agardin

Sorry, I really should have checked out the site before giving advice. The prices are very good. The prices are set by the sellers so I guess the people that own the tickets see that game as a dud and one that would be hard to onload. Therefore they are willing to take whatever they can get. I have used similar sites, and this one does look very legit. The only thing I would warn about is that there is usually a handling fee that could be around $15-20 or something like that. Even with that fee, the prices are still very good.

I thought it was odd that you would have problems getting tickets for this game and I don't know how many you are looking for but you can get two decent seat for basically face value through the team site or ticketmaster.

I don't have high hopes for this year, 5-10 with an improving team so I would gladly take the over on two wins. Here is the offshore betting site I use, I don't know if it will work in the US as I believe it is banned, I cut and pasted their future bets for the Bills. If you can get on the site they have the over under for wins for every team in the league http://www.bet365.com/home/default.asp? BUF Bills Book Closes Sep 12 10:00 Over 5.5 +125 Under 5.5 -155

I tried to find the stats for three and outs and couldn't but they were the worst in overall 3rd down conversions which essentially causes the same problem, namely a defense that is always on the field because the offense can't sustain drives. If the Bills were to move to even the middle of the pack for this stat the defense would be able to rest and still be able to play in the fourth quarter as opposed to being completely gassed and run over. 3rd down conversions http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third...-conversion-pct

The 'pretty good' part from the sales guy was his attempt to spin. However, he did say that sales were down, which does confirm your point. How much I guess we will see. I don't know if it is people not buying OBD hype or the lack thereof. Spiller is a flashy player but that is the only addition that I can see that would make people open their wallets. A real low profile hire as coach and GM, no big FA or new toy at QB and a pretty poor team last year would make this team a tough sell. ( please don't read the last line as if I would encourage those types of moves from a purely football standpoint) You are right about the economy and stuff, while not helpful, if this team was on its way to the playoffs I don't think selling season tickets would be an issue.

I purchased seasons tickets last week and asked the sales guy how it was going, he said pretty good but the numbers will likely be down from last couple of years. The last couple of years I think were near records for season tickets sales so, this team, poor economy and corportations slashing sales budgets will all have a negative effect.

Some variation of that was my first instinct. maybe Spiller wine dig that play To be honest,I could do without all the nicknames as well

I wonder if Kiffin's standard defense of shrugging his shoulders and saying he didn't do anything wrong will sway the judge.

You are correct. I know that it was written in regards to the Faneca signing a few years back and not about OTs. I used the term perceived scrubs without giving it much thought but the article is in regards to average OL. ( I wonder if the fans of the team that signed the player he mentioned were doing cartwheels in getting an average OL) We drafted a few interior lineman last year with fairly high picks that look to be pretty decent. In light of the article, was that a good move or would the Bills have been better off taking a prospective LT or RT with the Wood and Levitre picks? I am not sure, I think you need quality across the board and having a great OT next to a poor guard is not ideal. I suppose we could ask Adrian Peterson if he thought Hutchinson was a good pick up. In any event, it was an article that I happened to remember reading from a few years back and thought it would add to the discussion.

I hope you are right, I didn't agree him as a draft pick but if he can develop into a starting 3 down OLB that would justify the pick. I am hoping that Shawn Nelson is the real deal at TE and surprises, he could be a real asset given our QB situation, no better security blanket than a pass catching TE that can find the seems in a defense. Nelson should have more room to move with our RB trifecta and hopefully some good play action calls.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writ...ies1/index.html This is an article by Ross Tucker on how much difference there is between elite lineman and perceived scrubs. I remeber reading it a few years ago and I thought it would add a different perspective to the thread. I don't think I agree with him as one or two plays a game does make a difference in wins and losses. A third down conversion at the right time can mean the ball game; it is a game of inches after all.

Congrats, very cool present and certainly better than anything I have ever received. Although the bottle of Woodlands reserve bourbon was very good but it didn't last as long as a jersey would have.

I completely agree with you and that the Jets game should have been a forfeit at the very least, no chance of an undefeated season. I think what made people down play it was how they played for the rest of the season. I don't know if they continued to tape signs or not but the fact that they continued to dominate likely made people feel that the original infraction didn't mean much. I know this sort of thing happens quite a bit in the NFL where everyone is looking for an advantage but to actually tape them is a different matter IMO.

Bills v Raiders playoff game in 94, it was certainly the coldest Bills thing I have ever done. I believe it may have been one of the coldest game in NFL history. Anyway, what a game. I remeber being in the parking lot when a van pulls up, slides its doors open and four or five pieces of wood are tossed out. Lighter fluid follows and then a pack of matches. Four guys fall out of the truck and start drinking and playing hockey. I thought, this is Bills Football. The game was so cold, the guy sitting in front of me had a massive beard with icicles covering his entire face. He turned to me and pulled a bottle of Jack from his jacket through his beard ( think Dan Akroyd in Trading Places, hammered on the bus eating salmon) and said 'you're goin to need some of this' Awesome.

If Kris Jenkins is back and healthy, running the ball against the Jets will not be a great option either. I remember the Bills going for it on 4 and inches and running right at Jenkins. A 2 or 3 yard loss later I knew that Jauron was not the reincarnation of Walsh.

When do individual game seats go on sale for non season ticket holders? It is already a few weeks later than last year.

I totally agree, rotate it through the league and let everyone have a chance to put on a great show. It would be a nod to all of the fans in every city that supports their teams year in and year out. I know the game is more for coporate sponsors than the average person and that would likely remain the case. The SB is at a point where it is it's own force and the TV,Coporate sponsors and everyone else will turn up if you held it in a corn field in Iowa. The CFL used to hold the Grey Cup in indoor stadiums until recently, they started rotating it and playing some of the games outdoors and it would seem everyone loves it. It is mighty cold in November in Regina but it brings the game back to the elements in which the game was meant to be played. Then again, if I were commissioner I would ban all domes.

If ( a big if ) a new stadium was going to be built, why not right downtown Buffalo. There is plenty of space. Tourists who want to see the falls can hop on a tour bus, look at it for 30mins and then head back downtown for some wings. I love the Ralph but I wouldn't have put it where it is, in the middle of nowhere with no real transportation options but driving and with no surrounding restaurants and bars. Stick in a part of town where tailgaters can get to it easily, people staying in Hotels downtown can walk to it in 15 or 20 mins and use it as a sprinboard for other development in the city core. Cleveland did a nice job on their new stadium. I live in Toronto and go to 3-4 games a year, so if this doesn't make sense to the people that actually live in the area then let me know. If I recall there was a lot of stuff about a Bass Pro Shops coming to the waterfront and that was going to save a development deal a new stadium right downtown would be better...no?

A good perspective on OTAs http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...otas/index.html

Sorry I forgot to add, that in the examples you stated above, options, profit sharing ect. are dependant on future factors so they are by definition not gauranteed which I feel is different from NFL singing bonuses

No worries, we will agree to disagree on the signing bonus not being included to the salary. I am for the players in certain cases and the owners in others. Chris Johson should get a hefty raise and get as much of his salary up front in the guaranteed signing bonus (even though he has a contract). Then he should play out that new contract. I am totally against franchise tags and RFA which is another discussion all together. If Andre Johnson had a year or two left on his deal and if I were his GM I would re-up for 4-6 years and hand him over another chunk up front. He has too many years left in his current deal and I don't know if his holding out will work in his favour. If it does, and if this isn't addressed in the new CBA, then it will set precedent for all NFL contracts in the future.

I did answer both your questions, Yes ( if I saw the contracts the way you see them, which I obviously don't) and Yes to the second. I have to add context to my answers as I feel the questions do not represent the situation we are discussing. Since we are not in court I don't see the harm in that. Again comparing regular work situations with the NFL is going to cause problems. So we are clear. IMO-15 million to me has to be considered part of his salary and not a bonus that is above and beyond the contract. 5 million a year would be TOO LOW (YES questionA) for a player like Johnson and I would imagine that his contract would be renogiated by the Texans if that were the case. If I were paid 25% of my of my overall compensation for an 8 year contract in 2007and as such my 2007 salary was higher than the balance of the contract, then YES I would have consider that as part of the total renumeration/annual salary especially since I could be fired at anytime after signing Here is a yes or no question for you, A)Should the 15 million guaranteed money part of his overall contract/renumeration be included when considering his annual salary? This is fun and I am not trying to provoke or annoy anyone, it can be hard to get that when these discussions are written and not over a couple of beers.

I have received a signing bonus in the past and it was generous. I am a salaried employee and can be terminated at anytime I do not have an 8 year contract where that signing bonus made up a full 25% of my salary. Comparing my situation or anyone else that is not a professional athlete is completely off base and frankly rediculous. If he were actually paid 5 million a year I would agree with you but since he has been paid 15 million dollars as part of that contract I would say that number is not accurate. If you are maintaing that it is then we have a very different understandanding of the nature of NFL signing bonuses. It sounds like, correct me if I am wrong, you are comparing them with typical employer/employee contracts that are common in normal work environments. NFL signing bonuses are called such because the money that is paid is the guaranteed part of the contract and are front loaded often paid immediately when the client signs. Sometimes they are extremely large and have to be amortized over a couple of years but are guaranteed nonethelss. As for your second question. If I had a job where there was an 8 year contract in place but my employer was going to pay me a very large percentage of the contract upfront and call it a signing bonus then yes I would have to consider that part of my compensation. This is where we differ. I see the signing bonus as part of the overall contract where you seem to see it as unrelated to your annual salary and a bonus in the truest sense of the word. Above and beyond the contract.

This thread is great but it is causing my head to hurt. Andre Johnson's situation is crazy, because of performance he had his original deal torn up and given a new deal with 15 million guaranteed. Guaranteed is what it sounds like, the terms of the contract are for 8 years and a total of 60 million dollars. Because of the threat of injury, NFL contracts have a large % of the total value of the contract paid over the first few years and are guaranteed. He currently has a full five years left on his deal and he wants to renogatiate AGAIN. According to everyone in the league his case has no precedent because of how much time is left on his current deal. I know all of the above has already been said but....Everyone that argues that the owners can get out of any contract prior to the expiry of the contract so the overall contract is in their favour doesn't understand the concept of guaranteed signing bonuses. When you hear of crazy contracts ala Nate Clemens, the only thing that counts is the guaranteed money as it is the only thing that the player would be entitled to no matter what happens. I expect Drew Rosenhaus et al understands this. Andre's problem is that he renegotiated too soon, at his behest. If he waited until Larry Fitzgerald had signed his deal he would be the top paid receiver in the game with a ton of it guaranteed. The trade off is that if he got hurt before he resigned he would be SOL. That is business and that is life. If I were a GM of an NFL team I would gladly renogiate rookie deals for the likes of Chris Johnson, Andre and Jason Peters for that matter when their original deal wasn't close to be fair. Once a deal is renegotiated I would never renegotiate a second time within the first few years of resigning. Houston may have a problem on their hands as he is their best player and I would say the best at his position. If they choose not to resign him, which there will be huge pressure to do in this year of labour strife. They will have a disgruntled player who may or may not turn up, if they trade him they will never get the level of compensation they deserve as his stock has fallen because of his situation. Rock and hard place if you ask me and also a good illustration of why the system doesn't really favour owners.

Right now I think it will be Trent, he did show some promise before getting pummeled over the last couple of years. If he can get his confidence back behind a strong running and short passing game we will move up these rankings.