OldTimer1960

I haven't seen any post say that he's had 3 DUIs. I have seen several say 3 alcohol-related incidents, including a DUI. I just don't see Floyd as that ultra-talented - way-better-than-other-prospects guy that warrants taking any risk related to his off-field problems. Many here obviously disagree. I just worry that if he had those problems in college, might it escalate when he gets a boat-load of money in the NFL.

I have to disagree that the Bills' OL was "solid" last year. It was better than the disaster that it had been in the past, for sure, but the OL's pass blocking weakness was masked by the short-fast passing game that the offense adopted. Having better blocking OTs would enable Fitz to have more than a micro-second to stand in the pocket and open up a bit of a down-field passing threat. I share your concern about Reiff, Martin and Adams, but I think that the conclusion that the Bills' shouldn't try to improve the OT spots is off-base. To the point that the Bills' have gotten by with 7th rounders at LT in Jason Peters and Bell, the same can be said for WR where there is almost nobody on the roster that was drafted before round 7, many weren't drafted at all. While I think that WR needs to be upgraded too, I could make the argument that the WRs last year were as "solid" as the OL was. Indeed, both the OL and WR group had serious shortcomings that Gailey and the offensive staff did their best to hide. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I also disagree that Michael Floyd is "too good to pass up". Some here on this board are making him out to be some freakishly good can't-miss prospect like Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson. I don't see it. I see a guy who is a good prospect with size, adequate speed and very good production at a big-time program - but a guy with major red-flags given that he nearly blew his last college season by having his 3rd off-field problem (all alcohol related including a DUI). I think Floyd is a good enough prospect to consider at #10, but I see him in a mix of about 10-15 other players that are all nearly the same level prospect. I may be wrong and he may be the next Fitzgerald, but I would rather take my chances with another player who has shown that he can control himself off the field and has pretty similar talent on the field.

Boy, I don't like this list of players that they are visiting with. I hope that it is more a smokescreen instead of the guys that they are interested in. Irvin never was a full-time starter in college and the more I hear about Martin, the less I'd want the Bills to take him.

Yes, Millen's draft record was very poor for sure. However, as someone old enough to have been around for all of those drafts, I can say that other than Charles Rogers and Mike Williams, none of those first round picks were considered bad or "reaches" at the time. Many in Buffalo (and other cities) would have been thrilled to get Joey Harrington. Same could have been said for Roy Williams. Williams was 6'2.5", 212 lbs, with 4.42 speed and a lot of production at Texas (70 catches, 15 ypc his last year there for a team not known as a passing team). My point is not to defend Millen, but rather to say that the draft is very unpredictable. Even guys that look like sure things can flame out. Scouting is very important, but having some luck on your side helps, too.

Playing 2nd fiddle to Golden Tate isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the 10th overall pick in the draft. In his first 2 years in the league he has caught an 56 passes for a 10.9 ypc average and zero (0) TDs. Not horrible, but certainly not elite WR territory, either.

I agree. There isn't a lot separating #7 from # 20 in this draft. Of those players, Kuechly has both the production and athletic ability at a significant position of need (unless they don't think he can play OLB very well).

I didn't mean to come across so strongly. I think Hill has talent, but his production in the same GT offense does not even register in comparison to Calvin Johnson and it is barely a blip compared to Demarius Thomas who wasn't elite.

Because he could be the next Travis Henry, too. IMHO, there are too many red-flags for a guy who is a very good, not great, prospect on physical skills and production.

There is no way on earth that Hill's college production warrants even a 4th round pick. Given his incredible athletic ability, he might be worth a LATE 2nd or early 3rd round pick. I don't think you can reasonably spend the 10th pick in the draft on a guy with that little production.

This guy could be in the same group as Jason Pierre Paul - a guy with embarrassing low production for his draft position who could excel as a pro - or he could be a highly over-drafted bust. I think the Bills have made significant strides in FA and the last 2 years' drafts. I'd hate to gamble on this guy in round 1.

++ I agree that he showed some potential in the preseason and I was also surprised that he didn't get any opportunity when the WR corp was decimated with injuries. I can only conclude that the coaches saw something that caused them not to be very excited about Aiken.

I know that I am in the minority, but I am not at all sold on Michael Floyd. He had three alcohol related problems, the 3rd almost cost him his final year at ND. IMO, as a big-man-on-campus, those must have been fairly significant events for them not to have been over-looked. Even if not, one or two incidents and I can chalk it up to stupid college kid, to have the 3rd when he obviously had been warned by the coaches, leaves me to believe there is a big problem that could get much worse when he hits a giant pay-day. I am not all that convinced that he is SO good that his talent warrants ignoring those problems. I admit that he had big production and has the very good size to have potential. I know that he ran faster than anticipated, but there was a reason that people didn't think he had separation ability based on his play. No debate from me that the Bills need another good WR, I am just not sure Floyd is good enough to pick there, especially considering his off-field problems. I know that 4-3 OLBs are generally smaller than 3-4 OLBs, but Lavonte David strikes me as a reach in the 2nd round. I think he is very small for the NFL.

Like most here, I don't think it is wise to "reach" to fill a need, but rather a team should take the "Best Player Available" at their pick. However, this is much more gray than what one might think. In this draft there are 5-6 truly elite players and then another 10-15 players that it is difficult to separate. I think that the elite, can't pass this guy by players are: Luck, Griffin, Claiborne, Kalil, Richardson, Blackmon and maybe Fletcher Cox. After those guys, I think that there are about 15 players that could be drafted early and there isn't a lot to separate them except individual team needs and how each player fits into a given team's scheme. Those essentially equivalent players (IMHO) include: Kuechly, Poe, DeCastro, Reiff, Ingram, Kendall Wright, Mark Barron, Courtney Upshaw, Cordy Glenn, Michael Brockers, Donta Hightower, Michael Floyd, Peter Konz, Mike Adams and Coples. I think a case could be made for any of those guys at the 10th pick. In my opinion, the best fits for the Bills of that group include: Ingram (I think he is the best of this group, but not so great that they can't consider other players in the mix) Reiff - fits a big need, IF the Bills think he is an NFL LT. Kuechly - seems to be a "safe" pick and if he can effectively play OLB in a 4-3, then he might be a good pick Floyd - I agree that the Bills need another starting caliber WR, but I am not sure he is one. So, I don't know that there is any player beyond the elite guys listed above that wouldn't in some aspect be a "reach", but not a big one.

Yes, I think the Bills should take Claiborne if he is there. I wouldn't really care if he wasn't available after surgery until into the regular season. The talent gap between Claiborne and anyone else likely to be available to the Bills is very big (IMHO based on my reading). I really don't get the love that Floyd is getting on this board. Yeah, he is big and faster than advertised, but there is just something about him that bothers me. I think it might be that he almost got kicked off of his college team for his 3rd alcohol infraction. One or maybe even 2 alcohol related problems in college isn't that surprising, but I think it is a big red flag that he let yet another incident nearly erase his last year in college. I get that people sometimes mature and outgrow that sort of stuff, but when I look at Floyd I don't see the kind of truly elite playmaker that is worth overlooking a potentially serious problem. I think my opinion is similar on Dre Kirkpatrick. He is good-very good, but not so special that I want to overlook off-field problems and take him high. Heck, even without off-field problems, I don't think he is so good that he would be a slam dunk to be in the conversation at 10.

I think that there are other factors in play there other than LTs. For, example, the Saints, Steelers and Giants all have very good or better QBs and the Browns and Fins don't. I don't think that anyone is saying that having a great LT alone automatically makes a great team. Having a good LT can enhance your offense by helping the run game and providing better pass protection for your QB. Having a poor LT hurts your offense because your QB has less time to throw, defenses don't have to honor the deep part of the field as much (since QB has less time), this allows defense to crowd the line causing problems for the run game and short passing game.

I respectfully disagree. Where there is smoke, there is often fire. I am not saying that a guy in college can't mature and become a more responsible adult, but the draft history is filled with busts who teams picked early while ignoring similar red flags. Floyd's alcohol problems are certainly not the whole story, but it is something worth considering seriously. Now, that doesn't mean that guys who have squeaky clean college resumes don't also bust in the NFL... Some examples of guys with trouble flags from college taken early who busted: WR Charles Rogers DE Dwayne Robertson Willis McGahee ran himself out of town here with off-field problems Travis Henry destroyed his career and life with off-field problems Sean Taylor died (maybe a victim of circumstances, but had a history of trouble) Braylon Edwards never really panned out Pacman Jones was a BIG flame-out Mike Williams from USC had concerns about work-ethic and was an epic failure Matt Jones coked himself out of the league fast Vince Young has failed so far Matt Leinert has failed because he didn't have the work ethic Aquib Talib has been constantly in trouble and hasnt't succeeded We could go back further, including Reggie Rogers and Jerome Brown, but I don't think we need to.

I respectfully disagree. I think that you are better served looking long-term with each pick in the draft than for immediate returns. The Packers would not have drafted Aaron Rodgers in round 1 given your philosophy since he had to sit for multiple years behind Favre. That would have been a monumental mistake.

While I agree that OT (specifically LT) is the biggest need on the roster now (followed by OLB and CB), I don't think that alters the Bills' (and most teams') philosophy of not reaching for need - especially in round 1. To be sure, there is a wide variation from team to team of who the best players on the board are. I would still not rule out Melvin Ingram, who seems to be a BPA and have the right attitude and I don't think you can ever have too many pass rushers and versatile players. I would not be shocked at a LT, if the Bills are sold on any of Reiff, Martin or Adams. I would be a little surprised at a CB as I don't see Claiborne available at 10 and I think the next set of CBs has a lot of questions/red flags. I could see Floyd making some sense, but I am not sold on him.

Well BPA is very nebulous. The 3rd, 4th or 5th best OT might be considered better than the 1st OG. Why, you might ask? My viewpoint: in college, the best OL (ie, tallest, most athletic) are put at OT because they have the movement skills to block on the "outside" where they only have help on the inside (from the OG). The less athletic OL are put at OG where they have help on both sides (from the OT on one side and the C on the other side). OGs can succeed with less athleticism than OTs because they have limited responsibility with help on both sides. Being finer, to play LT you have to be THE elite athlete of the OL because you don't have a TE to help on the outside and because the (right handed) QB can't see the guy that you failed to block (hence the term "blind side"). The RT can be slightly less athletic because he usually has a TE helping on his outside shoulder and because, if he misses, at least the (right handed) QB can see the rusher coming and has a chance to evade him. To be sure, some guys projected as OGs can succeed as OTs and some guys projected as OTs fail at OT, but can move in to OG successfully. The latter (OT to OG) is more often the case, so the general feeling is that college OTs are safer picks because they have two shots to be successful (try OT first and then move to OG if they fail at OT). For OGs, it is much rarer to fail at OG and be successful at OT in the pros.

Partying in college, when under control, is not a big black-mark. But, to be in trouble 3x when you are a big-man-on-campus-above-the-law star on the football team is a BIG problem.

Well, I agree with your observation. That does not mean that I thin that Floyd is worth the 10th pick.

I disagree, a little. I would still be VERY interested in Melvin Ingram, but if he is gone, I think I'd be quite happy with Kuechly.

I can see that Floyd is obviously talented and has had a lot of production, but somehow I am just not really digging him that early. Some of it is the 3 alcohol problems he's had, including nearly being suspended for his last college season. Some of it is that it is hard for me to project him as a major star in the NFL. I know that I recently posted that there is a bust-risk for every position coming out of college, but WRs especially scare me. They were Matt Millen's down-fall in Detroit when he went 1 for 3 on high 1st round picks at WR in 4 years. Yes, he hit on Calvin Johnson and he is a MAJOR weapon in the NFL, but his other 2 WR picks were total and complete busts. Part of this may just be my inherent dislike of ND, which is shame on me, but I'd rather see the Bills go elsewhere than drafting Floyd high in round 1.

I think I understand the point of this post. The idea was that Kuechly had all sorts of production as a college player, yet he was being a bit downgraded because many scouts/media didn't think he was a superior athlete. I believe that the original poster was using the combine numbers to suggest that Kuechly is an outstanding athlete who also has outstanding production. I am warming up to Kuechly as possibly being the best player available when the Bills selection comes along. I am not worried about over-drafting Kuechly because LB (esp MLB) is downgraded in value. Top LBs, even those who are not primarily pass rushers, can have a significant impact on the game. LB isn't the same as the very de-valued FB position. I also believe that Kuechly can be an effective cover LB given his production in college and his better-than-expected athletic ability.

First round any position has a fairly high bust rate. There are no sure things in the draft. Have a look back at the top 10 picks in most drafts. I think you'll see a small number fo real stars, a few decent players and 2-3 busts.