billsfan1959

Trust me, it doesn't impact me at all. It was a simple question: Why not be positive? There was nothing in the post telling anyone how they should or shouldn't see things. As a matter of fact, I said that. I also made sure to say it was how I personally choose to see it and that, personally, I don't see how continuing to focus on the negatives is beneficial at this point. But people are free to do what they want. Cheers.

In reading through posts prior to the draft and since the draft, I really do not see anything new in regard to criticisms of Allen's abilities - it is all very well documented at this point. I do not begrudge anyone their opinion and I love healthy debates. However, he is a Buffalo Bill now and I personally don't see why anyone would want to continue focusing on the negatives. Once he gets on the field, there will be plenty of opportunities to analyze and discuss what he is doing well and what he is not. Until then, why not take a positive approach? Heaven knows I have endured enough misery with this team over the last fifty years I have followed them - I look forward to these small windows between the draft and the start of the season when I can be optimistic.

I don't believe it is a crusade by TBD. The majority of posters I have seen recognize Allen for what he is: a QB with an extremely high ceiling and an extremely low floor. Most just prefer to be positive at this point. There are a minority of posters who choose to be willfully ignorant of any deficiencies in Allen's game that could keep him from becoming a franchise QB - just as there are a minority of posters, such as the OP, who choose to believe there is nothing in Allen's game to suggest he could ever be a franchise QB. At this point, what happens on the field is the only thing that is going to change the minds of the people in either of those groups.

It does and, while it was my understanding there would be no math, I do believe .0004 of the world population would still be over 3 million people. Running for your life toward the sideline, throwing against your body, both feet off the ground at the point of release, over fifty yards in the air, and accurate. I'm thinking eball might be right...

If you have "obviously made it known" and the record on where you stand is "well established," then wouldn't you agree anything from here on out is pretty much crusading?

I do believe the vast majority of fans were in the camp of "take a shot" at a franchise QB, and most of those, myself included, were of the opinion they would rather the FO take a chance and fail then not take a chance at all. Well, they did. I'm with you, we can't really ask for more than that. I believe the order of their board was Darnold and then Allen. There is no way they were going to get Darnold, so, they went with Allen. The longevity of the FO and coaching staff will be primarily dependent upon the talent assembled and the ability to get the most out of that talent on the field. I'm feeling pretty good about both so far. Here's hoping for the best with Allen.

To be fair, I think there are plenty of other things in his posts that make him look uninformed and like he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Haha! And you do realize that evolving in your views does not turn you into a mangina?

The continuing, and sometimes painful, evolution of the collective consciousness

Unfortunately, it is the price. As Thomas Jefferson said, "...a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing...," and what you are seeing is a rebellion against inequities that have existed for a long, long time. I hate to see anyone unjustly treated as a result; however, I do understand the reasons behind what we are seeing.

I am well aware of the term "toxic masculinity" and the problem with the argument on both sides is there seems to be a sliding scale on what constitutes "natural male behavior." Even if everyone agreed on the definition of natural male behavior, it can still manifest as appropriate or inappropriate behavior dependent upon the circumstances. I agree the pendulum has swung in regard to the broadening application of the term "sexual misconduct" and the disparity (in many instances) between behavior and the severity of consequences. I do not agree with that either. However, I also understand that, as with most instances of the pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other, that it is a reaction to the long time "willful ignorance" of many people to "real" issues of sexual misconduct - and outright predatory behaviors.

If that was all you were arguing, then I agree, 100%. However, in this thread, and other threads regarding this topic, your posts appear to go beyond the bounds of merely arguing for the presumption of innocence into rants about biological imperatives and third wave feminism / #MeToo - as if (1) men have no ability to control their behavior due to biological underpinnings of human behavior and (2) every allegation of sexual misconduct is nothing more than the product of vengeful feminism. In the end, the tone of your posts sometimes makes you sound very similar to the fringe you are railing against.

Aren't you the guy that asked another poster for a picture of his underaged daughter after he referenced her in a post?

Or, maybe not...

They were probably thinking along the lines of the old adage, "The earlier bird gets the worm."

Always respect your opinion Gunner and I absolutely agree his ceiling is very high and his floor is very low. I watched as much film and read as many analyses as I could on the QBs in this draft, as I was fairly certain the Bills would select one of the "top 4.". I do not believe I have anywhere near the ability of guys like you or Kirby in assessing their talent; however, I also wouldn't consider myself to be completely void of any ability - maybe somewhere in between. At the end, when the choice on draft night came down to Rosen or Allen, my analyses told me they should go with Rosen over Allen. With all that said, risk assessment is a very tricky business - and that is really all the draft process is: An assessment of as many variables possible to predict future behavior. That is something I do have considerable experience with (although not football success). Since 1997, there have been 56 quarterbacks taken in the first round. Less than 35% have won a playoff game and less than 35% have career winning records.In that same span, there were 33 QBs taken in the top 10. Excluding the four that have been in the league less than three years, 44% (13) have career winning records and have won at least one playoff game (we'll use this as an arbitrary measure of success for this). That doesn't mean a team has a 44% chance of finding that successful QB if they pick one in the top 10. The QB they select will either be successful or he will not. The real question is: Do all of the variables indicate a greater chance of him being in the 44% who are successful or the 56% that are not. I would agree with you that the variables I have looked at seem to say Allen has a greater chance of being in the unsuccessful group (not to the degree that you do). However, from experience, I also know that risk assessment is a very inexact science. In any given case we really do not know which variables will be the most weighted, what variables we are unaware of, and how all of the variables ultimately come together. And some of those variables may not even exist yet. At this point, based on what I have looked at, I just do not feel as strongly as you do about which group he is more likely to end up in. So, Allen was not my first choice; however, I was not unhappy with the selection and I am just not as pessimistic as some others may be. I will hope for the best, as you will, until there is no reason to hope anymore. I certainly haven't reached that point yet - not even close.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion; however, IMHO, I believe there is far less certainty about who will be a bust and who will be great than you seem to. Just a feeling on my part, but, I don't think ALL the data indicates Allen will be a bust. Then again, I haven't seen ALL the data and you apparently have. So, maybe you are right. We do agree on one thing: Time will tell.

I don't wonder why you have the low opinion of Allen - whatever you want to think of him, from one end of the spectrum to the other, you can find some support for. However, I guess I do have to put myself in that camp that wonders how any fan of this team can say they will not even give him a chance.

Yes

(1) I don't think you can find a post I have ever written that portrayed this FO (or any other) as infallible. I am not sure why you would direct any insinuation of the sort in response to the post I wrote. (2) Successes or failures of past draft decisions have no bearing on whether or not the draft selections of this year will be successful - the only bearing they have is on the psyche of the fans. (3) Your first sentence is the point I made in my post: At this point in time, nobody knows which draft selections will be good or bad. Having an opinion one way or the other is fine. Expressing it as a declaration of fact is not.

Well said. I am not annoyed by differences of opinions or even heated debates. Debate is healthy. As I told all of my children as they were growing up: Have your own opinions and believe what you want to believe, just be able to articulate what you believe and why you believe it - while being respectful of other opinions. What does annoy me is the manner in which a small minority of posters express their opinions: (1) As if every opinion they have is somehow superior to any other opinion out there, (2) The opinions have to be delivered as if they are facts, and (3) They feel the need to become aggressive and personal with anyone who disagrees with them. I have been visiting this board for many years and there are posters, such as you, Gunner, Hapless, and others, that I respect a great deal, equally as much for the for (1) the content of their posts and (2) the reasonable, thoughtful, and respectful ways they articulate their opinions.

Over time it will become obvious? Inherent in that statement is that it is not obvious at this moment. If it is not obvious at this moment, then how can you make declarations like "he is EJ 2.0" or "he can't play QB" as if they are fact. Seems all very self-contradictory and confusing.

IMHO, those who like Allen will be able to find all the evidence they need to justify his potential to be a franchise QB. Conversely, those that do not like Allen will be able to find all the evidence they need to justify his potential to be a complete bust. Whether or not I agree with the pick, I respect that, not only, did this franchise finally take a real shot at finding a franchise QB, they chose the one that has the highest potential ceiling. They swung for the fence and I hope they hit it out of the park.

Haha! Absolutely right: Praise the teams who took the players you like and question the teams who took the players you don't like. Hmmmm....