hondo in seattle

I just reread the first few pages of this thread. It's funny how some people were so cocksure Incognito wasn't coming to the Bills. We could all be more open-minded. Richie behaved reasonably well when he was last in Buffalo. Played reasonably well too. Some people think Ray Rice and AP deserve second-chances. Vick got his second-chance. Why not Incognito whose 'crimes' were less serious? I'm guessing & hoping he learned a valuable lesson during the scandal and the year-plus out of football. If not, we can always cut him. Desperation drives people to do things they don't normally do and right now we're desperate at guard.

I'm happy with the off-season coaching moves. Considering who was available, we did well. I'd keep CJ. I know some people say Roman prefers a power running game but I think the guy just knows how to draw up plays with actual running lanes. I'd love to see what CJ could do in Roman's offense and I don't think he'd be super expensive. And I'd love to keep Hughes if the price is right. It's impressive when 3 out of 4 guys on your DL go to the Pro Bowl and the guy who didn't had double digit sacks. Rex runs an aggressive defense and I want him to have lots of weapons. But Hughes could get hot on the open market. I'd love to see us acquire Revis but not if it breaks the bank (and it probably would). Beyond that, my big wish is offensive linemen. Lots of 'em. Let them compete. My biggest off-season curiosity is what the Bills will do at QB. Sign an available FA? Trade for a QB? If so who did we give up and who do we get? Do we draft a QB? Do we trade up in the draft to get one? This off-season will be interesting but it definitely won't work out in a way that we all get everything we wish for.

I agree and, thanks to you, he is now.

I largely gave Marrone a pass for last year and only really started to worry about him this year when our offense was stagnant. Marrone's supposed to be a proven OC and OL coach and yet we stunk like a rotting camel corpse in the desert with a belly full of poop in the areas he was supposed to excel at. I was neither happy nor sad when he quit - only surprised. But as more stories came out, the more I started to realize his departure was a good thing. And now looking at the staff Rex has put together, I really think the Bills are in better hands. I know a lot of folks hated the Marrone hiring from the beginning and it seems events have proven them right.

If I was a HC and Manning was my QB, then the QB position would be the last of my worries. It's a team sport and Manning's teams have been inconsistent in the playoffs. Put Manning on the Pats and he'll collect rings.

I agree - there are many great QBs who have never played on a SB winning team. I remember Archie playing and that man was talented. Unfortunately, I don't think he ever played on a team that finished over .500 because the talent around him wasn't very good. If not for his sons, he'd be forgotten. I don't think Archie deserves to be in the "GOAT" conversation but he was certainly an elite QB.

I'm not going to argue stats or accomplishments. Those have a lot to do with the coaching staffs and surrounding talent. Just watching these guys in their prime - except Unitas who was already old when I got interested in football - I decided to vote for Manning. His command of the offense, ability to read the defense, and ball placement really stand out. Other guys I considered were Brady, Montana (who, though talented, really excelled because of the West Coast offense) and Marino. Marino's quick release and accuracy have to be admired. I can't say Kelly is underrated but people tend to remember his toughness and leadership. Fact is, he had a great arm too. Dan Fouts was another guy with a great arm who deserves to be on this list. He was piling up yards before all the rule changes made it easy. Troy Aikman didn't always impress in the regular season but had an annoying knack for shining when the spotlight was on.

How did the Lee hiring work out last time? Fitz had about as good a year as you could expect from someone with his physical limitations: 3400 yards and 24 TDs. Have you ever read Lee's bio? This guy has done a lot of good work in his long career. If Rex hadn't hired him, somebody else would have. I'm not arguing that Lee will do great work with us - I don't know enough to vouch for him. But his resume says this isn't a crony hire.

No HS kid in the country has NFL skills. So you're trying to guess who will develop the talent and who won't. It's awfully speculative. Anyway, HS kids are ranked on their college potential, not their pro potential. Looking back, therefore, I'd give Johnny Manziel a 5 star rating as a HS kid for his college potential - but a 1 star rating for NFL potential. They're not the same.

BB is a genius, but not for not calling a timeout. Whatever his reasoning was, the Seahawks could have easily scored on that play and left the Pats would have been left very little time to produce a FG to tie the game. If Butler hadn't made a great read and pick, BB would be second-guessed. Butler is the hero at the end, not BB. That said, BB is a great coach despite Spy- and Deflate-Gates and I'm looking forward to his retirement.

If someone on the Bills staff deflated balls, I'd expect a slap on the wrist. But the Bills don't have Spy-Gate in their past nor a reputation as a team that pushes the limits. Clearly, a lot of anti-Patriot vitriol is jealousy. While some teams just want to win one Super Bowl and would really be content just to get to the playoffs, it's tough to watch the Patriots own their division and collect multiple SB rings. Nonetheless, the context of the deflated balls makes a difference. The Pats are not first-time offenders. Josh Gordon's offense was minor. He drank some alcohol on a plain ride. But his penalty is harsh because of the pattern he's developing. I personally think the same logic should be applied here.

A couple hypotheticals... Although I've been a Bills fan almost since the Bills began, if I had been drafted by the Pats and paid millions by the Pats, I'd give a shout out to Pats fans too. If Gronk had been drafted by the Bills, I'd be a Gronk fan. While I prefer my Bills to be classy, humble, high-character guys, I'll root for anyone who helps the Bills win.

It's hard to generalize about any fan base. I live in Seattle too and most the fans I know are both knowledgeable and classy. Certainly there are a number of people - often transplants from other parts of the country or world - who have jumped on the bandwagon since they started winning. But wouldn't that happen in Buffalo if the Bills started winning? Maybe you just hang out with the wrong people. I rooted for Seattle because (1) I wanted the tribe I live with to be happy, and (2) their opponents were the Pats who have already had more than their fair share of success. Sure, Sherman mocking Revis was sad, but do you really think any NFL roster of 53 players is replete with high character players?

Rex had all-stars on his coaching staff in NJ, how did that work out? I think it's often the case that coaches get fired because they don't have enough talent on the field. GMs would rather blame the coaches then themselves. But I'm with you half-way on this. The Bills have tended to be cheap with coaches. It's good to see Pegula open up his bank account to bring in Rex and Roman especially. If his money can attract good players and good coaches both - we're going to the Super Bowl.

Then again, look at the players Tannebaum and Idzik acquired for him. You can't blame a poker player for the hand he's dealt, just how he plays it.

I'm not sure why you say "his teammates HATE him," when the article you link says this: None of his teammates talked about disliking Manziel personally. In fact, a "good guy" theme is prevalent with him. Some players vouch for his work ethic. Left guard Joel Bitonio said "you can tell" Manziel wants to be good and "works his tail off" in the weight room.

Yeah, I'm with North Buffalo on this. I appreciate that our Jets visitor offered his personal POV and while I'm sure there are nuggets of truth and valuable insight in here, something doesn't quite add up. If Rex is so poor at accountability, how is it that his defense the past 6 years is 2nd best in the NFL? Why were his defenses at Baltimore so dominant? Rex, despite his flaws, has in fact proven this ability to run a defense. The key questions now, I think, are: can Whaley find him sufficient offensive talent? Can Roman take that talent and put together a productive offense? If you believe the answer to these questions are affirmative, the Bills will be in the playoffs.

I admit I was on that bandwagon. Marrone was right. I was wrong.

Although I agree that the chances of EJ becoming a "franchise QB" aren't great, let's remember the glass is half full. Sadly, the history of the Buffalo Bills hasn't been blessed with good QBs - in contrast to our good luck with RBs. EJ is far from the worst QB to ever line up under center in a Bills uni. We went 2-2 with EJ this past season. If the Pats had tried to win the last game, we would have gone 6-6 with Orton. While Orton had flashes, in the end the two QBs were comparably mediocre. My point is that Roman, a run oriented OC anyway, just might be able to cobble together an offense with an EJ who's only slightly improved over the 2014 version. Of course, we all hope we draft the next Russell Wilson. But even if EJ starts next year, I won't go apoplectic with despair and frustration. I'm fully in wait-and-see mode.

I'm with you guys on this. I never felt Ruben was elite. Maybe my memory is off but I think I remember him collecting quite a number of yellow flags.

I think the best thing for Hackett right now would be to get a couple years seasoning as a QB (or other position) coach working under a top-flight OC. I'm not sure that his two years working with DM in the Bills organization really prepare him to be successful in the NFL. But Nate is smart and enthusiastic and could be a good OC some day.

You don't think pairing arguably the best coach with arguably the best QB has anything to do with their dynasty? Not to mention a good FO. The Pats are schmucks for cheating but I doubt if cheating has garnered them very many wins.

If there's any doubt what his duties will be there, here's what Bradley said about hiring Marrone, "He purely is, in talking to him, about wanting to help the offensive line get better." I guess when Marrone quit, the world looked like a big blooming orchard with all sorts of delicious fruit for him to pick from. In the end though, there was only one choice actually available to him: sour grapes. What's sad is that supposedly he was trying to be loyal to his coaches by asking for extensions. Now many of them are unemployed. His decision adversely effected a number of people, not just himself. The decisions we make when ego runs away from reason!

I agree. She didn't come across as very informed. Sounds like a very nice lady, though. I expect the football knowledge will develop with time. (I wonder how much any of the owners actually know when they first buy teams?).

As I've listened to the players and coaches over the past couple years, there are a couple themes in the commentary about EJ: 1. He doesn't have an accuracy problem so much as he has a timing problem. The poor timing makes his accuracy look bad. 2. He also has a problem with confidence. It's not a given that Lee can fix either of these. But Lee's been working with QBs since 1975 so I'm guessing he's had to deal with both issues many times before. Let's hope his treasury of experience can lead to improvements in EJ's game.