hondo in seattle

I think this whole Whaley story is like an iceberg. 10% is above water and visible. 90% is out of sight. The visible part is Doug's 30-34 record, his miss on EJ (was it really his?), and some of his other personnel mistakes. I have no idea what's under the surface but I'm confident there's more to the story than we know.

If the Bills go 10-6 this year with the roster Whaley built, do we regret his termination?

I wonder the same thing. There can't be a lot of guys with both the ability to do the work and the willingness (given all the travel). Wouldn't have been smarter to just fire DW and let the new guy figure out who to keep and who to ditch?

I am glad that Terry is not complacent with mediocrity. He made two major decisions lately that reflect that: changing the HC and GM. HC. McD looks to be a good hire. He's passionate, detail-oriented and has a background about as good as the typical coordinator turned HC. But we still don't know if he's any good as the top man. GM. We don't know who the new guy is. I can't say I'm happy with the direction of the Bills until I know the direction McD and the new GM are taking us. Time will tell.

Watching the Pegula presser, I got the impression that Whaley's firing was about more than just his mistakes in the draft. Maybe I'm reading between the lines incorrectly but Terry didn't once knock the roster and seemed cautiously happy with this particular draft. I think there's something else.

Best post in the thread. Good job, Kirby. On the one hand, I'm glad Terry isn't pleased with Whaley's 30-34 record. On the other hand, you can't put all the blame on the scouting staff. Our coaching hasn't been good during that span and you don't know how much DW and the team followed the recommendations of the scouts. The bigger issue, of course, is about empathy. I'll never celebrate someone else's adversity. I don't think regional scouts get paid a lot of money and now their families will suffer. We'll see in the months/years ahead whether or not this was a good day for the Buffalo Bills. But it was definitely not a good day for those families.

I know he played hurt but I didn't see anything last season to make me think Williams is a future starter. I didn't think he even looked like a viable #2. I'm hoping his sophomore year is more successful but I don't share your confidence. I'd be looking through FAs for a RB if I became the new GM. I'd also be looking at safeties and LBs. And if any veteran RTs became available, I'd be all over it.

I thought the very same thing when I first read the speculation. If Beane really tipped off the Bills, it would have been a very low integrity thing to do. Beane was getting paid by the Panthers to help the Panthers. If he's going to help another club, he can't in good integrity cash his Panther paychecks. But this is all just speculation.

I don't see a lot of laughing on their website. In fact, there's actually some informed and intelligent commentary along with the usual fan nonsense you see everywhere. The AFCE is a hard place for GMs and coaches. New England helps make them all look bad.

I think Doug went out with a bang. Competently trading up or down as the situation dictated, the Bills were able to get the players they wanted at the positions they needed.

That's the thing. I'm all in favor of firing Whaley if they bring in someone better. I'm going to learn to hate his firing if they bring in someone worse.

So the guy who was fired by the 49ers for his drinking problem? Then fired by the Seahawks for his drinking problem? Then fired by the Skins for his drinking problem? The same guy who says he's not an alcoholic? He's been helped before, but to no avail. He's runs a consultant service now and that seems to be a better fit for his personality.

I'm with this.

I also think DW got a bit of a raw deal for the same reasons. I believe he has legit cause to feel bitter right now. Then again - until maybe this year - he hasn't been good at drafting players, though he has been good at acquiring productive FAs. He wasn't the worst GM in the league but he wasn't the best either. If the Pegulas find a better GM, I'm very happy with the move. Interestingly, Pegula wouldn't give any reason at all for the firing, not even a vague 'the roster needs to get better.' So I wonder if there's more to the story than we know.

Ironic. He just hired his first HC and many of us are excited about McD. And he just had maybe his best draft as graded by the draft gurus. And he gets fired. Best wishes, Doug, where ever you go as long as it's not New England.

As someone else mentioned in a different thread. We're not drafting combine warriors and seem to prefer guys who were actually productive in college: 12/26/16 - 2016 ALL-ACC FOOTBALL HONORABLE MENTION (7 OR MORE VOTES/COACHES): LB Matt Milano, Sr., Boston College (9),...Milano earned All-ACC honorable mention honors for the second consecutive season after starting all 12 games as a senior in 2016. The Florida native is fourth on the team with 55 tackles and is tied for the team-lead with 40 solo stops. Milano is fourth on the team with 9.5 tackles-for-loss and totaled five sacks on the season. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=127726&draftyear=2017&genpos=OLB Doesn't look like a starter but could be a good special-teamer and useful role player.

Well we knew that no matter how this draft played out, a large segment of Bills fans would be unhappy and calling for Whaley's head. As it turns out, we addressed 3 of our biggest needs drafting players highly rated by draft gurus - some of whom have NFL pedigrees themselves. No matter. The draft sucks, Whaley sucks, the team sucks. Maybe we should see some of these players play before turning in our Bills Mafia membership cards.

Yeah, it's feeling good right now. Two rounds down and we picked up two probable starters and an extra first rounder.

I hope so. I've always hated drafting combine warriors. Obviously, a NFL prospect ought to combine good measurables with good production. But, between the two, I like to see the production. Funny because this is exactly what I thought when I first heard the pick.

I'm guessing after the 3 top WRs were picked ahead of us, the Bills were only thinking CB at #10. And in their minds there wasn't a huge difference between the #1 CB and the #5 CB in this draft. They also knew this was a strong draft class overall and that they'd have a good player waiting for them at #27. We all want to see our team sign the big names but getting extra 1st and 3rd round picks is huge.

I'm just not into this lover/hater dichotomy. Whaley is a mediocre GM - or has been thus far. He's been good in free agency and poor in the draft. He's not the worst - and certainly not the best - GM in the league. Certainly we can make the argument that the ultimate goal is Super Bowl and Whaley has not (yet?) built a Super Bowl roster. But with better coaching, this team would have been in contention for the playoffs last season. Whaley's been in charge of the roster - and nothing else - and he's given us an average-ish one. There are a number of fan bases out there that would be happy just to attain average-ness right now. Then again, there are franchises where average is unacceptable.

We got the #2 (according to PFF coverage grades) corner in the draft - a big need for us. And we got an extra 1st round pick and 3rd round pick. I call it a good day. Here's PFF's summary: White’s coverage grade of 89.8 was the second-highest coverage grade for all draft eligible CBs. White allowed a completion percentage of 41.7 percent on throws into his coverage in 2016. He missed just five tackles in 2016, ranking in the top 21 percent of all cornerbacks with at least 500 defensive snaps. With the loss of Stephon Gilmore in free agency, White is an important addition that is versatile enough to play both the slot and on the outside. https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-bills-select-tredavious-white-with-27th-overall-pick/

I get what you're saying. But if a GM is convinced a certain S, CB, or TE is a future HOFer, he may indeed trade up to get him.

It's an interesting read but I don't know if I trust the methodology. Any draft will produce a bunch of JAGs. If your team is bad enough, the JAGs will start. What you want to draft is Pro Bowlers. Whaley's drafts aren't producing enough Pro Bowl seasons. I'm not saying DW is horrible. The hyperbole here can be a little crazy: worst GM in the league, worst in history. DW's actually shown a talent with FAs. But as for the draft? Subpar so far. Let's hope this one's better.

Leroi says a lot of things and once in a while, he's right. As others have pointed out, it's all just speculation at this point. Even DW and McD don't know if they're trading down. It all depends on (1) who drops to them, and (2) what offers they get as the draft unfolds. Until they can compare #1 to #2, they won't make a decision. Given how deep this draft class is supposed to be, I'd love to see the Bills trade down if the offer is right.