billsfan1959

Would you like to have a discussion on how this statistic is falsely being used? Or do you just not care?

This is a discussion most people do not want to engage in openly and honestly. There are many issues that lead to the perceptions so many in this country have. Unfortunately it is easy for people to fall along two lines: Stereotyping blacks as a group or stereotyping police as a group. Neither is close to being accurate or helpful.

Perhaps, if you were in a situation of, literally, having to fight with a suspect to get him under control, you would think a little differently.

When I hear statements like this, I want to hear specifics, not generalizations. Please tell us, specifically, what is happening to blacks on a regular basis and by whom? I may or may not agree with you and we can discuss it from there. Like I used to tell my children as they were growing up: (1) You can believe anything you want, just be able to articulate what it is you believe and why you believe it. (2) If you want to be part of the solution to a problem, then be able to accurately define what the problem is. So, when you say, "what happens, and continues to happen on a regular basis to blacks in America," what are you saying and what is your definition of the problem?

Do you just hide in your basement all day and night dreaming up worst case scenarios? Massacring large crowds of civilians? Are you kidding me? Is this your rioting version of millions are going to die? You have to be severely limited in critical thinking skills to believe the pepole who are engaging in criminal activity give a s**t about George Floyd, body cams, review boards, etc. They are not the people who care about such things. They are criminals acting in their own pathetic self-interests. You know how you can tell the difference? The prople marching peacefully are protestors. The ones who are looting, vandalizing, setting fires, assaulting people, and killing people are criminals. And yes they need to be stopped. You are a hand wringing, fear mongering, perpetually angry little man whose every post is nothing more than a hysterical, child-like tantrum.

Haha! Fixed. It's been so long since it has been a relevant topic, I forgot how to spell it

Says the guy who in April was hiding under his bed furiously typing posts about the millions who were going to die from the coronavirus...

WTF???

Now, now, so emotional....

You are not alone. I have family members and good friends with which I have always been able to engage in reasonable discussions / debates. I literally cannot have a discussion with any of them any more about politics. Their hatred for Trump is so great that every attempt to introduce anything that might contradict their views is met with pure, raw, angry emotion. I just don't talk politics with any of them anymore.

Thanks for responding, Tibs. I appreciate it. You asked where I got the statistic that blacks, who make up less than 13% of the population, account for approximately 24% of police killings. There are few databases that track this. The Washington Post has been keeping track of police shootings since 2015 https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ and it pretty much tracks the same as other sites that have tried to break this information down. I 100% agree on the drug arrest issue. There are reasons that actually stem from good intentions for the disparity of arrests, convictions, and incarcerations of blacks for crack cocaine. I personally believe those "good intentions" have had a disastrous consequences for young black men. I would be happy to discuss that in a separate discussion. For this discussion, the statistic I provided is really the basis for the "blacks are killed at a disproportionate rate" by police officers and that "blacks have a greater chance of being killed by police than other races." It is not a breakdown of the actual cases to determine the circumstances and motivations. It is simply the statistic. However, it is a little misleading. If you look at the Uniform Crime Reports for any given year (Here is a link to 2018, as I don't believe 2019 is available yet: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018 ), you will find that when it comes to violent crime, blacks account for approximately: 53% of all murder arrests 29% of all rape arrests 54% of all robbery arrests 34% of all aggravated assult arrests 32% of all other assault arrests 54% of all weapons arrests 92-95% of all killings of blacks As you can see, they are disproportionately represented in all these crimes. Now this is not meant to infer from these stats that there must be something inherently wrong with the black race. That is as ridiculous as arguing that there is something inherently wrong with all of law enforcement because of the stat I quoted to begin with. The point of this is that it is a statistical fact that the vast majority of violent crime in most cities is in the lower socio-economic areas that also happen to have significant black populations. There are a lot of reasons for this and that is one area we should be having a national discussion on. When any police department allocates its resources, they allocate them according to need, with the areas having the most violent crime receiving the most resources. So, in effect, a disproportionate amount of law enforcement resources are dedicated to black communities. This leads to a disproportionate amount of interactions between police and black men, particularly within the context of a higher potential for emotionally charged situations and escalation of violence. There is so much more, but I will stop here. I wish this country could engage in real honest dialogue about this. There is enough culpability to go around. However, solutions to the problems cannot begin until there are honest and accurate definitions of those problems

I don't get it. How can they hail a group that doesn't exist?

Your own words, Warrren. You are welcome to believe whatever you want, no matter how uninformed and biased I might believe it to be. At least have the balls to own it - rather than insinuate in post after post and then run from it when you are called out. Stand up for what you believe there, Warren.

There.....

I have no problem with Trump delivering a message of compassion or acknowledging that there are people who genuinely are distraught with what they perceive as racial injustice. So, I don't have a problem with what @Magox is saying. My argument with you is the beliefs you hold and the manner in which you want the message delivered. You believe there is systemic racism in the law enforcement profession and you believe the message of racism is not one of discussing "perceptions," but rather of stating it as "fact." That is my argument with you. You literally believe, as you previously stated, that the law enforcement profession, as a whole, is filled with people who have no problem killing people, condoning it, or covering it up, as long as those people are black. As someone who has spent the last 35+ years of my life as a law enforcement officer working in the arena of violent crime, and now as a consultant in violent crime, I have no tolerance for people like Officer Chauvin or for people like you who want to transfer his pathology onto the rest of us.

My point exactly. It is what you believe. Yet you can offer no proof that it is true. Unfortunately everyone in the law enforcement profession is painted with the same broad brush stroke. Kind of makes you exactly what you are railing against, don't you think?

Everyone knows racism exists to some degree. Everyone also knows that every person in this country, regardless of race or ethnicity, harbors biases and prejudices to some degree. That is not the same as saying that police departments are systemically racist and young black men cannot walk down the street without fear of being murdered by a police officer. It is not a fine line between the two. It is a quantum leap.

I think you do. There is no evidence in open source reporting other than the statistical fact that blacks, who make up less than 13% of the population, account for approximately 24% of police killings. That is the basic fact that all that "open source reporting" is based on. If there is any thing else, please share it. If not, tell us how that statistical fact alone, without actually studying each and every case, is enough to support your claim.

And this is the crux of the argument from people like you. The discussion must begin with the admisssion that law enforcement agencies are so pervasively racist that Officers will literally kill people, condone the killing of people, and cover up the killing of people as long as those people are black. Nevermind that there is no actual evidence that comes close to supporting this.

As I thought. You throw s**t out and never offer anything substantive. What is the "honesty" you are looking for? Please define it. And then tell us how that "honesty will stop people who truly have no problem looting stores, burning businesses and residences to the ground, and physically assaulting anyone in their way?

I agree that the feds should be the last line; however, it is clear the lack of a response at the local and state levels is just encouraging more. It has to end and I really don't know if it is goiong to happen if the feds don't step in. Tough call eithe way.

And here comes Warren with his "drive-by" shot of superficial analysis. Please, Warren, enlighten us all about the "in-between" options available to stop unchecked looting, vandalism, arson, assault, and muder. We'll await, what we are all sure will be, an intellectually stunning and in-depth plan.

And where are the growing calls for the Mayors of these cities, and the Governors of their states, to set curfews, call in the National Guard, and actually use law enforcement to stop this violence. They can literally do the same thing people are screaming for Trump to do. Could it be because it cannot be done without force and these Mayors and Governors want no part of having to answer for the first protester that gets injured or killed when they direct LE officers/National Guard to end it? Could it be because they would rather have Trump do it and then use it against him? Personally, I wish Trump would go ahead and take care of it because these Mayors and Governors don't have the balls to do it themselves. I would just like to see the "outrage" distributed a little more equally.

You are so completely wrong. If you want to present any actual evidence to support systemic racism in police departments, please do. If you want to have an honest discussion about this, I am more than willing. Why don't you write out, point by point, what constitutes systemic racism in many police departments, and let's discuss it like adults.

Most of it is organic. However, there is a segment that is organized and is well funded. That segment has one purpose and one purpose only: to stir the organic pot into an escalation of violence