OldTimer1960

The Pats have also been the MASTERS at trading "this year's" round X pick for next year's round x-1 pick. That is, trade a 2nd this year for some team's 1st next year. They have 2 picks in each of the first 3 rounds this year. The extra first is from fleecing the Raider's first pick for an aging and injured Richard Seymour. I don't remember where the extra 2nd and 3rd came from, but it was likely from trading a 3rd last year for a 2nd this year and a 4th last year for a 3rd this year. Of course, that is easier to do when your team is already very good, but that's how it is done.

While I do agree that Fitzpatrick isn't an elite QB, I agree that the defense is SO woeful that almost every pick should be spent there again. The only LB on the roster that could start for a good Division 1 college team is Poz and maybe Moats. I have hope for Carrington at DE, but Stroud is miscast at DE and is past his illustrious prime. This team has ZERO pass rush and no identity on defense. They can't play the 3-4 that they want to play, yet still suck (just a little less) when they play 4-3. They can't stop the run to save their lives and with no pass rush they are wasting some talent in the defensive secondary. I know that there are better QBs that Fitzpatrick and I know that the team needs a RT, perhaps a LT, a good TE and maybe another WR, but for my money, I would try to build a solid defense and live with Fitzpatrick again next year at QB. I just don't see a QB worthy of a top 10 selection and that will improve the Bills. I LOVE Andrew Luck's game. I think he is the next great QB, but he will be long gone by the Bills' pick. I don't like Mallet - thinkhe has a great arm, but is missing those intangibles that Fitz has. Now, if you could take Mallet's physical tools and Fitz' mind, THEN you have a QB! I also am afraid of Cam Newton. I just feel that there is too big a chance that he is the next Vince Young to pick him that high when our defense is so abysmal. I wouldn't mind if they wanted to spend a middle round pick on a smart QB like Moore from Boise St, but realistically, those guys don't pan out very often either, so I'd rather spend the top 3 picks shoring up an embarassingly bad defense. Just my $.02 worth...

He is far more valuable to the Bills than the 3rd or 4th round pick that they might be able to get for him - unless they decide that he just isn't worth the big money that they'll have to pay him. Evan's trade value just isn't very high, so they are better off keeping him (IMHO).

I would certainly like to see Spiller earning more carries and be a target for a pass or two a game, but he really hasn't done poorly at all when he has gotten chances. 4.1 ypc is pretty respectable, especially behind an OL that has *maybe* one starting-calibre OT and has had a lot of injuries lately. I wouldn't write Spiller off yet, but I think there is cause for concern that he isn't getting many opportunities. That is usually a sign that the coaches don't like what they see in practices and meetings, however, I think it might be that Gailey is adament about making rookies earn their playing time over the vets. I think that is a good strategy for building good teamwork and will help the rookies be accountable and learn to work like a pro- an important lesson. I think that if Gailey had just tossed the rookies in ahead of vets that were better at the time (due to their advantage in experience), this team wouldn't be showing the fight that it has shown.

My opinion is that they need significant upgrades at: 1 OLB - I think Moats might be a starting caliber player, but nobody else on the roster should be starting in the NFL at OLB 1 ILB - There needs to be another good ILB next to Poz if they are staying w the 3-4. TE - There is ZERO threat from the Bills TEs. The D doesn't even need to cover them. OT - MAYBE Demetrius Bell can be an OK starter at LT or possibly RT, but they must find a good starter for the other T position. DE - Stroud may not be back next year and I'm not sure that he is playing that well anyway. Maybe Carrington can be one DE with Dwan Edwards on the other side. I can live with Fitz at QB next year, but I still haven't seen enough from him to believe that he is an upper-eschelon starting QB in the NFL. Maybe he'll continue to develop - he's the kind of guy that you want to pull for, but he may not have enough natural talent to be a top-flight starter.

My opinion only, but the challenge to scouting QBs is that most of the guys that look good in college are playing on great teams (because they were top recruits to begin with). Their OL is superior, their WRs are open by 5 yards instead of the few inches separation that Pro receivers often get, the run game that supports them is usually very good. Because of the above, you often can't get a good feel for how they read defenses, how quickly they can make decisions and go through their progressions. You can't tell if they have the mental game, etc.

Ah, I remember J.D. Williams too. Not a bad comparison really. I am still hopeful that McKelvin will continue to improve. He really has tremendous athletic ability and he isn't afraid to tackle even though he isn't that big. I don't think he will ever be a great CB, but I think that he can be a good-very good starting NFL CB.

Leodis McKelvin has had his share of struggles, but I still see flashes of a good player in him. I do think that he is a tremendous athlete and that he tries hard. I think that he usually has good coverage, but doesn't seem to sense the ball in the air to make pass breakups - but there are decent/good CBs in the NFL that are the same way. I don't think that he'll ever be the star that they were hoping that he'd be when they picked him high in round 1, but he isn't awful either (but I admit that when he makes a mistake it is often a BIG mistake).

I don't understand why so many are attacking the original poster. You may not agree with his assessment that Fitzpatrick is too inaccurate, but the post was articluate and stated an opinion. I haven't completely made up my mind regarding Fitzpatrick, but I do think that he throws a lot of passes that aren't really where they should be. He has a lot that sail high and some are pretty wide of their target. That isn't to say that he never throws dead-on accurate passes (as he did to Johnson in the end zone in OT). Is Fitzpatrick the reason that they are losing this year? No. Is he the answer going forward? I don't know, but if he is, unless he improves his accuracy he will be at best the 3rd best QB in this 4 team division (behind Brady and Sanchez).

**MAYBE** on offense they aren't far away from respectability, but they are woeful on defense, particularly against the run. Perhaps 3 new LBs and hopefully the maturation and improvement of Troup and Carrington will be enough to get them to respectability on D. The pass rush is also abysmal, so at least one of the new LBs needs to have very good pass rushing skills.

True enough, but by being out there in the public eye with all sorts of PR appearances and calling attention to himself, he now has to suffer the results of a horrendous performance.

Stevie Johnson was terrible today. He personally lost the game by dropping a perfect pass that would have ended the game in OT. He also had 4 other drops, including one that went through his hands that Polamalu intercepted to end a Bills scoring threat. We might have witnessed the end of the miraculous run that Stevie had from nobody to somebody. I wonder if he has the mental toughness to recover from this disasterous game.

I love the effort, toughness and resiliency of this team. HOWEVER, they still have a SIGNIFICANT talent gap as compared to playoff-level teams. It is important and significant that they seem to have changed the player culture this year. In the offseason, they still have more holes to fill than can be reasonably expected, but they could be a .500 team next year with the right pieces added. I think that Troup and Carrington will be functional, solid additions to the D next year. I think the defensive backfield is already quite good. Big improvement on defense hinges on really improving the LB corp. They need at least 1 legitimate feared pass rusher at 1 OLB spot. The other OLB position needs an upgrade over Kelsay in terms of overall game. At ILB, it would be nice, though not imperative to have an upgrade over Andra Davis next to Poz. If they can accomplish those things, the D can be fair-to-midland. I'd love to believe in Fitzpatrick and I haven't completely formed my opinion yet, but he still looks like a top backup/low-end starting QB to me. Yes, he plays with heart, effort, leadership and intelligence, but he is not a very accurate passer and throws too many picks at very inopportune times. That being said, the players seem to really love playing with him and he is young enough to possibly continue developing into a good starting QB (still, hard to think he'll ever be more than the worst starting QB in the division with Brady and Sanchez likely always being well above him). The team NEEDS at least a decent TE. I wanted to believe in Shawn Nelson - and maybe you can write off his lack of contribution this year to injury/suspension, but he does not look like the answer, so far. Other teams boast TEs that make 4-5 catches a game and keep drives alive with important catches. Look at Dustin Keller in NY and Hernandez and Gronkowski in NE - imagine how much more effective Fitzpatrick could be with a dangerous weapon like those guys to go with Evans and Johnson. A functional RT is a must. All of these undrafted guys and rejects from other teams are not going to cut it at RT if this team hopes to be a playoff contender. If they can upgrade half or more of the above positions in the offseason, then they can show significant improvement next year.

Here I am and happily they won the game thanks to them trying and also thanks to an EPIC collapse by the Bengals. I don't know where you come off thinking that I am dead wrong, though. Yeah, the Bengals completely folded and the Bills were game enough to take advantage of that. Great and I am happy that they did. I am happy that they try hard and compete. I am happy that their coach has put some toughness into them. BUT, don't think that this is somehow a great team. All the flaws that were there going 0-8 are still there. Some are improving with experience (the OL, Troup and Carrington are at least playing on the DL now, Steve Johnson), but their run defense is still truly abysmal. Lindell's out of bounds kick and missed 30 yd FG attempt would have cost them the game against even a decent opponent. And, I love Fitzpatrick's story and heart, but I still am not sold on him being the answer at QB for the long-term. He is a gritty, smart, hard-working QB, but he can be wildly inaccurate. There have been a LOT of passes this year that defenders flat-out dropped that should have been INTs. Heck, he got very lucky in this game that an INT was called back due to a roughing the passer penalty. That could have ended the game right there as Cinci's lead could have been insurmountable. OK, flog me for venting my frustration, but don't come off like some smug know-it-alls that you guys all had this figured out and knew that they were going to win this game.

It takes real effort to F-up a franchise this bad. There should not be ANYONE left in the scouting department after this season. This team is so void of talent it is ridiculous. The only two 1st round picks that are good at all in the last many years are Lee Evans and Eric Wood. For those thinking that they should "build around Fitz", I think that he is showing why he is a tough overachieving career-backup. Even formerly good K Rian Lindell is now awful. How on earth do you kick the ball out of bounds with 1:17 left? That error gave Cincinatti 3 points and if the Bengals were worth a crap, they'd have scored 7. Way to just hand momentum right back to Cinci after a late score gave the Bills just a little hope. I've been a fan since the late 60s and while I admire the team's effort, they are just truly awful and might be the worst team I have seen in those 40 some years. Whew, I needed to vent that. I'll try to get back to being calm and rational now.

I absolutely agree. I don't think that the DL is bad, but the LB crew - especially the OLBs are all backup-caliber players. In the 3-4, the majority of the pass rush is coming from the OLBs and the Bills' weakness there is why they don't get pressure on the QB. (Yeah, I know that Bruce Smith had a LOT of sacks as a 3-4 DE, but he was a very very special player). Nothing against Torbor and Kelsay. I admire them for their effort, but they are not the dynamic pass-rushing athletes that the Bills need at OLB.

I agree, it is hard to blame the DC when they are trying to play a 3-4 defense with no NT and only 1 starting-caliber NFL LB. Oh, I forgot to mention that they have a backup DT trying to be a starting DE (Spencer Johnson).

I'll withold judgement on this front office and coaching staff for now, because they were presented with a completely empty cupboard. I WISH that this year's draft choices were contributing something, especially given how utterly bad this team is. However, a rookie is a rookie and it is too soon to give up on them. The FA signings for this year were weak, but probably in line with the team's ability to pay given that they are one of the lowest revenue teams in the league. Don't for a minute think that the Bills are playing on an even playing field. When other teams rake in 10, 20 or 50 Million $ more, it is extremely difficult to compete with them.

I agree that Kelsay is over-paid, but if they are going to over-pay anyone, I'd rather it be a real tough try-hard guy like Kelsay than some fat talented, but lazy turd like Peters. Kelsay is FAR from the biggest problem on this team and I think they want to show that they reward those kind of players. HOWEVER, it is an indictment of the talent level of this team when he could be remotely considered one of their better players.

This team couldn't win the WAC, much less the SEC. Their best hope for a win is to beat Saskatchewan when they have them at home. I've been watching the Bills since 1970 and this may be the WORST team that they have ever had. I'll grant that they have had a murderous first 4 games, but they haven't even been remotely competitive in 3 of the 4. Realistically, this team is at least the following away from being decent: 1. A good QB 2. OLT, ORT 3. NT 4. 2 OLBs, 1 ILB 5. a starting-calibre #2 WR 6. an NFL calibre TE (they don't have a single TE that could make another roster, much less start). What a sad sad state this team is in. Worse, they are getting absolutely NO contributions from this year's rookies. Spiller might be able to help, but they refuse to use him for anything besides kick returns and (or all things) pass blocking on 3rd downs - and he's horrible at that. Troup has shown absolutely nothing. With as truly horrendous as the run D is, you'd think that if Troup had ANY talent, he'd be on the field. Gack. Carrington also hasn't shown anything. It's extremely disappointing that he can't even get on the field ahead of Spencer Johnson. Johnson is nothing but maybe an adequate backup and Carrington can't carve out 10 snaps on D? Moats looked like he *might* be just about to maybe start getting some snaps, but he got hurt and it didn't look good. When a team is as bad as this one is, especially on D, it is SHOCKING that their rookies can't get playing time.

They'd be lucky to get a single 3rd for Evans. He isn't a #1 WR in the NFL. He is an adequate deep threat in an offense that has other weapons, but he isn't really in the top 30 WRs in the NFL. Guys like him are not a dime-a-dozen, but aren't that much more expensive.

Will there be a thread calling for the Bills to sign every player cut over the next few weeks? I understand that the Bills are in a position where their roster isn't very good, but signing a bunch of cast-offs from other teams isn't going to improve this team very much.

I love the point that one poster made about how odd it is that there are a lot of people down on Maybin even though he shows effort and yet there are many Edwards supporters even though he doesn't show (outwardly) any passion at all. I have posted my concerns and frustrations with Maybin, but I do try to be balanced and point out that I've never read one thing that suggested that he isn't trying. He clearly has trained his body as he doesn't have an ounce of fat and he has added muscle. He also seems to hustle most/all of the time. I think many people's frustration is due to how high he was drafted and the return on investment so far. I think he'd be pretty popular if he had been some lower round draft choice showing his athleticsm and would be considered a "diamond in the rough" - which might still be true.

Thank you for the perspective. Some folks here think every top-10 pick is an immediate star for every other team, but that the dumb Bills always F it up. Reality is that half the top 10 picks might be very good, one or two great and half will struggle. I don't think Tyson Jackson, Andre Smith and Darrius Heyward-Bey are any further along than Maybin - not saying that's great, but it does mean it isn't unique. Also, IMHO, Maybin is no longer than undersized. He does still need to gain some strenght, but it is his pass rush moves and leverage that I think need to be improved more. Few LBs are going to be able to bull-rush an OT. Maybin's first half consisted of him always trying to beat the OT wide upfield. If you have no counter move, most competent OTs can handle that no matter how fast the LB is. Maybin just started some counter moves in the 2nd half, spin was the first. Now, why that is such a mystery to an as good an athlete as Maybin appears to be is beyond me. But I haven't written him completely off. He has talent and seems to work, so there may be hope.

Of the bunch, I see McKelvin as the least-bust-like. He is very talented, missed most of last year due to injury and is behind a very good veteran in Florence. Maybin concerns me more in that he is behind a career backup, but he is only 21 and would only be going into his Sr year in college now. I do count McCargo as a bust late in round one, but it is hard to fault them for taking him. He was pretty highly thought of coming out. It isn't like he didn't have supporters and most likely would have gone in the next 10 picks if the Bills hadn't taken him. Look at recent can't-miss prospects like DTs Ryan Sims, Kentwan Balmer and Phillip Merling for evidence that 1st round pick doesn't necessarily equal good player.