NoSaint

I don’t see how playing vs not playing - or how well you played should equate to scouting ability? Having a bad 40 makes you a bad scout?

I suppose it depends on methodology- was pff separating qb play from offensive line play in this metric? I don’t love pff but they tend to be good about that type of distinction

I’m sure it’s just subconsciously formatting how they are used to seeing it in news headlines... but it really is amusing some days

It actually would help their cap but hurts the roster at least

24 hour bars have never done me wrong.

but I bet if you normalize it by removing the first year of gates career (learning the position) and last couple years (breaking down) the averages would be closer, right? I’m not doing the math now but I’d guess that it tightens up

I don’t disagree on blocking being part — but it’s secondary for me and im not arguing graham is the greatest- just an easy example as they have very similar stats and I watched him week in and week out (though graham had better pre Seattle). Would Gates 2005-2009 be a better 5 year example? Gonzalez 2004-2008 was also excellent though less touchdowns. Remember, this hypothetical is if gronk retires today— what order do all these guys all get in? Obviously tony g goes... then gates? Witten? To be fair gates came in a basketball player, and now is 37. Career averages should strongly favor the polished football player that’s playing in his prime.

Even his peak stats are a challenge though - as he’s had injuries. I showed jimmys 3 year upthread (3500 plus 36 tds) as better. I’d guess a 5 year run is pretty close between the two. Again, I think you have a strong case for him being the best —but I think it gets shaky if you start portraying it like he’s lapped the field. And I wasn’t arguing he’s 5th best but that it’s 5th (or 6th or possibly lower even...) statistically if he retires today.

Honestly, good for him if he’s serious about getting his head right. I suspect the comeback fails and hope he takes his mental health seriously even if he hits a point where he doesn’t think he has a shot at the Nfl

Im not largely disagreeing - but I don’t think it’s quite the landslide that was portrayed. I agree he’s likely the best blocker of the receiving stars (especially as a handful of them were basketball players) but I believe that’s deeper down the list when compiling a ranking of how tight ends impact a game. Not to be ignored but I think there are a few similarly impactful guys — which does leave things like blocking (pro for gronk), health (con) quality of qb play (all have good but gronk the best) as fodder for debate. Gronk provably wins but I don’t think it’s a “no one even a close second” type of conversation

Is he though? What about a guy like jimmy graham getting 3500 yards and 36 tds over a 3 year stretch? Or gates much of his career? gronk is a game changer no doubt— but I think you can make some interesting cases.

How did Hughes play? lawson? milano? how many wide receivers do we need? Thats all non-qb, non draft, lots of x and o talk

Truly there’s a bunch but there’s not as much soap opera gossip Defensive line? Linebacker situation? Pass rush in general? Wide receivers? Running back depth? Offensive line and whether we start 2018 with 3 new starters in the group?

And I’m not a huge fan but I think McD is who knows about our knew oc

Plus you aren’t rolling with peterman and two rookies... so they have to like him enough to move on from NP unless it’s a real late prospect that can go practice squad

Yup - there are sweet spots where you find the cheapest place you can get the types of players you need. You move to those spots whenever possible. Two guys at a need position rated the same? Keep moving back til you risk losing both. Big drop off behind a guy slated 10 picks ahead? Go get him.

Right, but when you are used to drafting top 10ish for 20 years, having to give up all your extra picks to get back to where you are used to being.... it’s like getting a raise and taxes going up simultaneously. You don’t complain but it doesn’t feel as exciting as you were hoping it would.

Cap is little to no worry for us generally speaking. There’s a large segment here that’s conditioned to being told we can’t have nice things.... but we’ve never actually been in trouble with cap I’m not sure which is more predictable- the “we can’t afford that” posts in February or the “how did those teams in cap trouble afford that” in March

We have great draft resources for a playoff team. compared to our usual draft slots — we might be softer even with the extra picks.

I agree he has a decent shot but I don’t know that it’s slam dunk until he gets closer to 10k witten at 12,500 yards and 68 tds gates 11,500 and 114 tds Gronk 7,000 and 76 tds has to be 3rd and those are all behind tony g being eligible with 15000 and 111 jimmy graham is just shy of 7k and has 69 tds— so if gronk stopped today there’s a chance graham pushes him to 6th on the list? By the time your looking at the 5-6th tight end do we see some of these young guys eclipsing his numbers? I guess it’s a matter of how the committee treats the pats dynasty. Coach and qb are mainstays that are easy to put in but is gronk a corner stone or a side kick in their minds?

Say he retires the same year as witten and Gates — what order do you have them going in?

If he ends up the 5th best of the era, and there are only 8 tight ends in the Hall to date— will voters stretch to pull in that many guys? Obviously the position has changed but the receiving nature of it puts him against a glut of WRs too.

With the ability to carry over you can still shove some down the line and save flexibility just in case. That only hurts if you spend recklessly to the limit and he flops... As someone noted- if 75m is guaranteed, that’s less than 3 years, so there’s almost certainly some sort of chance to get out after two

Without clicking is this list just “10 teams without a franchise qb” essentially? With maybe a team like the saints as the risqué surprise

Hed be behind a handful of guys from this era — gates, witten, Gonzalez are all ahead currently. jimmy graham might surpass him soon. Turns into a log jam and receivers will be competition for him too, with a glut there due to the passing explosion i think his post season records give him a nice bump but he’s probably 2-3 seasons off from slam dunk?