hondo in seattle

I'm not sure why you have to be rude and call those who don't want to release Tyrod, "fanboys." Ad hominem attacks don't add to the pleasant Bills camaraderie we share here nor to the logic of your argument. But I actually agree with you - to a degree. I think there was a lot of chemistry last year between Roman's play designs, Lynn's play calls, Shady's ability as a running back, and Tyrod's contribution as a dynamic dual threat QB. The Bills scored 27 points per game when TT was QB and Lynn OC. That'll be hard to equal in 2017. So I don't think the offense will be better this upcoming year. I'm not confident this year's offense will be built around the talents of the players we have as effectively as last year's offense. We might actually see more of TT's weaknesses in 2017 and less of his strengths. It's a worry and I hope I'm wrong. But I think the O would regress more without Tyrod than with him. And I'm hoping that an expected decline in offensive scoring will be offset by a stingier defense. QB is such an important position you've got to play the best one you can find. Right now, I don't see any better options than Tyrod. So call me a "fanboy" too if it makes you feel better, but I think TT's worth the cap cost and ought to start till we find someone better.

I voted TT because I see enough good in him that I'd rather have him than the NFL alternatives. Of the college QBs you have on the list, maybe one of them will become a standout NFL QB. But even QBs drafted in the first round have a low success rate in the big league. I'm not smart enough to guess which one might beat the odds.

Maybe Tyrod didn't win a lot of games for us. But last year, the D lost us a lot of games. We had a chance to make the playoffs with a decent D, despite Taylor's flaws. Does Tyrod play like a SB QB? Of course not. But watching Cardale in the season finale scared the heck out of me. I'd hate to see him line up under center this upcoming season. You have to start winning to build a winning culture and Tyrod will win more games than Cardale. I see the other point of view, but I'd rather go 8-8 or 9-7 and extend the streak than 2-14 with the bonus of a high draft position. We have the #10 pick this year. A lot of good NFL QBs have been picked #10 or later. And I actually think MAYBE this team could eke into the playoffs with TT as QB with our new coaching staff.

I agree with this. And yet I wouldn't want him anywhere OBD.

Most of the fans who want to keep Tyrod don't actually think he's good. We just think he's better than other available options and ought to keep him until we do find someone better. There are a couple counter arguments that make some sense. 1. Cut Tyrod to free up cap space to sign a better FA QB - or trade for a better QB. But this only makes sense if there's an available QB out there you want. I personally don't see one. 2. Cut Tyrod and tank the season in order to draft high next year's draft. This is dangerous and irresponsible. We still might not get a good QB. And to tank this season requires us to jettison all our talented vets to make our team complete crap. So even if we did successfully draft a good QB next season, they'd be surrounded by the lousy players who couldn't win the year before. We'd still be a losing franchise. I personally think it makes more sense to try to win now with Tyrod while looking for his eventual replacement in the draft either this year or next, or both.

How about if we gave the Bears a 6th round draft pick and they sent us Cutler and a 5th rounder?

I think it's called hedging your bets. No matter what happens now, he can claim he was right. If we cut every player who's not SB quality, we'll having trouble lining 11 up.

Marv once distinguished between 'character' and 'football character.' I don't remember exactly how he defined football character but we can all make a good guess: * practices hard * studies the playbook; knows his assignments * never late for meetings or practices * lays it all on the field during games * doesn't let his teammates down * no whining, complaining and other negativity when talking with teammates I don't know Brady the man enough to judge his off-field character. But he has 'football character' as did most of the Bills during Marv's tenure.

That's kind of like saying post-college track athletes either have it or don't - and don't need coaches anymore. Lots of coaches - Bill Walsh, for example - are/were really big on coaching technique at the pro level. No college athlete is a perfectly polished gem when they enter the NFL. I do think, though, there's a certain amount of innate accuracy that can't be changed. Some of accuracy is purely genetic. But completion rates go up when QBs improve their footwork, throwing mechanics, ability to read defenses, progressions, pocket presence, etc. This is where QB gurus can help.

Great eulogy. This is the second time you put tears in my eyes. Best wishes.

I guess I'm a simple guy with a simple mind. Somehow, as much as I respect Brady as a player, I find the idea of naming a cockroach after him amusing.

Why would you fire "everyone" in the front office? Please evaluate each individual at OBD. Tell me their assigned responsibilities and why they're failing. I guess tough talk feels good when you're frustrated but a "fire everyone" approach isn't really rational.

This may not be the best thread idea ever but I'm tired of finding yet another Tyrod or Whaley thread every other day. Thought I'd contribute something different.

A zoo in Atlanta bet a zoo in New England over the results of the Super Bowl. The losing zoo would have to name a baby animal at the zoo after the winning team's QB. So the Atlanta Zoo just announced that they've named a baby Madagascar Hissing Cockroach, "Tom Brady." Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches are one of the biggest cockroaches in the world. They are mostly vegetarian, dislike sunlight, and hiss loudly. On a similar note, for a mere $10, you can name a cockroach at the Bronx Zoo after an ex. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/atlanta-zoo-welcomes-baby-cockroach-003949458.html;_ylt=AwrTccnv46NYb3MAg6oPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw-- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/29/this-zoo-lets-you-name-a-cockroach-after-your-ex-for-10/ http://bronxzoo.com/roach

This is my reason for voting Sabres.

Oddly, I think we should keep Taylor despite his flaws because I'm not confident that better options are available. At the same time, I'm actually afraid Taylor's overall productivity will regress. Taylor was not a great passer last year and will probably never be a great one. But the way Roman and Lynn integrated him into the run game was brilliant. TT played a large role in making the run game as productive as it was. I worry that the new regime won't use him as well in the run game and I doubt they'll succeed in making him a better passer. While we have seen late bloomers in the NFL (e.g. Jim Plunkett), it's probably not likely at this point in Taylor's career that he becomes more accurate or learns to better find open guys. Geez, I hope I'm wrong.

Here's the thing I don't understand. The team has hovered around .500 the past two seasons. There seems to be a consensus that Rex underperformed and deserved to be fired. In other words, we have a better .500 roster but bad coaching resulted in a disappointing W-L record. If we have a better than .500 roster, why do so many people want Whaley fired? And if we have such a poor roster as some insist, why did we fire the coach that got the team to over-perform and play at a .500 level? Just looking at the results on the field the past two seasons, either Whaley sucked or Rex sucked. They didn't both suck.

Yeah I agree. From what we saw of Cardale last season, Tyrod is $17 million better than CJ.

Because Rich Wagner composed that dramatic classical piece famously used in the helicopter scene in Apocalypse Now It wasn't a good joke but I'm glad someone got it.

Ad hominem attacks don't improve the logic of your argument. And they don't improve the enjoyment some of us feel visiting this board and sharing our hopes and disappointments with like-minded fans. Is it really so difficult to be both nice and respectful with this brotherhood (and sisterhood) of fellow Bills supporters?

This seems reasonable at first blush. And I like this thread. The dramatic changes to our coaching staff rightly made the headlines, but the success of our 2017 season will also hinge greatly on the changes to the roster.

I agree - not with the mad part but the rest of this. I was encouraged by CK's play last year but not impressed and confident enough to commit to him as our starting LT.

You're right. That's why I would have voted for him. But the argument you could make is that those teams would have won even more games if TO had been a better teammate. Would a strong, team-first coach like Vince Lombardi have wanted Jerry Rice on his team? Absolutely. Jerry was an amazing individual talent and a good teammate who inspired his fellow players to better themselves with his work ethic. Would Lombardi have wanted TO? I'm not so sure.

I lived in San Francisco when TO was there. And TO quickly built a reputation as a me-first, disruptive kind of guy. He might have behaved well with the Bills but he did not earlier in his career. Part of the impact you have as a player is the impact you have on your teammates. Some players - like Jim Kelly - get 'bonus points, for their leadership. I can see why certain selectors would assess 'penalty points' to TO for his anti-leadership traits so to speak. I hope/think these selectors don't intend to keep TO out of the HOF forever. I'm guessing they're just denying him the honor of early entry. TO will eventually get in. Btw, I personally would have voted for TO in his first year of eligibility. There was just too much undeniable talent there, too much production. I get it's not fair to compare receivers of different eras, but I've got to point this out: TO has 3 times as many 1000 yard seasons as John Stallworth and Lynn Swann combined and they're both in the HOF. Nonetheless, I can't vilify those on the other side of the argument. Performance in the huddle, locker room, meeting rooms and on the practice field count. These also effect a team's chances of winning.

If we sign Rich Wagner, we can play Ride of the Valkyries every time the Bills score.