hondo in seattle

There's no doubt that Payton has been part of Brees success. Then again, that's true of any great QB. They all have mentors and coaches who help them along the way. I also think his own talents had a lot to do with Drew's 29 of 30 performance this week and all his statistical achievements over the years. Everyone defers to Brady as the GOAT but I think Brees is in the conversation. Being a Boilermaker, I've followed his career with some interest. He clearly grew his first few years and finally achieved his first 100+ passer rating only in his fourth year with the Chargers - before working with Payton btw. I'd like to believe Josh Allen will have the same kind of trajectory. Some QBs continue to learn and grow once they reach the NFL and don't reach their potential until their 3rd or 4th season. Or in Jim Plunkett's case, his 12th! I think Allen's best is yet to come. And since this is a Rivers thread, let me add Rivers is clearly a good QB who hasn't always been surrounded by the best players and coaches. He reminds me a little of Archie Manning in that respect - a talented guy who was underrated because of shortcomings in the surrounding cast.

This game and the Pats games are the only two games I've gone into expecting a loss. But if Josh plays like he did last Sunday...

My estimate is 33%. However, if we do win it will be because of these two things.

I don't know, PP, we must hang out in different circles. I know a lot of Hawk fans who are both knowledgeable and devoted. I'm not claiming Seahawk fans are equal to Bills fans but I do think they rate above the NFL average.

It's not fair but Allen may make or break Beane. If Allen turns out to be the next coming of Jim Kelly, Beane's job is secure and we'll win a bunch of game. If Allen doesn't progress beyond his "below-average" current self, Beane's in trouble regardless of the success of the rest of his picks. Bill Walsh once famously recommended Trent Edwards to Marv Levy. Even the best talent evaluators miss sometimes. Luckily, Walsh didn't miss with his first QB: Joe Montana. I'm hoping Beane didn't miss with his first because if he did, he might not have a 2nd chance in this Not-For-Long business.

Agreed. It didn't look like a great roster when we were winning and looks less like a great roster after the Philly loss. But taking a big picture, 2018 was the year Beane finished gutting the roster and started drafting for the future. Through the draft and free agency, the 2019 roster is somewhat better but we still have a way to go. And while our draft capital isn't spectacular next year, we do have a ton of cap money. Once I figured out what Beane was doing, 2020 always seemed like the target year. This 2019 can get to the playoffs but it can't go deep into the playoffs.

Last year we were dead last in active cap spending. I felt sorry for McD going into each game with that bargain basement roster. But you could clearly see how Beane was setting up a foundation for the future - one that needed a QB, draft capital, and cap space for free agency. This year we're something like 23rd in active cap spending (depending slightly what source you use). We're still in the bottom half of the league in roster spending thus - theoretically - in the bottom half in roster talent. Yet we're 5-2. In 2020, we'll be 3rd in available cap space and have a couple extra draft picks. By next year - if Beane is good at his job - we should be able to field a contender. Especially if Allen take a step forward. We can already see McD's competency as a coach. Each year we win more game than our roster would indicate. When given lemons, he makes lemonade. By next year, we should have a really good idea if Beane knows how to build a roster.

Only 15 QBs in the 100 year history of the NFL passed for more yards than Bledsoe. And he's a 4 time Pro Bowler. He outperformed most 1st round QBs. He's not a HOFer but he's far from being a bust. I guess he's a disappointment if you have really high/unrealistic expectations of QBs drafted early.

The closest I've come to watching live sports on tv in Europe is watching Neil Armstrong walking - live - on the moon. God, I'm old!

Exactly right! I'm kind of mildly amused by the table busting and - now - hatchet throwing. But Buffalo isn't called the city of good neighbors for nothing.

Agreed. I pull my hair out - what little I have left - when Josh throws picks or overthrows deep routes. But overall I'm enjoying the ride and love the kid's attitude.

If I did the math right, 538's odds give us 10.58 wins. They rounded up to 11.

You're right but... You want a QB that plays well all game, not just good enough in the 4th quarter to produce the win because the defense hasn't given up a bunch of points. Personally, I think a QB should be both efficient and productive. Josh's passer rating is around 80 right now. That's not very efficient. He's throwing for about 220 yards and 1 TD per game. He hasn't been very productive either. The good news is that Josh is clearly playing better than last season which makes me think/hope he hasn't yet hit his ceiling.

There's so much narrative out there that the Miami game was somehow disappointing. 'Bills survive scare by woeful Fins and escape New Era Field with an ugly win.' That game was, in fact, a thing of beauty. No lost turnovers. Two pretty TD passes - including one that capped a killer 98 yard drive. Five scoring drives altogether. Tre's pick and forced fumble. Hyde's KO return... The Bills don't have the talent level of the Patriots or some other teams in the NFL. But they do have some talent. And they play hard and persevere. Sunday enough Bills players made enough plays to give us our 5th win of the season. How many times in the past decades have we seen the D not deliver the turnover or the O fail to complete the pass to the end zone, leaving us with could-of and should-of beens? On Sunday, this team delivered.

I respect Brandt's opinion because of his background. He's probably forgotten more about football than I'll ever know. So I guess I'm encouraged that he thinks so highly of our D. But mostly I don't care. We all see the quality of this D each week. It's a really good D. Good enough to take us to the playoffs? Gil thinks so but we won't know until we know.

With Brown out and Foster possibly still less than 100%, we're not going to have much outside speed. Though I don't know how much that matters considering who we're playing and how little we've utilized our speed so far this year.

A weak armed QB who tends to force passes into coverage versus a strong armed QB who tends to force passes into coverage. I think we have the advantage.

This is an interesting breakdown - thanks! If we go 6-1 against the truly crappy teams but only 1-3 against the mediocre and good teams, we'll still finish 11-5. As a Bills fan, you can never take the playoffs for granted. But it's hard not to feel optimistic right now.

My wife noticed that I've been moping around a lot and has been encouraging me to start popping Xanax or see a shrink. But today I learned that I don't need to feel bad anymore about that 2017 draft. What a relief! I've been carrying around deep, dark feelings of disappointment, frustration and failure for the past two years now. Suddenly, today, I can finally smile again!

That made me smile. Reminded me there were some bright moments during the Dark Ages.

Moulds would be great for Daboll and Allen.

I saw the vid when you posted it. Thanks! Seems like Duke's transformed himself from an immature punk into a man - a hard-working, team-first, McD kind of man. In recent interviews, Duke shows that he's really grateful to be where he is right now and you can see why. It wasn't a short, straight, or easy road for him. Really rooting for him to continue to grow both as a man and as a player. And hoping to see him in the endzone every game!

Why is this a new thread? Our scoring woes are well-known and thoroughly discussed in other threads.

We clearly have a playoff caliber defense but the offense has to score more than 18 points per game. There are reasons for optimists to think the O will improve. The OL is still gelling. Singletary is going to start playing again. Zay's been replaced by Duke. Josh is going to improve as he gains in experience and as he develops chemistry with a new group of wideouts. And so on. While I'm hopeful (Napoleon once famously said: "A Bills fan is a dealer in hope"), I don't know how much the O will improve by the end of the year. I don't think it'll be enough for 13 wins or a deep push into the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong.

I get why folks are recommending Duff's and other places over the Anchor Bar. But why do people go to Independence Hall in Philly? Because it's the most beautiful building in the city? Or because it's where history was made?