NoSaint
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Your assessment very much follows somewhat Mayak's ranking of players. Dareus is in his #1 spot. Subject to change of course. My leanings with our pick are Gabbert/Newton. More and more I get the sense that Gailey wants Newton. Just my intuition kicking in.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81eb95ea/Mayock-s-Top-16-prospects?module=HP_cp2
If cam passes all the tests I could see him being the pick, I just don't have the access it takes to make a real educated guess on a guy like him. Physically it's all there. I'm curious the breakdown of what he can do vs what he was asked to do (ie making reads primarily).
Also I don't love the auburn coaches/program. I think it's hard to get a read on cam and fairley as I have a feeling a lot of the things that turn me off about their games/skillset/reputation come from their program and possibly not their abilities or personalities. Hard to say though without spending time with them like nix and gailey will.
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he's not as tall as Cromartie, has even better hands, and is faster and way more explosive. At 10 lbs heavier he's also more physical. This guy can take over a game, Cromartie cannot. So unless he has a dozen kids or something I don't see the Cromartie comparison as best.
And btw, when was Revis inaugrated into the HoF? I know he's highly regarded around the league, but I had no idea he's already in after 4 seasons and while still being active. Congrats!!
Joe - you compared him to Deion not revis. last I checked Deion IS in the hall.
I said the cromartie comparison is probably better than revis or even Deion. The cromartie came with a more physical tag if you read the post. He's got a big frame, fast, makes picks but isn't considered a shutdown guy. Not everything has to be a perfect match - but as a generalization I think Peterson will rack up some picks, make some probowls but not be a hall of famer - kind of like cro. I don't think he is going to dominate every week, but I think he will rack up some outstanding games along the way. Is it an insult to say he might not be the best corner ever, But just a very good one?
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That your best counter-argument: sarcasm and putting words in my mouth?
Pretty funny from a guy who's been hyping Newton
As my post about 5 mins ago said in the dareus thread - I'm glad I don't have to choose on newton. If nix and chan stake their legacies on that pick I think it will speak volumes. If they don't, I think it'll likewise. In the right spot he could be great, in the wrong he could be awful. I happen to think we have one of the better spots with fitz and chan.
I just have never seem you compare pp7 to anyone but hall of fame players. Honestly I think the cromartie one in this thread is probably far more accurate then the deion one. Realistically- do you think he will be a top 50 all time player like Deion? Do you think he is probable for the hall of fame? I'm just trying to pin down where you think he stacks up based on the comparisons and certainty he is the best player coming out
Alas, I'm probably too busy drooling over cam to have a coherent opinion.
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Reasons why Quinn does and Dareus doesn't?
Depending on what comes of everything, Quinn might be a once in a generation talent. I'm not saying he is, but he might be. That size coupled with the speed that is rumored but not shown at the combine. If he has the speed and strength, the work ethic that it takes to come back from a brain tumor- the leverage of a 3x state champion wrestler... He might have that all time great upside.
I kind of group cam and Quinn together as huge potential but huge question marks that I'm glad I don't have to decide on. Dareus is #1 for me on the normal player rankings while those two I don't pretend to rate somewhere right now...If you say yes on that potential they are 1-2, if you say maybe or no.... I don't touch them with a 10 ft pole.
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I'm not disagreeing with you but I haven't seen anything to make me compare the two. McKelvin's problems I think are in his head. I hate to call a guy out but I think he performed VERY poorly on the wonderlick. So far I haven't heard or seen anything from Peterson that would make me put him in that category.
What have you seen that makes you think he is McKelvin 2.0 other than the similar great physical tools you sited?
I think the part where superior return skills and athleticism are hiding sometimes suspect coverage skills. I think that pp7 is one of those guys that will have to learn the intricacies of footwork and no wasted steps. His hips might get him into trouble still. In college his speed and size helped hide some questions from coming up. I think some electric plays helped hide some missing pieces. Will he be very good? Probably. I don't think the he's clearly revis at corner and reed at safety posts are at all fair to anyone though.
He wont be a "shadow" like Revis, but he has better hands, closing speed and big play ability. That will scare the crap out of teams throwing against him, like a Deion. And at 6'1", 220 he's considerably bigger than both, making him more versatile and physical.
Joe- you seem to really love him so ive got to ask- What size should his HoF jacket be with those measurements? Is it possible he won't be a HoF player?
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I wouldn't compare him to McKelvin in any way. He's taller, 35lbs heavier, and quicker. I don't think he's a shut down corner either, but he's going to be very good in press coverage, and can play safety. He can also shift down and play LB in certain situations. The problem is at 184lbs McKelvin should be quick enough to be a shut down corner, but don't take that out on Peterson.
I would compare Peterson to Cromartie, but a willing tackler, if he plays corner. Or I could see him in an Ed Reed type of role, if he plays safety.
I think the poster was saying much like mckelvin he got the label shutdown corner by scoring on kick returns. It's easy to forget giving up catches while your watching highlights of him scoring. Against better teams he was a little uneven in his play- I don't have the numbers in front of me but he gave up like 90 yards and a td to Julio jones, gave up like 8 catches in the bowl game, mallet threw for close to 350 against lsu....
Against the big boys he wasn't a shutdown corner, but he did make plays. I think anyone that expects shutdown revis style play is mistaken. He kind of like your reference to cromartie will use his big frame and speed to make plays and picks but he's not the crazy technician with no wasted steps and balls never going his way.
I think like mckelvin he might be overdrafted (or slide further then expected) because of much of his hype coming from the return game and what he does with the ball in his hands. Quite frankly at 3 I'd rather a guy that seals off his side of the field than a guy that plays well with the ball in his hands.
Like I said in the shoutbox, i live in new Orleans and work with several former lsu players, family of current players, and have seen almost every game he's played. I'm not some schmuck who saw a pp7 for heisman clip on YouTube. He's a real good player but top ten talent and far and away number one pick are not the same thing. Some team will be happy to get him early but I promise you we would regret it at 3.
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honestly theres not a lot in the way of options here. neither side is starting a new league. you are looking at either a new CBA being reached, or a court decision. how long that takes is anyones guess, and who ends up on top is uncertain, but odds are the owners get a little bit back, just a matter of how much.
there are ways they might be able to play without a final outcome being reached, but that would be same owners, same players, same rules.
there really isnt a nuclear option on the table anywhere. the most radical plays have already been made with the decert, and lockout.
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the owners can end the lock out, release every player and reoffer them individual contracts. no "official union" to contend with. stage a tv event to redraft veterns. if they want to play they can, if not they don't have to. their choice. Blow it up and see how the players like the new nfl. and we the fan get football.
nope -- without the union you are looking at the draft, salary caps etc... as all being collusion. it would be a disaster.
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There is no way the owners give up all those revenues!
literally, they are legally not allowed to play an nfl game with the owners lockout official. if they lifted the lockout they would have to play with the nflpa players, at the terms of the last cba or last offer... regardless, no substitute players are options. (i post that as a quick and dirty explanation for why this question is not relevant- there are many subtleties and it could change going forward but this is a good enough cliffnotes version of whats going on)
this is not players crossing a player drawn line in the sand. the owners have said you are not welcome to play if this is the deal we are playing under.
Can it be mandatory?? North Carolina for example is a "Right to Work State" menaing you can't be forced to join a union even one exists where you work. I believe there are other similar states. So how would that work??
Section 1. Union Security:
Every NFL player has the option of joining or not joining the NFLPA; provided, however, that as a condition of employment commencing with the execution of this Agreement and for the duration of this Agreement and wherever and whenever legal: (a) any active player who is or later becomes a member in good standing of the NFLPA must maintain his membership in good standing in the NFLPA; and (b) any active player (including a player in the future) who is not a member in good standing of the NFLPA must, on the 30th day following the beginning of his employment or the execution of this Agreement, whichever is later, pay, pursuant to Section 2 below or otherwise to the NFLPA, an annual service fee in the same amount as any initiation fee and annual dues required of members of the NFLPA.
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"I also worry about building a 34 line based on penetration not gap control."
So you're wanting to pick a gap control player at #3? To me, that's a crazy thing to do. You can find gap guys in the later rounds if that's what you want. The #3 pick is supposed to be all about having a huge impact and playmaking ability, not gap control.
Players like Quinn, Fairley, Peterson, Green, Miller (though I'm not big on him), and even a guy like Newton. These are all #3 overall "impact" type players, not role players like a gap filler. Dareus is this year's Gerald McCoy, nice player but will never be an impact guy like Suh.
sorry? a guy that holds the point and sets the edge while making plays against two lineman, and is versatile enough for 2 schemes would not be a terrible 3 pick (now which one i just described probably depends which you like more), but yes - i understand your point. a guy that just stands in one place is not a great value at 3. I dont think there are any of those being discussed though. Both guys are premiere talents in this league potentially. One has a rep for the flashier plays in the backfield out of a 43, and one has experience as a 5 tech end in a 34(which coincidentally is what we need!). I think that they are far closer in value than fairley fans on this board like to admit. that is not to say that fairley is a bad talent or wont be wildly successful. I just think that some people have fairley a notch high, and dareus a shade low, and as the offseason goes on the "experts" will balance the guys out. ive been saying that since the week of the title game, and i think its proven to be an accurate assessment so far....
i also dont think that what our line needs is another KW penetrator. If we get a guy that can do that, and keep linebackers clean, it would give some nice versatility, but at some point, those linebackers need to not be taking on 300+ lbs lineman. at three you want a complete player for your scheme, and not just a penetrator either. so which has the best balance between the two sets of responsibility?
when you are looking at our talent, scheme, etc.... dareus might be a shade ahead, when you look at rareness of skillset fairley might be a shade ahead. im all for bpa, but i dont think the gap between them is huge, on a 34 line especially.
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Go ask the quarterbacks in the SEC about that...LOL
I think he's very good but I'm not sure who the premiere guard or center he lined up against were. I also would say more then a handful of those qb hits cost his team yards.
I would be happy with him at 3, but like I said, theres no clear front runner in this draft. I also worry about building a 34 line based on penetration not gap control. Im not saying he or Kyle Williams can't hold the point but it certainly doesn't play to their skills that are special.
I don’t think much of it was knee jerk, but my 90% estimate im sure is a bit high. There is a good 5-6 week lead up to that title game and a lot of that talk was before the game – so obviously it couldn’t be influenced by it because it pre-dated it. After the game everyone did jump on his bandwagon though – but for good reason. Id like to have people get behind a draft pick after a GAME, rather than after a combine workout or pro day. IMO post combine is when Dareus over-took Fariley. I think that 99% of that is because Dareus weighed in at 320 and Fairly 290 something, because they were both equally impressive in the drills.
I think that if you realistically go back to November mocks you'd be hard pressed to find him higher than 7-8 and many in the teens. That said, it's a November mock so I'm not arguing he's the 14th best player - just that his stock bumped up a lot. That Georgia game left a foul taste in a lot of peoples mouths and he certainly wasn't in many top 5s at that point.
I also think you saw analysts starting to back dareus before the combine. I know a few high profile guys did in feb and made it much easier to discuss the two comparatively. It seemed the mood here changed early February - or atleast dareus was picking up momentum while fairly started to dip.
In the end I think they are pretty even with dareus maybe fitting our schemes better
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NFLPA still exists as a "Trade Organization" and I'm pretty sure that by getting drafted you have previously signed papers saying that you are member of the NFLPA once drafted. The NFL is a regulated monopoly and the NFLPA is mandatory for all players so I think you have to sign up for membership as part of entering the draft.
So I think they would have to fill the rosters with replacement UDFA, and rookies could chose to scab and cross the picket lines like any player could choice to do, but I don't think its very likely. At least not in September, maybe as this theoretical season goes on more players would cross the line, but we have a long way until that happens.
Again, correct me if I'm wrong but the owners can not legally put on an NFL game with the paperwork they have filed. So regardless of a players status, unless NFL owners start a new league, it isn't happening.
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Without the NFLPA, would these replacements even be considered scabs? The NFL would have no obligation to its former players since I assume at this point they are considered "at will" employees. The NFL would have games to put on TV thus keeping that important revenue fowling, even if they might have to offer partial rebates. I have to wonder if the owners don't have a similar plan in their back pockets?
PTR
At this point it not the players refusing to play, it's the owners refusing to open the doors. Means no games at all. Much different than 87.
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We should be good. There are alot of other teams ahead of us for most likely to relocate. For a while I thought it was Jax, but looks like Minnesota moved into the lead. Stadium is a mess, and they are alot of nay sayers about building a new stadium for them. Also, I think San Diego is up there. The move would alienate their fan base alot less being pretty close to LA (something that will be taken into consideration), their stadium also sucks, and there is plenty of competition already in the Bay Area.
one thing i enjoy (and im not saying your post did this) is the fact that so many bills fans think that a move from SD to LA is just common sense, but buffalo to toronto is offensive. just something to think about.
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I fell the exact same way. I rarely change my opinion on a player after the season is over, and at the end of alst season Id say 90% had Fairley as far and away better. I still feel that he is the better of the two, and I hope thats who we get. If he is gone, my second option is Dareus, so it is close, but Fairley is better.
to that effect - how much of that 90% was just knee jerk off the title game, with no actual familiarity with his film, lack of a body of work, or personality question marks. they saw three big plays and got real excited.
i would say among the people that saw a lot of college ball during the season, and last year the consensus was much more split. i know at times i had to toe the line to even broach the subject of liking dareus, because if i in any way suggested fairley wasnt perfect the discussion would devolve real fast. i had a strong feeling as everything played out they would get to about even, or even dareus SLIGHTLY ahead. fairley just had such a huge bump from the title game, that he was bound to settle back down to the rest of the pack once emotion dipped. i think in a 43 fairley is your man, and 34 dareus is the choice at the top. i dont see either going 1st, and 3 of the next 4 picks are 34 teams, so i wont be surprised if dareus is the first off the board. either could slide out of the top 5 easily though. we will see how visits go and how things start slotting when players come off the board.
ive said it quite a few times but i would say that this draft has no clear top 5 but about 15 guys that would fit into that 5-10 range any given year. with so many being so tightly grouped, and no clear picks at the sexy positions of QB, or LT... if a team passes at a guy at 2-3 he could slide to 10 really quickly, and if somebody decides a guy fits their system i think they will be willing to reach a little further then normal as the gap between 2 and 8 is smaller then normal.
it wouldnt be jaw dropping to see 2 qbs, and dareus in the top 3 picks and if thats the case you are looking at bowers, fairley, green, peterson -- all sure thing #1 best player in the draft guys at some point this offseason slipping to atleast number 7 assuming they are the next 4 off the board. slide in guys like von miller, quinn and suddenly one of those guys could slide to 9. where as most years you see small groupings of 3-4 guys that may shuffle between each other but you know who the top 3 are, who 4-7 are roughly even if you cant put them in order, again the same for 8-12 but this year it it appears this year is just one big group of about 10. right now fairley could go 1 or 8 just as easily. itll make for an interesting draft i think.
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nope - no games can happen under the current lockout. its not that players are refusing to play, its that owners are refusing to let them.
that said, i mean that with no slant or negativity towards either side, just a stark difference in "crossing the line" when the line is being drawn by the owners not the players.
and all that said, this could change dramatically as days go by. its a very fluid situation.
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Am I the only one who enjoyed the replacement games in 1987? OK, the games were about as well played as high school football, but I like high school football! I still remember the Giants-Bills game in Buffalo - the game where Lawrence Taylor crossed the picket line to play. It was a fun game - was it Todd Schlopy who kicked the winning field goal for Buffalo? Or how about the Monday Night game where Bill Walsh had his replacement quarterback run the option for the 49ers, and all Bill Parcells could do was laugh. Who would have thought that 20 years later the wildcat would be so popular?
I've read that during the last CBA, both sides agreed that they wouldn't use replacement players. But now that there is no union, isn't that agreement out the window?
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I'm a fan of the city, the team colors, and the logo. As long as the players wearing Buffalo's uniform get them to the playoffs, I'm OK with that...
An ironic twist of fate- by acquiring free agency the players have hurt personal relationships to their fans. In 3 years most teams turn over 90% of their rosters anyway- atleast it seems. It forces you to be a fan of the city more then the men in the uniforms.
I know I'd still watch.
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Unless you are a contender, week 1 matters little. If you are a contender you don't have glaring holes. Either way you should be drafting for a year or two out ideally. Any contribution before should be considered lagniappe. That's why drafting for need and not BPA is silly for most cases. 2 years from now, between injuries and free agency, you don't know much about your needs. Take your guy - regardless of position this year. The one exception being immature guys that'll get into trouble left alone for a summer ala lynch. That said, you avoid that when possible anyway.
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Laughing out loud. Love that you care so much about what I think. Maybe you should boycott this site so you don't have to read my posts. Oh wait, that's right, my posts aren't affecting your life at all. I love how people react to something they don't agree with. That's why I do it.
It's not that I disagree with the idea of an economic boycott of something you feel strongly about.... It's just that's not what you are describing or remotely able to accomplish with the strategy you describe. You are simply making a moral stand. If its that important to you, more power to you. There's just a laundry list of reasons that your plan isn't very effective ultimately. First and foremost being the reaction that is clearly solicited. If it's hard to get people on board for the idea, it's even more unlikely to get people to follow through. It's far easier to organize a merchandise or concession boycott if you are determined to follow through. Things that are tangible in the immediate. If jersey sales dipped 30% this march/April vs last year, that's a much larger message than people that aren't on monitored tvs changing the channel in September... Even boycotting something like the draft is more likely to accomplish because people are not as tied to viewing the product as they are viewing the game. Hell, like I've said time and again- organize viewing parties nationally and you are far more likely to impact ratings if that's your goal. Again though, it's clear that I am to stupid to understand either economics, or psychology.....
And with words like "punishment" in previous posts, I see why people get the impression you are angry. you even explicitly referenced that they had taken something away from you. what that is, none of us seem to understand.
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I am not the least bit angry. And by the way, your arguments don't hold water at all. TV viewers have all the power when it comes to ratings and advertising revenues. If nobody watches, then advertisers will not pay the rates that the NFL is used to and believe me the league owners will feel the pain. If the league doesn't get the money from the networks in the next contract that they are used to, then the players will be affected as well. And in most markets, you can buy single game tickets to almost every game at some point during the pre-season or season, so please don't tell me about wasting tickets that are already paid for. I am proposing that we as fans, who do, by the way hold all the economic power to shut this league down, let both parties know that we are the ones that pay the bills. If we do this, both parties will think twice about ever having another work stoppage. It is a very simple concept and a very powerful one. If you are not on board, then go ahead and feed the beast, it's your right. I for one, won't be watching this bunch of greedy individuals any more. I have a family and I enjoy lots of other interests besides NFL football.
You do realize it is very likely that your tv isnt used in ratings calculations? And if it is, you could have the same effect going to the local sports bar for the game?
"There are only 25,000 total American households that participate in the Nielsen daily metered system. The number of U.S. television households as of 2009 is 114,500,000.[12] As a result, the total number of Nielsen homes only amounts to 0.02183% of the total American television households, meaning that 99.97817% of American households have no input at all into what is actually being watched."
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"The average fan punishes themselves by not using tickets that are mostly paid for - by turning off games to hurt ratings they have no effect on." I'm crying BS on this one. Noone suggested fans not use tickets that are already paid for. And fans have a huge impact on TV ratings. And if you don't understand that, then you are a fool and further discussion is pointless. And yes, it is my right to respond to whomever I choose to and ignore whomever I choose to. If you don't like that, then I'm sorry for you. And once again, another idiot fails to understand what I am proposing. If you don't think the current situation is pathetic and deserving of economic retaliation, then once again, I am sorry for you. It has nothing to do with my personal life. I don't like the way a company is being run and I am proposing consumers not patronize their product to let them know we disapprove. Simple as that. If you don't agree, fine, then that is your right, do your thing and I will do mine and encourage others to follow.
As a matter of fact, no it wouldn't. Damned is the proper way to spell the word and to use it in this context. And just for the record, I love football. I just don't find it so essential in my life that I can't live without it. I don't believe in what the players and owners are doing and I propose we as fans use our economic might and let them know we dont' approve. Again, I have no grudge against anyone who disagrees. If you want to continue to be ignored and taken for granted, then fine, do your thing. But just think of the power we as fans have. If no one went to the games, and no one watched on TV, the networks, the owners and the league would lose millions and you can bet there would never again be a work stoppage. They would stop taking you for granted and ensure that the product that you love is never again put in jeopardy.
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You mean a renegotiation of a deal? Unless you are glued to the tv for every detail, it really doesn't effect any of us, or the product on the field yet.
Now for the nuts and bolts of your argument- I live in a market with a 60,000 person waitlist for season tickets, with more than a 99% renewal rate already this year. Boycotting games amounts to abandoning paid for tickets. Next up, my tv isn't monitored by neilsen for ratings. Turning it off has no effect.
Next - even if you did find a way to touch the bottom line or make a statement - you know with examples I've given like boycotting jerseys.... Do you think either side is going to say "wow WE really screwed this up" - nope. It's going to be "wow, THEY really screwed this up."
Instead of just being angry, you can take a deep breathe and realize the only people you are hurting with this plan are people that enjoy watching the game (ie yourself). Me not tuning in will literally have no effect on anyone but me. but alas, I guess we are all too stupid to understand.
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"NFL owners walked away from the negotiating table Wednesday when the NFL Players Association proposed to take an average of 50 percent of all revenue generated by the league, according to player sources."
BillsVet, The above quote was taken from an ESPN written story. I didn't include the link because the story was very long.
The above quote shows that you have your facts in reverse. The players offered to take 50% of the revenue without any cut outs of revenue before taking a 59% cut. The owners said absolutely not and walked out.
As I stated to another poster having a different perspective on this topic is understandable. However, in order to have a productive and respectful discussion it is important to get the facts correct. I'm not making this point to be personaly critical. You are one of the better posters on this board. But your version of what was offered and what was rejected was upside down and inaccurate.
You do realize that "cut" would end up be the same or more money any given year? De smith really tried the bridge the gap with that one.
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The players have been getting a progressively larger share of the pie. One of the reasons for that is because, as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, neither the players nor the owners of many big market teams really like the idea of a salary cap. The owners of high revenue teams want to be able to outspend their low revenue counterparts!
The fact that the owners weren't united with each other in the past is why things got as out of hand as they have, and is why the players have gotten too big for their britches. In a down economy with bills coming due, the owners have clearly realized they messed up during the last CBA, and that it's time to reclaim some of the ground they surrendered. It's necessary for the owners to do exactly that, but it's not going to be a quick or painless process.
Honestly one of the best posts I've seen on the subject.
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Funny how those businesses seem to survive in non NFL cities. No doubt that game days give them a boost, but maybe they need to think of other ways to attract customers instead of depending on the Bills to do it for them.
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It's amazing how you cherry pick points to respond to. And even in doing so totally neglect formulating practical answers. Yes, in an ideal world you only hit the NFL pocketbooks. In the real world, not so. Also, I believe every league including the NFL has seen the revenue dip after a lockout and it hasnt stopped them from happening again and again. The owners would blame the players and the players blame the owners. They would all be gainfully employed and then some, and everyone from ticket sales reps, scouts, vendors, that are living paycheck to paycheck get put through the ringer. The average fan punishes themselves by not using tickets that are mostly paid for - by turning off games to hurt ratings they have no effect on. Your better off telling people that they should go to the local sports bar and pump money into the local community while enjoying the games, camaraderie and quite frankly still not effecting the ratings or tv revenue unless they are neilsen homes.
boycott jerseys if you want something that can be immediate, tangible and doesn't take away from your own enjoyment of the game. Still hurts employees in those factories but that's unavoidable In a boycott - atleast it's minimized.
Your entire premise is sour grapes and poorly thought out.
Through this all you haven't addressed how this remotely effects your life at this point though. What exactly are you seeking vengeance for? Not a single practice has been missed, yet alone game. Is the delay to FA hitting you especially hard?
Peterson to visit Bills
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
When you group him with the guys you do and gush about his ability like you do it's easy to slide the best corner ever into the comment unfairly, and perhaps I did go to far with it. If I went to far, I apologize but I haven't heard you back down from him being under that all time elite grouping. I am still curious where you forecast his career as going. You consistently compare him to all time greats and players that have put up best ever type seasons. Clearly you see probowls- hall of fame? Possibly all time NFL team potential?
I also think that tho more physical then cro he still is just a willing participant in the run game, not an eager hitter that seeks contact. I still think that he bites on double moves trying to make big plays more then he should. Gives up comebacks too much in order to protect deep. I know those last two contradict but when the routes break he isn't near flawless at guessing right, and has been tricked especially by better teams. I think he plays conservative giving guys like Julio jones cushion and short catches and playing risky against teams like mcneese. He gave up a lot of catches that you don't like to see a top corner give up. He also made a lot of plays that top corners don't. Ultimately I'm splitting hairs between an A and an A+ not passing and failing.