BigBuff423

I didn't say it was...it was in response to McD being fired and him needing to go and I pointed to an accomplishment no other HC has done since Wade. However you want to dissect it or make it excuses for why it should or shouldn't be...fact is he made the playoffs with an off-cast of talent in many respects and that's just the bottom line.

The outside world fails to appreciate what needs to be done....national media are the worst at this. We, as fans, should embrace this total tear down on Offense, because it's what we've known needed to be done for a decade. No HC and GM have had the stones to do just that....get rid of the driftwood, take on a rebuild and do it the way they believe it needs to be done - hell or high water. I respect that. I know you don't but at the end of the day, a man needs to lead with his conviction of ideals. That's admirable no matter how you slice it. Truth is, the Bills were several years behind the times when Wrex was here in revamping the Offense. The Offenses that are record-setting are ones that have taken two or more years to build. The Bills are in year 1 of tear down. Build up is next year and depth and power are year two. Sorry. But thems the brakes...

Pay a tax? Huh? Everyone complains about how all they want is to be relevant and make the playoffs, McD and staff do that IN THEIR FIRST YEAR, and now we're demanding perfection? Did anyone miss how terribly mired in mediocrity this team was for years? How many campaigned for "Suck for Luck" and now the Bills are actually doing the rebuild and fans don't want to anymore and want to fire the architect and contractor before the frame has even been finished on the house? Man, I've said it before: some of the best fans in the world are Buffalo Bills fans, but some of the WORST fans in the world are Buffalo Bills fans.... No patience, no vision, no ability to remain positive toward the future and yet miserably complain every time the team tries to do something right...yikes. We're not the laughing stock because of record or Offensive woes or stupid table breaking b.s.....fans become the laughing stock because they refuse to accept the pain of getting better for the future AFTER they've asked for it for going on 10 years. Woof....

The playoffs are just an indication of the step the team took toward changing expectations on the team and in the fan base. As for the coaches you mention, everyone of them have established QBs and Offenses with multiple options. If you're going to compare the Belichicks, Reids, and Paytons, you need to compare them in their early years, the teams they took over and how they built the winning culture. As for McVay, he had a team literally loaded with talent on Defense, and the franchise QB in place - and proceeded to make all kinds of trades to get Offensive play-makers because they had all the other pieces. The Bills are RE-BUILDING...how is that so hard to understand? BB went 36-44 from 1991-1995 and went 5-11 in his final season as the Browns' HC. Take a look at how Reid did in Philly and that he didn't start McNabb for 9 games and went 5-11 in his first season. Payton went 3-13 in his first season as HC with Saints and then signed Drew Brees and the rest is history. It's almost like, you need a franchise QB and for him to develop to be considered a good HC....hmmmm? Wonder how that works... Point is, if Allen craps the bed, and we won't really know until the end of next season, AND Beane doesn't get Offensive line, WRs, and another TE that can be versatile in running and passing game, then it's all over. But IF, and it's a huge IF, Beane addresses the Offense with good players and Allen progresses as the QB of the future we're all hoping him to become, all of these discussions are moot. Hence, it's way too early to be determining that McD and / or Beane are any good or their terrible....only next year will really tell the tale.

You mean the same HC that gave this franchise it's first playoff birth in nearly two decades just last year??? And yes, they needed help, but when it's every other team in the NFL who makes it into the playoffs - via Wildcard - they're not torn down the same way this fan base does it with the Bills. Fact is, they still needed to win games to put themselves in a position to be in the playoffs, external help be damned. And for those who presume a rebuild occurs in two years is either 1. 10 years old 2. older, but similar maturity.

I completely disagree. Mainly because you can't take a generalized approach and apply it in blanket terms. The Defense was on the uptick and is the specialty of McD and so you build on your strengths. He didn't get the Offensive Coordinator he wanted - who ironically has now been fired mid-season in his second year - and then waited for his GM to help construct the Offense. The first order of business was to get rid of guys who didn't hold a team first mentality and the second was to clear dead Cap to allow for 2019 full on rebuild. Moreover, Mahomes or Watson in this Offense would NOT be having the same success they've found with their respective teams....for so many reasons. Additionally, taking Defense now helps to cradle a young and developing Offense because they don't feel the pressure to have to do it all right. The blow outs this year have been far more on the Offense, just like this past Sunday, 14 points came directly on TOs and another came with a poor TO in Buffalo's own end. The Defense did a decent job, not great against the Run but pretty darn good against the pass so meh job...but in other weeks they've been outstanding. Point being, building on the strength of the coach, while allowing a new GM to define the Offense and taking a year to get financially healthy so you CAN build your Offense takes time and patience, but it doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means we all need to see the vision for the future and not focus on the present, which we knew this year wasn't about.

These types of points continue to frustrate me as a fan. They didn't fail to recognize the problem, they simply decided against putting themselves in similar financial restraints against the Cap the way the team did when Whaley was here. They are $10 mil under the Cap, that's not much room, so who do you exchange? Star was brought in to improve the Run D and allow the LBers and DE to get to the QB, which the Defense has actually improved in many ways. So who do you exchange that truly changes the O-Line for that money that is in the long-term plans? The guys who were decent Offensive linemen available in FA simply got P-A-I-D and the Bills wanted to clear their Cap space and were forced into the situation with unforeseen retirements for their starting C and LG. How is that hard to understand? The plan all along was to take this year as a way of clearing dead Cap, but they didn't think they'd also have to find two starting Offensive Linemen in addition to all the other changes when the plan was put together. But they're sticking to it...that's the part that some fans don't want to accept. They were given few options and decided to stay the course. It's become ludicrous that fans fail to accept circumstances as they unfolded. Beane's admitted he should have brought in Anderson after the AJ trade, but short of that, what other changes or concessions could they have made that would have changed the fate of the team AND allowed them a healthy Cap management? 2019 is the make or break season for both McD and Beane. And that doesn't necessarily mean setting the NFL on fire, but it really does demand MUCH improvement in the Offense and incremental improvement in the Defense. I'd say Offense needs to get to the middle to close to top 10 for next year while Defense improves in some areas and the Bills push for 10-6 in order to be "safe" for 2020. If they do better - awesome - if they fail to develop the Offense and the team looks even close to how bad it is this year, then I think they get their walking papers when the season is done next year. And, if the team is bad next year, don't rule out Beane coming back and getting one more shot to choose his HC. I'm hoping none of that is necessary and I think with 2019 Off-season, they will get it right. Just my .02

To the bold statement, I completely agree. IMO, their fortunes with the Bills rise and fall based on 2019.

And that's fair, meaning McD has that conviction regarding how DBs are used. It's just one I disagreed with at the time and now considering how they've struggled to consistently find a CB2, it would seem imprudent to have dealt him when he was still on his Rookie contract. That said, it's not a major deal to me. I believe McD has the right approach to the game and his players and Beane has the football acumen to lead the team as a GM by acquiring the right pieces of talent and personality to be championship caliber. That said, all the potential in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans unless they activate that potential into real world wins. 2019 holds the key for both these gentlemen and I believe it should be a razor's edge year: succeed, and you've demonstrated competence to secure at least two more years, fail to the extent this team looks similar next year as it does now and I don't think McD survives beyond the last game of 2019. But I do think Beane gets a chance to pick his HC if that were to happen, based on Pegula's history with Sabres and Bills and that Beane was hired after the fact of McD, leads me to think if anyone goes, it would be McD first....although I'm sincerely hoping the situation doesn't demand that type of action and winning has resolved all concerns.

I'm of the sect that finds less fault with Beane and McD than others, as I just don't think you can change a culture, revamp the roster, create a healthy Cap continuum, and locate and develop your QB of the future in one and a half years. Most of the people who think McD and Beane should be fired are those with a microwave mentality and refuse to acknowledge where the team was when McD and then Beane took over. The only trade I truly didn't understand - despite the idea that he didn't fit the scheme - was Darby. All the others I think played to the larger philosophy and vision McD and Beane have for the team. I also appreciate Beane's honesty to say he missed the mark on that one and should have been more proactive in getting a 3rd QB, a true Vet. That said, IMHO, it's much more about what they learn and how they adapt, than it is about pointing out their mistakes. It's easy to play captain armchair lame-ass GM when you don't have the multi-million dollar questions on the line day in and day out. IMO, Beane and McD need to be held to a higher standard with each passing year, and to that end, 2019 should be a year where real, measurable improvement is easily seen in the Offense and the Defense continues to get incrementally better. Thank you for responding jw, it's easy to duck and hide or ignore.

I remember when the "Suck for Luck" campaign was in full force and people all over this board were talking about how lucky the Colts were with going from Peyton, to one terrible year, to Luck. Now, the Bills have one really terrible year when they've shed Cap strapping players, have a top tier Defense and will be able to Draft high and spend in FA, and people are losing their minds? I mean, really? I'm all for demanding more, but within reason. For example, I demand KB to not be a disengaged, lazy, self-entitled pile of poo and for receivers to catch the ball and for players to play with passion. But, I can't ask a WR to run a 4.3 when he's 30 when he ran a 4.5 when he was 20....or to make contested catches, when he's never done that his whole career or for Shady to beat back Father Time when no one wins that race....basically, if you didn't know this was going to be an ugly year, then you deluded yourself into thinking something it wasn't. Bills need a total rebuild on Offense some key pieces on Defense. They need to show drastic improvement next year, but it probably won't be a complete picture until 2020, if we're being honest. 2019 is to get the Offensive pieces around Allen: C / RT / WR1 / WR2 / another TE and depth at G, along with CB2 and OLB. But those are big pieces that will need to be playing together to gel.....I can see them getting it done, but it will take a bit for all those pieces to come together. Plus 2020 to continue to get deeper to insulate against injuries at those positions. That said, McD needs to show he can improve the Offense drastically and at least maintain the Defense overall and I think both will occur. But if not, he gets his walking papers at the end of the 2019 season. In today's NFL culture, three full years is reasonable. Anything less is not.

Priceless....thanks for sharing!!

You mean, "I can ball Bro", doesn't ring as 19th century poetry? I mean, Twain & Poe must be jealous from their graves of such esoteric nomenclature.

You and your crazy balanced, logical arguments....silly man, go back to your mom's basement.

No, no it wasn't. Watkins has now twice admitted he was a "me first" type of player when he came into the league and I suspect it took the Bills trading him and he getting a fresh perspective in order for him to realize what little a selfish player can do in a sport that is interdependent on 10 other guys on the field at once. Bills made the playoffs last year and used some of the Watkins trade capital to get their QB of the future and MLB of the future. Had Watkins been a humble, team-first mentality type of WR, he might still be in Buffalo. Additionally, he thrives when he's not the centerpiece of the Offense, i.e. Rams / Chiefs. But when he was in Buffalo he wanted to carry the Offense on his shoulders by catching a bunch of passes and getting the stats, but that's not how his game excels. So, now with his third team and Reid at the helm, he sees how all the parts need to work together to be truly successful. As for trading for WRs, I think the best idea Yolo had was to trade for Cooper who is just 24 years old, some eight months older than Calvin Ridley, yet has three years in the league and real NFL production. However, Cowboys giving up a 1st, was just more than the Bills could swallow I'm sure. All of that said, Beane and McD will have the 2019 Off-season to spend that Cap money and Draft plenty of players to build an Offense after securing their QB this year. So, time will tell....

As we all talk about this team getting better and learning or maturing together to be a much better team, more specifically - a significantly improved Offense, I hope Beane and McD are learning there is nothing more important than good QB depth. The 2017 Eagles are only the most recent example, but we've seen it in Buffalo, the Giants saw it in their first Super Bowl against the Bills, and we've seen it year after year, when the starting QB goes down, the season can either sink or swim....based on the QB. McBean need to now over value the QB position as a whole and invest good money into the 2nd QB. Everyone gets a mistake to learn from....but you need to learn from it. This was their year to learn this valuable lesson....now, don't let it happen again.

Well, there goes one potential suitor for Benjamin's services.....not that I'm surprised....but was still hopeful KB would yield a bag of oats....or maybe, a bag of dildos is more appropriate?

I was guessing during the game, it's because Anderson still hasn't had time to get the full playbook under wraps so Daboll put into a Cliff Notes version the plays he and Anderson felt he could call and use.

If I'm Beane, I would trade a late round pick for Seth DeValve. He's the exact type of complimentary TE Josh Allen and this Offense will need moving forward. TEs take two to three years to develop and I really like what they have in Croom. Croom and DeValve would create a nice TE compliment to the passing and running game. My .02.

I would think the Bills would want to sign him to like a 2 year deal to insure he's here for Allen next season.

It's a no brainer that Beane needs to go heavy on Offense, but....DT / DE is reportedly the strength of this year's Draft class and IF the Bills have a top 10 pick and IF they can't trade down, it might be BPA - which could be DT / DE. I would prefer a DE to get some youth on the edge if that were the case and with all the money in FA, it's possible the Bills are able to corral a few Offensive starters, i.e. Center / RG / RT and two WRs. Personally, I would *prefer* the Bills were able to add real quality starters to the Offense via FA b/c it only helps Allen in his development since you're not throwing Rookies in the mix with him AND it probably improves the Offense the quickest. That said you have to get FAs that WANT to come to Buffalo, no matter how much money you spend on them. Right now, that's not an easy sell. It's one reason why I think if Beane and McD are truly wanting to be better NEXT year, then you use this trade deadline THIS year to get WRs / Offensive linemen if possible, with contracts through next year so that you can essentially control your own market.

I disagree. According to the information available, Beane and McD scripted out the plan to the Pegulas and this included all of the Cap shedding done the last two years. That's what this year and last year was about. Even the ever non-existent Kelvin Benjamin was only under contract through the end of this year, no long-term commitment. They wanted to dismantle the Offense and re-shape the Defense. The Defense was a bit easier and quicker to improve, and you cannot argue this Defense hasn't greatly improved under McD from the Wrex days of abysmal performances. The Offense needed a legit Franchise QB, which was going to take capital. Essentially, making the playoffs made it harder to do b/c this is the year they probably thought they were going to have *last* year which would have been a top 5 pick. They had to trade assets to get into position to make their pick. And before you dump all over Allen, take a look at the other Rookies and how they have even better weapons to throw to - albeit in Arizona their Offensive line is putrid, and yet the numbers aren't way off and that's with Allen missing games. Point being, this will be a new Offense next year. How Beane and McD attack the Off-season, build around Allen will ultimately decide their fate - but it is way, way too early to fire anyone at this point....all things considered.

To the bolded portion, teams find good to great talent all over the Draft and they don't need to be 1st or 2nd round guys to be good. The NFL is littered with good to great talent found in all rounds of the Draft and just in the last two years the Bills drafted Milano and T. Johnson in the 5th and 4th rounds respectively and so far, all signs point to them both being really good players - way too early to make a determination, but indications are positive. Additionally, Wyatt Teller, showed really well in the Pre-Season and I'm guessing they kept Ducasse b/c he did perform fairly well and the Vet presence on the left side was intended to help their Rookie QB, but don't forget about him either - a 5th round pick. Kyle Williams a 5th round pick also. Point is, it doesn't need to be a high draft pick to get a really good player - I could go through a quick list of really great players in the mid to late rounds all over the NFL, but as for the Bills, first two years: so far, so good.

I think the roster overhaul will continue to be really significant this year. The Draft is deep on DL and DE / Edge which to me makes sense as to where you go with your 1st round pick depending on value and BPA. I hope the Bills spend most of their FA money on Offense. They need experience and immediate contributors on Offense to help Allen out and get this Offense to match the Defense in terms of production and playing ability. If and that's a huge IF - the Bills can get a really high quality C / RG and WR1 and WR3, and OLB starter along with really necessary depth at all the positions listed by OP, then the Bills can use the Draft as BPA because they need talent in every position group, with LB right now looking the best. Also, a true Vet QB needs to be a priority, but I don't think they can break the bank so a guy like Siemian would be a viable back-up, plus the Bills need to Draft one with one of their late round picks to continue to develop to be the long-term back-up solution, much like Reich was to Kelly. That said, just getting a FA WR1 will prove to be nearly impossible due to how infrequently they actually make it to market and truthfully, I don't know if the Bills philosophy is spend big on a FA WR anyways. There are some good second tier WRs if they make it out into FA, here's a link: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/ That said, the Bills have a tall task for 2019, but they have the money and the Draft picks. Also, I'm fine with the Bills trading a 3rd or something along those lines or even into the 2nd if it's for a really good WR on a team that is about to bottom-out, the problem is, I don't know that such a player exists. I liked the Cooper idea because he's only 24 and he's shown he play at a high level in the NFL, despite some struggles, he still has just so much potential with a history of putting up some good numbers.

It is extremely hard to judge Daboll given the Rookie QB / total garbage dump that is behind Allen, the lazy WR who looks like he'd rather be playing shuffle board than football and the TE who received an inflated contract due to Greg Roman's scheme and then couldn't stay healthy or effective and an aging RB with as many miles as trailer trash hooker with Two-For-Tuesdays coupon book since 1970. I agree with the OP that I *do* think McBeane will get it all to come together and that they simply focused on building to their strengths first, cleaning off the Cap mess, and then completely overhaul the Offense. If you look at it objectively McD took their LT of the future to protect the QBs blindside, they took the all time leader in FBS history in catches to give the QB an outlet who was sure-handed and then took their QB. The motive and the plan was pretty well thought-out, but Zay had a torn labrum last year and then in the tripping incident at the Jets couldn't recover so he looked worse because of an injury no one knew about until after the season. Add in two retirements on the Offensive line they did not anticipate and a WR who just quit on the team and yazda - it's the mess that it is now. When the first Draft occurred they had both Wood and Incognito under contract for a couple more years and Drafted Dawkins and Clay was under contract so they had what they thought was their pass-catching TE. Yes, they had this last Off-season to address the Offense, but we know now that there was a commitment to clean up the Cap so they never planned on spending a lot of money in FA and when they did, they again decided to build on Defense so that they could try to keep the games close and hope the Offense could do something, just enough to win. But, they also knew once Wood and Richie left, it was going to be ugly. Until next year, I reserve judgment on Daboll and believe McBeane will get players and talent to surround Allen. If they don't then next year will be McD's last along with Daboll. But, I think Beane gets a chance to pick one more HC before Pegula fires him IF it ever comes to that.