BigBuff423

Right, and I heard that sell by a number of people in the media and some on this board. My issue is, Darby is a great CB regardless of scheme and a good Defensive Coordinator / Defensive-minded HC should be able to utilize his skills regardless of scheme, especially in CBs when you need so many. Additionally, all Defenses play variations of man-to-man and zone throughout the game and he was on his Rookie deal so it wasn't costing the Bills a great deal of money. It's water under the bridge, but it's the one trade I couldn't support even though I believe in what Beane and McD are doing overall.

The only trade I can say I really detested at the time was the Darby trade. I didn't like it then, I still don't like it. Every other trade at the time made sense when you consider the overarching vision for the team, at least IMO.

I agree that McD and Beane should get all of the 2019 Off-season to be able to nearly finish the rebuild and then the 2019 season to see if their plan has generally worked. So, I'm for letting this season play out and seeing where the Bills are at the half-way point next year. That said, IF McD is fired, then I think Beane stays and gets to pick his HC and I think that's only fair. Then the next HC should be an Offensive innovator i.e. McVay / Nagy type of HC. I'm willing to see if McD can manage the entire team and I like the overall changes that have occurred, but if it goes south next year - there will be no excuses. Two Off-seasons with a bunch of money to spend in 2019, 3 full Drafts - only 2 by Beane, and time to build your core players and a year to develop your QB, regardless of injury, if you're developing your QB correctly, in his second year he should be making huge strides. It shouldn't stop in year two, but the leap between year one and year two and then again from year two year three should all be really, really significant. IMHO of course.

Only time will tell, but I don't think the Jets let Enunwa leave. They just took a Rookie QB high in the Draft and Enunwa is a good possession WR that can help the kid out. So, maybe the do and IF they do, I agree he's a good target the Bills should look at, but I just don't think the Jets let him go unless he's had enough of them and wants to test the FA market. Also possible.

As noted in my response to bandit a couple posts later, it went my over my head. Apologies.

That's cool....a point completely flying over my head...

I'm not really following the purpose behind your statement....? Is it sarcasm to the college he attended? Hard to believe but eh, to each his own Is it insinuating many folks on this message board don't have the mental acumen to stay in an intelligent conversation with him? Possibly... Are you simply trying to run amok an otherwise positive conversation about a former NE coach because you live in NE? Also, an equal possibility... Regardless, please elucidate the context of your statement otherwise, why come onto this board? Just take your ball and go home.

One little plug for the Lions on this board: Matt Patricia is from Sherrill, NY located just West of Utica / Rome in Central New York. Until they play the Bills, I hope the guy is successful for many years to come. Great to see a local boy make good.

Of that list the only two names that would greatly intrigue me, and I'm not saying I want them over McD (yet) but it would be: Cooter and LaFleur. If I were Denver, I'd be looking at Cooter (man, did that just sound like a 5th grade joke!).

I agree and while some Giants fans are going to whine about not getting more, the salary left on his contract plays a role in return value. Also, while he's one of the best in the league in Run D, that's about where his limit lies. But, for a team that has Offensive players, this makes sense.

Per Adam Schefter, Gettleman is cleaning house...

So, let me recap: Allen, jury is still out - yes and I think everyone in the football universe knew it would take AT LEAST a year before we even began to see his full potential, let alone closing the book on good or not. So, probably not is just your presumption of bias being accurate. Maybe is your strongest argument here and that can't be disputed because nobody knows. White and Edmunds their other two 1st Round players will be good...awesome. Milano - was recently named AFC Defensive player of the week. I have no idea how he'll do over the long term, but you realize he's still just in the midst of his 2nd year and a 5th round pick? Dawkins: decent is good for now, again given he's in the middle of his second year. Remember Jason Peters? Took him a FEW years to show he was worthy of being THE LT for a long time. Dawkins could regress...but until then, that's a home-run when your second year LT nails it down. Phillips - playing second fiddle to KW, but has done so well that the coaching staff feel comfortable moving him around and giving him more responsibility for a ROOKIE. Before I go any further, you *do* realize you've given them fair to good credit for SIX - count them - 6 Draft prospect in TWO freaking Drafts..????? That's six good to great starters....and that is NOT presuming Allen or Zay Jones who I've already said has been their best receiver or Taron Johnson who gets the love from local and national media alike in terms of his play or Wyat Teller who hasn't even dressed for a game yet because a 10+ year Vet has manned his position so far and done it fairly well. Now consider Jordan Phillips, Hyde and Poyer, Jason Croom, and Bojorquez who've all played pivotal roles as they've been asked. No they weren't drafted but they were acquired by various means, which adds value to how Beane and McD see talent. The team built on the Defense because there were good pieces in place, the Offense is a total gut job and it will take two years to tear down and rebuild - mostly because of poor Cap management by Whaley. So, even with all of your "they're terrible" you're unwittingly giving them a great deal of credit in basically a year and a half of football.

Dawkins and Milano, Harrison Phillips, Zay Jones is showing better over recent weeks and I think he's been the best WR for the Bills this year - and that's not saying much, but a young Rookie QB has done him no favors, then add in Taron Johnson who is having a strong Rookie campaign. These are just last year's and this year's players. That's not including Hyde and Poyer that weren't Bills until last year, but the Bills did go a get them to make them a really strong Safety tandem, in fact one of the best in the league last year.

I don't know that anyone is placing "all the blame" on WRs, but it is very hard to know what he can / can't do when for the most part, WRs aren't getting separation. Take yesterday's game - Anderson threw an INT that was intended for KB over the middle and while initially it looked all on Anderson (and sure some of it was), one of the announcers and I can't remember who - said KB didn't even make a legit attempt and planting and digging toward the middle of the field. I'm not expert, but as soon as the INT happened I saw KB basically loafed toward the middle. It was as if he ran hard up to his break and then as soon as he broke toward the middle, he put it at 3/4 speed. If he had run hard and kept running, maybe it would have still been intercepted or maybe it would have been caught or maybe at the least, KB could have gotten a hand in there to keep the INT from happening. Either way, his lack of effort showed in live t.v., let alone when you have the benefit of slo-mo and the announcer saying as much (I think it was Archeletta?). Either way - Allen needs to get better, but so does is supporting cast.

They did. He's injured. And if you say Allen isn't the QB, the entire Bills organization disagrees with you....for now. And, until you get him guys to throw to, you won't really know what you have. Tyrod had Watkins, Wood, Clay, Harvin and Hogan....we knew what he was after the first year - or at least most of us did - but with Allen. 1. He's a Rookie 2. He's raw and needs work and we all knew this, namely the Bills 3. He's had almost no one to pass the ball to 4. Running game was poor until recently.

If it's just for a 5th, I'm not turning it away given Buffalo has two of them, but I suppose I should say that Thomas should be the consolation prize. And, I think we could argue that trading picks for proven players on the Offensive side of the ball, might actually make more sense. It's sort of the Patriots model and while I may hate the dark lord that is BB, he did make a good point as to why they've conducted business that way for the last five to seven years. Simply put he said with the CBA it's nearly impossible to get the practice time and work the Rookies and young players the way they need to in order to make them NFL ready / capable. With Allen in mind, I think he is far better served being surrounded by experience than getting more Rookies. So, while I think getting Defensive FAs to come to Buffalo won't be terribly difficult given how good the Defense has been under McD, I agree that getting FA Offensive guys will prove to be very hard no matter how much money you throw at them and we've seen how Beane feels about bloated salary. To that end, I would make the argument that using this trade deadline as their means to Drafting Offensive talent. Raiders are in the selling business now, so I would trade quite a bit for Carr, Cooper and Conley as it helps in all three critical areas. I would also trade for DT if he can be had for the 5th or less we mentioned.

I'm sorry to do this as I normally don't but this is an area that I was frequently crucified for during the last Off-season when I said you trade Shady and Hughes. Yes, Hughes has been good to great, but it's wasted on a year when the rebuild continues. I wanted to trade Shady before the Draft because 2018 Draft was deep in a great RB class and it made the most sense this team wasn't going to take the next step this year. I banged the table and was nearly run off the board for saying so....but, here we are. Shady, KB, Clay and Hughes should all go, for very different reasons. I'll say this: I've been a McD and Beane supporter and largely believe in what the overall vision is for the long-term (while being frustrated at the pathetic Offense) BUT if McBeane are going to sell us on the whole Cap health approach, all of the above referenced players need to be dealt before the deadline. The team will take a hit with Hughes only. Murphy and Ivory can hold the RB spot, KB has been non-existent anyways and a PS player can't do worse and Clay is so inconsistent, I'd rather start Croom. Get a player if you can, get Draft picks, but shed the driftwood altogether and make the commitment to be a completely revamped Offense for next year.

I do too. The problem I see is that he is more of a slot guy and the Bills have a couple of those. What they don't have is a boundary WR who stretch the field, make catches, and open the Offense. I see Thomas on the down-slope of his career and I just think the Bills can do better given his age. If this was Thomas two years ago, it'd make sense, but where this team is going and how they're rebuilding, I don't see it. Now Amari Cooper on the other hand....sign me up.

Furthermore, if the team (Whaley, as Fitz said in his epic FredEx Roast!) can bold face lie to Freddy and then be released days later, I think Beane can just tell Shady, "If I can get value for you, you'll be on another team. Now, I'm happy to call the team you'd like to be on, but no promises". And then, just pick up the damn phone and sell away. Benjamin, Clay, and Hughes are all guys who probably need to go in addition to Shady. RB is deep for the Bills with Ivory and Murphy and don't forget Ford on the PS for the rest of the year. Trade for Cooper and see who else is out there to begin to acquire talent for Allen. Also, if I'm trading or signing FAs, I'm looking at Center, WR and TE. The Draft is deeeeeeep this year for DE / Edge and DT...let that guide your hand. Use FA for the Offense, where you need immediate support for Allen. Just my .02

But to be fair - and I'm frustrated like many of us are with the current state of the Bills - if this second year looked as bad as it is, AND last year was something similar to this year, then I think you'd have a point and could make the case that McD is on the hot seat. But, by marginally making it into the playoffs with so much turnover - yes, they did it themselves but this point has been beaten to death about getting healthy under the Cap - it shows there is real potential and promise of a more permanent up-swing in the years to come. Believe me, I'm frustrated and disappointed with how hard it is to watch the putrid demonstration weekly for what used to be a proud franchise. But, constantly turning over and over isn't good either. So, at this point I think you have to give McD and Beane until this point next year to see what happens. I really hate that....it turns my stomach. But this year was all about developing the Rookie QB and MLB and building for next season. That hasn't changed even though watching it is a bit like torture. Side note: FWIW, if it were me, I'd trade for Carr and Cooper if for nothing else than to show the NFL community I want to win so when FA starts, they can look to the good, young D and the moves made to show real commitment to being better.

Please don’t mistake our difference of opinion regarding strategy after the fact for difference of opinion about Carr altogether. I’m all for getting him - he’ll, I’d pay a 1st rounder for him if it was just that straight up - given the premium market value on QBs. We just differ on what do once Carr is wearing the great Red, White, and Blue on Sunday’s. All good Bro...we’re basically on the same wavelength.

And if Carr were 30ish I would I totally agree. But you don’t trade for Carr AND keep Allen. You use Allen however you can to gain assets. I’m not advocating one way or the other, just that if one then the other.

If you trade for Carr, you have to move Allen. Having that kind of controversy and constant debate isn’t healthy for the team. I don’t know what the Bills could get for him, but I just don’t think having both of them makes sense.

I find it amusing most fans were ready to run Hackett out of town in Buffalo and then he and Moron go to Jax with a great Defense, improved Offensive line and the 4th overall pick that is a stud RB to make it to the AFC Title game and know Hackett is pretty good. We all remember they had EJ Manuel in Buffalo right? We also remember that Moron's shtick got old with the local media, right? Hackett is the one who said they were going to run CJ Spiller "until he pukes".....Coughlin has made that team by building on what was already there and making some key acquisitions and Drafting. Daboll is trying to make hay with dog poo....let's see how Anderson does over the next couple weeks in Daboll's Offense. This week will be tough to judge since Anderson doesn't know the whole playbook, but by week 3, Anderson should have it down. Additionally, Daboll is dealing with a super green Rookie, WRs who either can't get separation or fail to be interested in playing for paycheck and an aging RB. Again, apples to oranges. Let's see how it goes over the next couple seasons.

I would disagree about not showing any progress because I think the ways he's improving are areas that don't show on the field....yet. When I read and listen to people who know far more about these things than I do - I will never claim to be an expert - they talk about his pocket presence improving, his footwork has shown some improvement, and settling down and not making plays that kill the opportunity, ala GB interception or basically anything from the first two games. The issue is that until those fundamental improvements become rooted in his mechanics and his game, along with getting better at reading Defenses pre-snap, those improvements will only show up in flashes or increments. To another extreme, for all the woeful and pitiful play Peterman put together in the game this season, I just don't know that Allen makes the throw Peterman made that gave the Bills the lead and their only TD against Houston. Then, Peterman Petermans and gives the game away because I think he was filled with confidence and thought his arm could do things it can't. So, I could be alone in this - but I just think once Allen gains that ability to mature mentally and able to read Defenses, his other mechanics have begun to show some improvement (still has times when he's flat-footed and shoulders not square to the target but it's gotten better), he will be just fine. He really did need this year to learn and adapt and grow. If Anderson plays well this week, I don't think Allen sees the field until after the bye....if at all.