NoSaint
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So am I. Last I checked Lynch has every right to own 2 puppies of whatever dog he chooses, and will be bound by the same laws regarding those animals every else on his block is bound by. What about that scenario makes it "All about him"
and pitts are against most HOA agreements. So I'm not sure your point- no one on the block can have them, but the association is out to get him? That sounds self absorbed and like a guy that doesn't understand the world around him, and due to that feels persecuted
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What would be fair ## for a deal with him?
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im not trying to disparage her skills in any way. she's a more qualified sailor than i could ever be. still doesnt mean it's a good idea to send a 16 year old around the world in a boat on their own. unless everyone is fine with her dying. and based on the father's comments, it sounds like they were. to each their own, im fine with that. it's just strange to see parents being ok with sending their child to their death.
being ok with her death, and believing she can do it are two very different things.
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oh, i was thinking about the route backwards. if she made it through there, i give her a ton of credit. still a stupid idea.
not necessarily directed at you -- but what if on the flip side, the boat malfunctioned and it turns out her skills are what saved her, instead of assuming she wasnt ready for this type of experience.
None of us have any clue what her ability was, besides the fact that it was higher then any of us seem to be able to gauge... the people closest to her supported her, and whether or not they were wrong is yet to be seen.just because something happened didnt mean she wasnt ready.
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i think the question is somewhat slanted. the same question can be asked in this sense: was Schobel that bad?
a better way to phrase it, to be objective, would be "Rate Schobel's tenure."
but i'm picking nits, i guess.
the answer, i think to all of those questions was he was better than average and worthy of his two Pro Bowl selections. adequate pass-rushing defensive ends are hard to find, especially ones that can average 8-plus sacks a season. given how messed up the Bills defense was during part of Schobel's tenure, i think it's a testament to how better than average that he was.
was he in the Jason Taylor caliber? no. there's nothing wrong with that. and he wasn't in the Erik Flowers' caliber either. and that's not an altogether unfair comparison given that Flowers was a late first round pick and Schobel selected in the second.
those posters, however, who label Schobel as "a tool" etc. seem to do so from the comfort of their knee-jerk anonymity because it's far easier to be negative, and especially on the intrawebs, where few really have to justify their opinions, so long as they have them, and so long they're as outrageous as possible to get noticed.
but really, what's the point of having a reasoned discussion when being a blowhard is much easier.
jw
I think thats roughly where many of us assess him - i do think hes much closer to a Taylor then most want to admit - but like i said, taylor forced more turnovers, and those are game changing plays... Taylor also is a household name dancing with the stars, espn interviews, he played in miami which is a big market -- he embraced being a star... people got to know the man that is jason taylor, or atleast felt like they did.
i think that difference answers why there arent many 94 jerseys in the stands, as someone earlier mentioned... it was hard to relate to schobel as a person. We dont know who he really is, and you see comments about him being a strange breed of man. ultimately i think that skews a lot of peoples opinions of his play too. We like what we can relate to.
I do wonder what he couldve been on a better team though.....
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Not really, Bruce and others didnt play their whole career on playoff contenders with great Defense around them.
Its too easy of an argument to say schobel is better then we think bc his team sucked. Great players make the players around them better.
Jason taylor for example has racked up sacks on some pretty bad teams.
Taylor played 4 more years, if you tack on 4 years at last years production for schobel, there careers are VERY similar -- taylor with more turnovers, but from OLB i imagine its a little easier to get those. the sack numbers would be identical.
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Best summary yet on this topic. He was very good, but some of the posts (he'd have been a HOFer on another team??) are a little over the top.
Apparently the standard for "classy" in the NFL is anyone who doesn't get arrested for drugs, guns, wife beating/rape or running over people with your car.
How many DEs put up a better decade?
Tack another 3-4 productive years (ie he continues, and plays like he did last year instead of retiring), and hes at well over 100 sacks.
If you put him on a big market team with playoff appearances, or heaven forbid a ring..... not to mention playing for a team that often has the lead would have inflated his numbers. Yes, in a better situation, he might have found himself in those discussions. I am certainly not saying based on the career he has had today he is borderline, but he might have played himself into those talks on another team -- he might have pissed off the coach with his lack of leadership and been a journeyman too, mostly i was just saying hes had a stellar career, and its sad we ask "was he really that good?"
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You noted in a prior posting that JB is asking for a contract commensurate with an all-pro status. With the number of good players on their roster I don't see the Saints being able to accommodate him and still be within the cap or have his gilded contract not limit their options signing other players, including players currently on their roster. The NFL today is about contracts/value and player movement.
A couple years ago the Ravens had Ray Lewis and A. Thomas contract up for re-doing at the same time or nearly the same. The front office knew they couldn't keep both. The Ravens decided to let A. Thomas go and getting nothing for him. He then signed a very rich contract with the Pats. As it turned out A. Thomas didn't work out in NE and Ray Lewis continued to be a central player on defense for the Ravens. As usual Ozzie Newsome, one of the best GMs in the game, made the right decision.
The point I'm making is even if the Saints like JB they might not be able to keep him unless they knock their cap management out of balance. Sometimes when a high profile player is cut that doesn't necessarily mean you are getting nothing in return. What you are getting is more cap room to make other personnel moves.
Hes an RFA -- unless he plans to sit for the year or sign a new contract, hes playing for peanuts for this year. He has a lot to prove if he wants that big deal after this year, sitting or dogging it ala peters wont work for him. I dont know that he wants the 10-12 mill a year all pro contract but he wants one to reflect that he is a potential probowler still.
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The guy was fast off the edge and I can still see him intercepting the Brady throw and running in for a touchdown last year in the first game and it could be that he was on teams that were not real good for an entire decade.
I, however, don't feel as if he was that great. I never heard of him being a great leader in the lockerroom, his sacks weren't exactly timely or clutch, and it seemed like he was injured quite a bit especially during the last two or three years.
He was a solid Bill and played hard when he was in there but this does not seem like as big a loss as the media is making it. Hope I don't have to eat these words.
How many sacks did he have last year? Career? Compare his numbers to some peers the last ten years... If he wasn't in buffalo, this would be a nightly special on sportcenter, but he's a quiet guy, buffalo is a small town with losing team. If he put the same numbers up in NE, NY etc and went to the playoffs a few times, and was a better interview.... we'd be asking if he was a hof player if he sticks around a few more years instead of if he was that good.
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Lynell Hamilton isn't a terrible 3 for the saints backfield. A trade for marshawn would be to replace PT in the long term, having him this year is a perk of getting something done now.
Lance Moore is, as the other poster said, expendable because of meacham. Essentially pushing a very good player due for a contract to the bench. He has proven to be better then a 3 or 4 and will expect to be paid as better then a 3 or 4 -- wrong year for him to deal with a lingering injury. It left him in a tough place contract wise.
As for brown, the saints don't let him walk for nothing. The team doesn't believe that bushrod is a reliable superbowl LT, brown is -- unfortunately they don't believe they he is worth what it would take to keep him. Leaves them trying to maximize his value to the team. A year with him, or 5 with marshawn? If you doubt that the team worries about bushrod tho, watch what Demarcus ware and an injured Dwight freeney did to bushrod. Imagine how different that game is with freeney healthy. It's also forgotten or glossed over that bushrod was benched for the TB game mid season. The road to the superbowl in the NFC has the cowboys, and vikes (ie ware and allen) and the saints play them both in the regular season, likely the playoffs too. Even if it's just buying a year for Charles brown, Jamaal has value in new Orleans this year, he will not be cut, I promise you that.
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Sorry, I thought it was pretty clear.
By saying he's not coming back, and assuming he keeps his word (either he plays for Buffalo or does not play), he's attempting to force the Bills to make his retirement decision for him.
is there some benefit to doing that? besides some sort of ego/pride -- is there financial implications with say a signing bonus etc... depending on how this plays out?
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I think the front office also has to be sure that Brown is a better player than what they have now and going forward because if comes in one of either Bell or Meredith doesn't make the team.
Brown is a probowl left tackle, coming off one season on IR. Bell got beaten like a drum last year. I dont think Brown is going to make the AFC probowl squad if he comes to Buffalo, but he is the real deal. Like i said, some back issues that might come up down the line (but big men tend to have that prob) and takes a few too many penalties -- otherwise, among the best in the league, and you are comparing him to guys that would be borderline cuts at best on any other team.
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my bad, the "J. Brown" did not register in my brain while i was reading quickly.
the other thing that i think people miss which might be a good throw in for buffalo is Lance moore. it has been discussed many times in the local media that the brown and moore might be part of a package deal to someone -- Another RFA, could be a 2/3 receiver on this team.... Great route runner, probably the best hands on the saints.
also the schobel "its up to buffalo" comment seems ominous about wanting to get dealt. He couldnt want more money, and it wouldnt be practical to be expecting Buff to play 4-3, so what exactly would be up to the bills to do?
schobel and lynch for brown and moore?
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I have no idea when or how many times people have been run over but I do KNOW every single Bills game I have been to you don't have to look to far to find EXTREMELY loud music, a fight or drunken idiots who really are in need of policing more so than a player and employee leaving the stadium. I unfortunately don't see cops telling the heavy metal beer bonging guy next to me in the lot to take it down a notch. I even like metal but come on. Guess they are too busy telling players to keep a lid on it or alleging that a multimillionaire stole $20 from their wife.
And yes, without question anyone should be responsible for their own actions regardless of how those actions come to light. The problem is that it causes animosity between those who get preferential treatment and those who don't. We are all equal in the eyes of the law right? WRONG, because the eyes of the law belong to people of different colors and cultures!
Follow the logic here and do the math:
1) A majority of most peoples friends and family are of the same race as they are. (Check)
2) People show preferential treatment to friends, family and people like themselves. (Check)
3) Cops are people (Check)
4) Many cops are white. (Check)
PLEASE I don't think all or many cops are racist but they are all human. I don't think this phenomena is racist but in many instances the end result can be the same.
I acknowledged that bias very directly, and agree that bias based on many things not just race is very natural. Whether it be race, gender, religion, or even weight ---- appearance and experience with the group is naturally going to cloud your judgement in a decision on how to deal with someone. The thing is, its not like he hasnt screamed look at me. I havent heard Fred Jackson complaining about the same treatment. Has he ever been pulled over unnecessarily? maybe, but nothing came of it but a quick inconvenience. Not ok, but a whole different vein of this discussion.
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If the issue was as simple as trading Lynch for JB I would quickly take it. Brown would certainly fill a critical need and his addition would add depth to the line. Using Bell and Merideth as backups and having them fill in would certainly be a better way to develop them as opposed to just throwing them in and hoping that they can handle their positions. What the front office needs to know is whether JB could come to satisfactory contract agreement with the Bills. My understanding is that his contract runs out after this season. Another consideration is how healthy or impaired is he?
As it stands I strongly suspect the Saints might cut JB if they can't deal him. Last year they rotated a couple players to fill the LT spot, with the young player (Bushrod) getting most of the playing time. In addition, the Saints drafted LT Charles Brown from USC in the second round so they have that position well staffed, even without JB.
word is brown is upset for being IR'ed because he felt he could come back and play. If thats an indicator, health isnt as big an issue as some might think. He is currently an RFA so yes, it is a one year deal right now, and a deal he doesnt want to play under. He is looking for probowl LT money, long term. He has had concerns about back issues for years, which is worrisome at his age when making that commitment. Also, you might pull your hair out with untimely penalties, he seems to be a master. All that said, as a starter on day one he is much better then ANYONE else on the line. All a matter of how long you believe he can play at that level.
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I don't know about the extremely brittle comment. Heck, you get hit enough by a 300 pound defensive lineman and you would get injured as well.
Not making excuses for him just pointing out that getting hit a lot has its consequences.i dont know how many games he missed but the 100+ sacks, and probably closer to 200 hits he took in such a short period add up quickly. id almost venture to say he was tough for not missing more when you look at the shear volume of hits (even if they were his own fault).
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Could that have anything to do with Marshawn's running people over and leaving the scene problem?
I'm no big fan of law enforcement either...But if there is anyone I would appreciate the Cops paying close attention to it's Lynch...He's an idiot...
i know cops let me slide on weapons, drug, and hit and run charges frequently. i like to think its because they identify with me.
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Who said anything about a "trade for a RB who is demanding a new, big contract", I'm talking about a trade of Lynch for a left tackle who is demanding a new, big contract. I'm all running backed out at this point.
in all the talk of trades for a RB in new orleans, i havent heard anyone say they want to send pierre out of town. I think he is playing here, either one year, or four, and whoever they trade for would be in order to let him walk next year.
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I bet Marshawn was the only Bill that plays his music loud. Riiiiiiight. He might however have been the only one to get pulled over for it. Athletes, celebrities, politicians people in positions of power have been getting preferential treatment for YEARS. I'm so glad our law enforcement officers are making sure Lynch's music is not too loud while drunks and idiots are getting in fights and running people over with their vehicles a few yards away. Way to keep the peace and show that Marshawn he is not welcome.
Way to focus on what's important! And you wonder why the guy wants out of the city. I can agree with you 100% about getting punks out of the league but lets get them ALL out. Not just the ones that coincidentally have dread locks and gold teeth and don't listen to the same music as you. Let's get all of the clean cut suburban punks who are just smarter about hiding all of the bad things they do and even hire cops to be the muscle for their illegal and morally depraved escapades.
Cops don't like Lynch so every minor detail of anything bad he has done is not allowed to slide and is put in the news papers. Big Ben hires cops as muscle and is allowed to operate above the law for years because cops think he's cool. I don't mean to make this a rant about cops but when the law is exercised on the street it is an unfair abuse of power. Your buddy or relative gets a speeding ticket. You go talk to your fellow officer and somehow the ticket disappears. Pull over a guy for speeding who has dreads, is wearing a hoody and playing hip hop and not only does he get a ticket but you search the back seat and the trunk. Pull over a guy that looks like your golfing buddy and they get a warning. Cops have been known to FIGURATIVELY be judge, juror and executioner on the street. You let someone go because you identify with them and they are just a young guy that got into a little bind. You don't identify with them and they are a "thug". How about treat them all equally and let the actual court system and a judge make the determination of innocence or guilt.
Ya. The loud music would have annoyed me too but pulling the guy over for it and it's somehow national news now???? COME ON!!! Seriously?
I dont seem to remember hearing about all those people getting run over that after noon -- might you be doing the same thing and identifying with Marshawn?
In a crowd full of people bending and breaking the law, you can only be so shocked if you are the one to be asked to take it down a notch. If his music wasnt too loud in the first place, he wouldnt have been put in that position. His trunk wouldnt have been searched if he wasnt parked on the side of the street smoking..... is there bias? yes. do i think he needs to take personal responsibility for proving those cops right in their assumptions? yes. they could pull him over every day but without the gun, drugs, fact that he hit a woman etc.... he wouldnt find himself in the papers for any of those stops.
also, marshawns music being too loud was made into national news by marshawn himself. i dont remember that being reported until his interview a couple weeks ago.
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The problem is that Pierre Thomas wants to be paid like a starter, and the Saints are saying they won't pay him more than a backup. This one could actually get really ugly. The Saints can reduce his tender to $500,000 soon, and Thomas very well may hold out.
They are trying to give him Fred Jackson money, which if you look at his numbers and role, seems atleast ballpark for a starting point. We will see if the gap is as big as advertised. It was originally reported that he wanted Stephen Jackson money, now its rumored to be Michael Turner.... if its the difference between 4yrs 12 mill, and 4 years 16mill, it might not be that bad.
It is also rumored down here that Brown and lance moore are being shopped as a package -- what it would take in return, i dont know - Marshawn and a pick? Perhaps the name schobel does end up resurfacing?
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Nah. If the product isn't any better than the CFL or the Arena League or college, they won't be able to sell it for 10% of what they're getting now.
Both sides have some power. Both sides have something to lose.
Thats the thing though, it would be better then the CFL or the Arena league. The play would be better, the coaching better, the gameday experience better, the TV production and marketing would be better..... The owners would take a hit to, but the loss in comparison to what Joe Player would experience - peanuts.
Where the trouble for the owners comes in, is ones that have just built new stadiums (see jerry) and have loan payments to make. A team like the bills would not see that problem.
And if you think college football doesnt get a 1/10 of the NFL revenue -- Try to buy a ticket to any powerhouse game (Florida v Bama, USC v Notre Dame) and see what those run for. LSU season tickets are as much as my Saints tickets, and the TV contracts are right there on any of the elite programs. You would be selling a similar product, but without 100 powder puff teams to put on the schedule to water things down.
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I think both sides are being very hard headed letting this go farther then it had to. I think that both sides need to start deep negotiations now while they still have a year to come to a agreement. Owners feel like players salaries are increasing too fast and too many franchises are loosing money. While the players feel like their deals are already not guaranteed and that a cap didn't stop the rise in salaries.
Its all about a compromise that needs to be reach unfortunately both sides feel the other side is replaceable and wrong.
Its not that they are losing money, but to put it in real world terms, because frankly, on this issue it is entirely real world -- the team is an investment. A billion dollar investment needs to produce certain percentages of revenue or its not worth operating them. is the nfl making money? yes. if some of the owners sold there team and invested in other businesses would they make more revenue? probably. when you look at the cost of ownership they are HUGE (stadiums, salary, etc...), and the return on that in many cases is very small compared to what you would expect out of a company that size with that kind of capital investment.
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I pay to see the best football in the world. That doesn't exist without these players, but unless they have a secret plan to form an independent league for 2011, it doesn't exist without the owners, either.
It only exists in 2011 if they get together and strike a deal, and the details of that deal don't really concern me; the players are well paid and the owners make good profits. Separate from that, as long as there's revenue sharing and/or a salary cap that assures the teams will be on equal footing, I don't care. I don't care if the players share 99% of the revenue evenly team-by-team or 1%.
and thats the thing, without the players, the owners can still produce what would be the best football in the world -- even with lesser players, it would be better then any alternative... the players can not put on that show unless they all decide to go to the ufl and play for pennies on the dollar.
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For the last time people you can't compare the real world to the NFL at all. In the NFL the players are the only ones in the world that can do what they do at the level to which they do it. Comparing them to cashiers at a grocery store is not an apt comparison at all.
If you want to make a comparison to the real world (Which you shouldn't) it would be like if Intel's engineers had a labor union and they were the only people capable of designing they computer chips they used. Intel owns the equipment they use and the retail apparatus they use to market and make money off the chips they use. While the engineers are the only ones capable of doing what they do they need Intel to be able to do it and generate the money from what they make.
They need each other the owners can't replace the players and get the same ratings BUT the players have to realize they have no leverage in this situation either. They need the league to make the big money and the league needs them to put on the best product that makes the most money.
yea i get that you cant, and in most cases thats in the players favor, in this one it works against them. they are almost entirely disposable in a labor issue like this. my point that they are employees and not partners is understated by the cashier example.
the fine line that the average nfl player from the fringe nfl player is very small -- hence a team like buffalo can bring in guys off the street and still operate at 7-9, 6-10... against the nfl elite. look at the team a few years ago, several players off the street, several already out of the game already. it proved melvin fowler can be snapping the ball to jp losman and sell out a stadium, while throwing the ball to a peerless price 5 years removed from success. hell, a guy like fred jackson a few years ago would be exactly the type of player that is coming in to replace these guys. The quality might drop from NFL to SEC, but thats not near the disaster of dropping from NFL player to unemployed.
the players have NO ALTERNATIVE source of income. Outside a select few all are very ill prepared for a situation like this if it were to go to war.
Intels owner would be screwed if all its programmers left, ralph would not. theres a reason contracts arent guaranteed, and its because players are, as blunt as it sounds, disposable to the owners in this league.
Tapes of big ben
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Its one thing to say her story is spotty, but to say she didn't say no if that's really what she said? It implies you should probably reevaluate things in your life... you are in fact at high risk of sex offenses if that's where you stand.