BigBuff423

And that’s fine b/c I’m not sure Bills want to actually move Shady so the ask should be high and return an important one for the Bills. But, Philly also needs to recognize there aren’t many RBs of Shady’s capability that doesn’t lock you in to a ton of Cap commitment, eg. Bell. He’s a rental in a year when they have all the players to repeat that may not happen in 3 yrs time and committing a lot of Cap room to Wenz and what will be an older RB at that point may not appeal to them, b/c other than Bell I’m not sure who else is available with their respective talent.

I’m not sure why this fact escapes so many in this thread: this is not about projections, it’s about what YOU would take in exchange for Shady. I presented an alternative to demanding a 2nd & 3rd Round picks. As for Warmack, he’s promising and young but he’s been inactive all year on game day. As for Agholor, that’s why it’s an ask and it’s why it’s a 3rd not a 2nd. He too hasn’t yet lived up to his promise in Philly and they have other weapons with Jeffrey coming back. So it’s merely an alternative to getting the aforementioned picks as in something I, personally, could accept. That’s it. No prognostication, it’s about where I think the middle ground lies in what the Bills are asking and what I, as a fan, could suppprt in return for Shady. No need for dramatics.

I mean, you understand that's what he'd be in Buffalo too, right? I wouldn't want just Foles, but if it were Foles and a 3rd or something, I would not pull out the pitchfork and torch.

I don't think you need to get that upset (your choice but it seems worthless to me)....ideas about what Shady's value would be to YOU as the fan of the Buffalo Bills and those names come up for all the obvious reasons....it's not a projection, it's a "what would you like in return"....

Shady and a 5th (we have two) for Philly's 3rd & Agholor and Chance Warmack

Ok, you just cheated bandit...you were looking at my paper (see post above)...... Jk Bro....

1. Baker Mayfield has some of the most talented receiving options in the AFC North as a whole. Yes, AB stands alone as he's arguably the best WR in the entire NFL, but after that who comes next? Landry could be...JuJu benefits from AB on the other side, Njoku a 1st round pick, Callaway's Draft status had nothing to do with talent so that's another very talented WR and add Duke Johnson a receiving threat, Carlos Hyde doing great and then Nick Chubb who's a beast. That's not including an emerging WR in Higgins. Mayfield has the most support of any of the other three and has the most starts and experience in college. 2. Darnold had a good game this week - no caveats, but his QB rating of 77.2, with 7 TDs (good) to 6 INTS (not so good); 83 of 149. He has Anderson and Enunwa to throw to, not to mention Crowell who is playing well and a more experienced Offensive line. 3. Rosen - has a poor Offensive line but has Fitz, Kirk and David Johnson in his prime and yet had a 40% completion rate this last Sunday against a questionable 49ers Defense. And, that's taking into account the lone big play to Kirk for 75 yards and a TD. He gets credit for that absolutely, but so does the rest of the game in context. He currently has 2 TDs and 1 INT with a 49% completion rate over three games. I'm not down on any of these guys, including Allen. I think all of them will probably have illustrious careers when it's all said and done. I said last year and still believe 2018 QB class will be like the 1983 QB Draft class in the longevity of greatness from QBs. BUT, you CANNOT point to the other three and presume that they're doing better than Allen in nearly any way AND each of them have better receivers and according to PFF two of them (Browns and Jets) have a better Offensive lines. Allen has done more with less in nearly every sense of the word. He needs to continue to improve and I do believe he left plays on the field, but let's be real about what he doesn't have around him and consider all the context, please.

I got sandwiched between the two gun-slinging Twitterers....Yolo & 26, too slow for one, just a hare quicker than another.....

And now it's official, welcome to Buffalo Mr. Anderson (Neo).

To me what's interesting is that few on this board are fairly and objectively critiquing the other 1st Round QBs, two of which were NOT available to the Bills. On the season, Allen is second behind Mayfield in completion % and has gone 2-2 in his first four starts against: Chargers, Vikes, Green Bay and Titans. Yes, the Bills NEEDED a good Defense and this last week they needed a decent / good running game and got it, but we knew that didn't we? Everyone was shouting to start Allen while understanding this team would rely on good to great Defense and a decent to good running game. They do, and now the sky is falling...?? Man, sometimes the Bills fans are the best and sometimes they are the worst. Allen possessed all the prototypical traits a franchise QB has in the physical department and had the intangibles to lead a team, but needed starts and coaching to get him into the NFL QB realm. He's getting that....and the Bills are still winning despite that fact. They lost miserably at Baltimore and the game was essentially over when he came into play in the 2nd half and he was bad, but now we're seeing how good Baltimore is and it was his first live action EVER! Then, in his first start he looked every bit the Rookie QB, but the Defense was terrible and in the second half everything started to come together Defensively for the Bills and he made some minor improvements. Then the Vikings game the D continued their dominance and he orchestrated short drives to capitalize on the opportunity through his athleticism and an open pass to Croom. Green Bay on the road and he had a rookie game...no excuses other than his options for passing were limited and for whatever reason, Shady wasn't used and Ivory was non-existent in the game plan. Then Titans come to town. Defense gets a turnover and Allen uses his athleticism again to score the game's only TD. We also forget that the Offense was moving the ball and gaining yards, but a botched field goal by another Rookie cost a probable 3 points, and then Allen creates the drive to win the game on a last second field goal in just his 4th start. And he made some crucial passes on that final drive, don't get it twisted. Is he ready to be the reining King of Buffalo? Well DUH, of course not. But, we've gotten exactly what many fans wanted, won two tough games against good opponents and Allen continues to develop. If you take Traspasso's evaluation, Allen had the best game of his short NFL stint from a pocket presence and awareness standpoint. Folks, change occurs incrementally, not all in one week. Mahomes is awesome, but Reid sat him behind Alex Smith, a former #1 overall pick and good QB, to learn for a year. Let's give Allen the year and see how he transitions into next year, all the while game-planning accordingly and building on what is becoming a very good Defense.

It would help tremendously, but don't sleep on Fuller or Coutee. Watson's ability to run is equally dangerous, although, I suspect if the Bills have to choose, it will be to keep tabs on the receivers, try to slow the run game and make Watson run to win.

Eats? And I say this as a stocky man myself...no judgment, but I can't think of anything else.

Given how the Bills have played on the road overall since McD took over, I understand this line. Add in Allen being a Rookie in his fifth game to start and an absolutely abusive Defensive line, and I think it makes sense. If there's any help at all, it's that Houston went OT against Texas rival on Sunday night with just a hint of less rest and focus. Next week they play the Jags - Divisional game on the road - maybe the Bills catch them napping. But, it's a fair line until the Bills can go in a knock the snot of their opponent on the road - consistently. Vikes was an awesome game, it was incredible and I loved every minute, but the Bills need to do it consistently before Vegas or anyone else takes them seriously. Maybe not this year, but I believe they will in the years to come when Beane gets the players they want and McD and can build the team he wants.

You have to give him props for what he's done in Jax, and Hackett who many ran out of Buffalo with pitchforks and torches, but what should be equally shouted about their success is Tom Coughlin. He Drafted Fournette and focused on building their strengths - running game and Defense with a "good enough" QB until they can amass the WRs and TEs to open up the passing game. They've started to do that with their guys, but really it's Coughlin who deserves just as much credit as anyone else. I may not like Marrone and I think he was a tool for quitting the way he did, but there is synergy between Coughlin and Marrone given how they coach and what they want in a team.

And keep in mind, Rosen had enough time to knit a sweater in a large, clean pocket - AND threw to another 1st round WR in Kirk who got YARDS of separation. I get that some people are still unsure about Allen - and that's fair - but comparing Allen to any of the others right now does NOT make any sense. Browns have legit weapons everywhere and Rosen at least has a couple guys in Fitz and now Kirk who can catch and get separation and Darnold has a serviceable Offensive line, albeit not great, with a couple decent WRs to throw to as well in Anderson and Enunwa who is sneaky good at across the middle and tough catches. Allen has almost none of those things going for him. It is redundant and I sound like a broken record, but until Allen has someone to actually throw to, it's all apples and oranges. I think the Offensive line is a bit better than people here give them credit for, but they still need a ton of help to actually be good.

And if you're going to play that game, if Bojorquez (a Rookie Punter mind you) hadn't believed it was a fake field goal, then the entire game could have turned out differently in terms of Offense for the Bills. Who knows....but honestly, it happens in the NFL, as Edelman dropped an soft touch pass from Brady on a 3rd down that resulted in a forced punt. Didn't change the outcome...or when Stevie Johnson let the pass slip right through his arms in the endzone in OT against the Steelers....should we go on? Nah, ok...btw, your bias is showing.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but if you're referring to Josh Allen's performance, then I disagree. Look at Goff's rookie year, even Carson Wentz wasn't a world-beater, it took a year or two in the NFL and for the team to get a competent Offensive line along with some receivers and a sound running game to compliment Goff and allow him to be successful. You can hate on Allen all you'd like, but your inability to be patient in the face of difficulty only reveals your own issues, not the team's or Allen's.... In the NFL in regards to Rookie QBs, patience is more than a virtue, it is a necessity to continuity and longevity.

Jared Goff would like a word with Mr. Dilfer..... That said, I don't think it was ever really the plan to play Allen so early in the year but I also think Beane and McD had to make a choice: overpay for a QB Vet to hold the spot, which goes against the plan to strip the team of the Cap deadwood, or hope that AJ could be the guy for a year. Beane admitted last month AJ did not play to the level they anticipated and Peterman exceeded their expectations in the Pre-Season, pushing the issue to either get a Draft pick for AJ or leave him on the team when they liked Peterman and of course Josh is the future. They chose the commodity once given the chance. Now, I'm fine with getting a 5th for AJ for what was a summer rental even though I would have been just as fine with letting AJ play this year as Allen develops and learns after that 4th Quarter comeback, it was hard to argue that he had the poise and intelligence to orchestrate the comeback. Regardless of the talent he was playing with or against, it was a feat to say the least. But when considering the all of the factors, the Bills moved on to gain more ammo for next Draft which they desperately need to rebuild the team and were fooled by Peterman's Pre-Season magic, but they weren't alone - many a media pundit was fooled as well. The larger issue is making sure Daboll and the Offense plays within Allen's current limitations and slowly exposing him to the type of plays his maturity provides. No...no, it's not. He and Bean have bought themselves at least two more full seasons...the end of 2019 season is the earliest his seat starts to gain temperature.

You misquoted me and took issue with my post. It’s on you to go back and re-read my original post as you misquoted me from the beginning and took issue with something I didn’t say. So, enjoy your day and Go Bills!

Giants: 2013-2015, losing record, and last year went 3-13 with a QB good WRs a talented TE and some Defensive players like Landon Collins Cowboys: in 8 seasons between 2010-2017 they made the playoffs twice and I didn't say they didn't make the playoffs as you tried to dispel my statement, I said "struggled" to make the playoffs, which given the above info I'd say is accurate. And yes, Dez was part of the cause they struggled. You don't see it yet the Cowboys did what most on this board want the Bills to do: spend high and often on Offensive line and then took a RB in the top 5 and built that Offense while acquiring some good Defensive talent. Yet, they continue to falter. Maybe they won't this year, but they have yet to show real winning over time despite loads of talent on both sides of the ball. To me, this only proves my point, but you have a different perspective or opinion...fair enough, but let's be clear about the argument I make and don't conflate my context with your opinion. Browns: you say they've been bad at Drafting, but yet their players have been supremely talented, argued by no one over the last five to seven years. The issue is how they develop and use that talent and what they do to create an environment conducive to winning at the expense of the "me first" mentality. And in my original post I gave credit to Sean McD as it was widely reported he was running the Draft. As for Johnson, it's four games in and yet experts far more knowledgeable then either one of us have said T. Johnson has been fantastic thus far. Edmunds has greatly improved from week 1, that's coaching right? Or is it just luck in your eyes? And no, Whaley didn't truly run the Draft....they were all fired a day or two later. They were advisers, Sean McD ran that Draft....go back and read what was written in the days and weeks after the Draft. But, believe what you'd like.

49ers for years Oakland for years Cowboys Giants over the last 5 years (Offensive talent, not so much Defensive) Browns.....I mean, duh? Routinely picking in the top 10, if not top 5, getting really talented players but....well, you know the rest There's just a few off the top of my head. Those teams were either Drafting high year in and year out for a while and still couldn't consistently win or like the Cowboys, had talent all over but would struggle to make it into the playoffs because of guys like Dez / R. Gregory, etc. But we only need to look at guys like J. Gordon, M. Kendricks, Ray Rice, etc. and see that if you have more than one of those types of guys and I don't mean criminals necessarily but guys whose personal issues interrupt the team focus, it is nearly impossible to sustain success. Football is so much different than baseball or hockey or the NBA where one player can change the fate of a franchise. That is possibly true of a QB, but as we see you need an Offensive line that can block, WRs / TEs that can catch and a coach who knows how to use all those tools. Culture trumping strategy is not tantamount to good culture can overcome poor talent. IMHO, it's saying that we can have all the talented players in the world, have a great game plan going in, but if you don't have the synergy and focus from every player committed to the game and not at all concerned about their personal "stats" then over the course of a year, the wins won't be there and the failure is virtually guaranteed. Moreover, Sal Capaccio put McD's full statement into context when he added how McD was responding to a question about how to go about replacing players who they cut or trade and I think what he was insinuating was that just because a guy is super talented and might be a great player, doesn't mean getting him and plugging him into a personnel gap will automatically make him successful because his fit within the culture is even *more* important to overall success. But he didn't say they run contradictory, he said one "trumps" as in when all things are equal, culture edges strategy in terms of team building. They can run concurrently in unison while one takes the primary lead.

Um, Zay is in his second year with a Rookie QB and a poor Offensive line. Additionally, I didn't realize McD and Beane didn't Draft Tre White, or Dawkins, or Milano or Edmunds (who is growing with every game), or T. Johnson (who is also getting better with each game)..? So, yeah, it's only first and second year players, but they're all showing real signs of promise and um, it's only the first quarter of their second year...? Is that point lost on you? Additionally, Beane wasn't part of the first Draft and yet McD did a pretty solid job all things considered. He helped guide the first Draft with the aforementioned players and acquired real Draft capital for the year when they were going to take their QB AND they got him. Whether Allen becomes the Franchise QB we're all hoping for remains to be seen, but they did get their guy (as best they could with all factors considered). So, no I didn't disprove my own point, you just refuse to acknowledge the other Draft picks they did make that have been good thus far.

I think folks are simply misinterpreting his intentions. IMHO, to say that culture "trumps" strategy simply means all things being equal, a culture of a team-first mentality will be far more important in the long-term view of winning. In other words, strategy IS important and it needs it's due attention and talent acquisition is of course part of the strategy, BUT if you have a divisive culture or more individually focused approach, then the strategy won't be nearly as effective. Take one of Webster's definitions of "trumps": a decisive overriding factor or final resource https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trumps?src=search-dict-hed If you take the above definition, it essentially says that when all else is decided, this final factor or "resource" will win the day or decide the outcome. IF you look at his quote in this context, then to me, he's absolutely right. And before we start arguing about what he meant, just consider the entirety of the quote that went on to insinuate that guys who don't buy in to the team first mentality, hurt the entire team as a whole and that mindset will lose games over time. Time will tell if McD is the right guy, but after making the playoffs (however they did it, they did it), and starting a Rookie with virtually no WRs to speak of, an aging RB, and a hodgepodge Offensive line, I'll give them through next year when the "culture" has been established, money spent and Draft picks for three years have been assigned. FWIW, it appears that they're doing a fairly good job of locating Drafted talent with Zay not yet showing his value and Allen still needing a lot more to prove.

Like anything else, it depends on the cost. Amari Cooper in a Bills uni for a 4th and Shaq is a great idea....but I'm not sure that anything more than that is worth it. I like it for now and the future, but as always cost determines outcome. That said, I'd be surprised to see Gruden trade Cooper.

Now, why do we need to hate on fat and drunk? I mean in the words of the 20th century philosopher, "Stupid is as stupid does"....so, that's where stupid reaches it's zenith....but what did fat and drunk ever do to you? Let's let them live the good life without the ball and chain of "stupid".....c'mon man! Fat and drunk IS the way to go through life.....