NoSaint
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Its not baseball. The team owns the rights for the player. See Drew Henson, Jim Kelly, ect. Even more leverage for the team then.
you do go back into the draft the following year unless you play professional sports during that year -- See AFL UFL, CFL, etc.... (see jim kelly)
if you just sit, you are eligible the following year.
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1. Even if this "glory among peers" was enough incentive for a guy to "nudge" a game the way the NFL wants (which I do not believe it is, but whatever, I'll play long with that part), think about how much you are expanding the conspiracy here. Now the refs are actually EVALUATED on their abilty to fix games without being caught, so the best ones at it are "rewarded" with the right to fix the biggest games? What about when they are college refs and the NFL is looking for the ones they want to hire? Do they ask them to fix games to see how good they are at it? I mean, if it's part of the job, I want to know if a guy is willing and able to do it before I hire him, don't I? Who is doing all this evaluating? Is it the commissioner himself or does he have a staff to do it? because like I said, you are talking hundreds of people who would know about this program for "nuidging" games. You mean to tell me there has never been one honest ref who worked his way up through HS and college games hired who wasn't outraged and didn't spill the beans?
Also, since fans agree that most officiating in every sport is pretty bad, you are also asking us to agree that these same guys that suck most of the time somehow can fix games without messing it up.
2. I said in my earlier post, I can see a ref in an NBA game influencing a game MUCH more than an NFL game, there are fewer players, fewer officials and just fewer moving parts. But that doesn't mean it came down from the league. I just don't see the reward being worth the risk.
All I am saying is, I have serious reasonable doubt. Could I IMAGINE a game being fixed, sure. But what you are describing is systematic fixing as the normal day-to-day operating procedure of a league. I just can't believe that has not leaked ... a memo, an email ... SOMETHING. You can't tell me EVERYONE involved is crooked enough to fix games but honest and loyal enough to keep it a secret out of loyalty to the NFL or NBA. They are not all millionaires, Someone by now would have talked.
why does anyone want to be in the superbowl? its certainly not for the game check. its bragging rights. And yes, the nba can influence a lot more -- one or two calls on the right person and hes on the bench til the 4th quarter. thats huge. what im saying isnt that the game is anything close to rigged or fixed, but that here and there a ref will throw in a call or two to help things along.
It doesnt have to be about making the pats go undefeated, it can be cause a teams down 3 touchdowns, im not going to call holding on the long run to make the game competitive again.
And im not saying every game, on every level, every weekend, is tainted by that..... but probably a lot are. It wouldnt take a memo to make something like that commonplace. Most workplaces have a lot of rules that they bend unspokenly, and the people that play with the loose set of rules get rewarded. Its a product of the culture, not a company directive at that point. once its an accepted thing, its very easy to work new people into the system without ever saying a word.
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I really think that if Lynch gets dealt to the Seahawks at all it will be for that 4th round pick. At this point that is the best we are going to get for him, so in my opinion I say keep him.
agreed -- heaven forbid jackson goes down -- what would we be left with? spiller taking 10-15 touches, and who would carry the load?
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Exactly. He is worth more the longer you hold on to him and the more injuries rack up. That include the Bills. I personally think he will be the starter but if indeed fan fav Freddie is the starter there is no guarantee his old bones will make it through the year unscathed.
Yea I hear people say trade him when someones injured - what if someone is fred j? Things wouldn't be looking good for us if we dealt lynch. Say Jackson gets a season ender early leaving spiller, and.........
Lynch still has value to us. If we trade him it has to be for something worthwhile.
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As has been stated here... beer pong and other such drinking games are one thing. They can be fun, competitive, all sorts of things. You opt in to play them; that's the key. But this icing thing is completely gay. It's not a game in any way. If you don't have the balls to say screw off, why not just walk around with one of those crappy drinks in your back pocket? Then you never have to drink. I don't know the whole premise seems stupid.
As far as what you do at parties... what ever happened to trying to get laid at a party? If I'm a young single guy... no way I'm walking around trying to get other guys drunk. Just typing that, I sound gay. So, for the single guys here... what are you going to parties for, if it's' not to meet hot chicks? And do you really think you're impressing the ladies by icing some guy? (Again, that just sounds...)
well...i think you kind of opt in or out when you either drink it or not..... and you very well could carry one all the time.... or just not drink and be out of the game
as for the party thing - having been in a fraternity im guessing that this is much more of a tuesday afternoon joke then a saturday night at the club. you get 30 guys living in close quarters with a lot of free time, and like i was saying in the other post, very elaborate schemes to do pointless things tend to develop. if that means cutting out a hole from a watermelon, and inserting the bottle just for the sake to see the surprised look on your friends face when he realizes the length youve gone, just to make him drink a 24 oz pineapple ice, things like that happen. now hes going to want to catch you even more off guard with an even ridiculous drink. ive seen some pretty retarded things develop out of 19 year old guys with free time.
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There may be a misunderstanding here;
First, I've played beer pong maybe 10 times my whole life. When we play, it isn't to assist us in drinking, that's just not necessary. It's a game to us. We also play cards, horseshoes, H.O.R.S.E. pool-side, etc.
I get the notion that beer-pong being a must at a party to ensure fun is ridiculous, but some of us play to just play. My friends (which are mostly my 3 brothers and 2 cousins) are extremely competitive and we have the most fun when competing against each other, no matter what it is.
Oh, we also occasionally speak to each other as well, so conversation is present.
Just thought I'd clear that up. Carry on!
again, not a partaker in "icing" but it seems like if you are a group of guys the willingly get into this (hell you could do it with some brand of beer) it could get pretty ridiculous, competitive, and probably in its own way skillful. If the goal is to get your "brah" to just drink 14 ices in front of the bar, yes, beyond stupid and sounds like itd get old fast. if you try to one up each other in how they come across it, potentially funny -- hence some of the pictures being funny.
i think the humor comes more from the elaborate schemes to accomplish such an asanine task, not the humiliation of your brah having to drink an ice. the fact that ice is so absurd as a drink to begin with is just an element of it, not the "shame" of drinking one. its not like anyone sits there thinking "oh man now everyone will think he loves girly drinks, how embarrassing."
in the end ill stick to beer pong, quarters, and other classics but i dont feel like i have a moral high ground haha
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wow -- im no participant but a lot of anger for a game that none of you guys are playing anyway. it doesnt seem thaaaaat much more intellectual or mature to say "if i get my ping pong ball in your cup your going to chug that natty light" in the grand scheme of things.
whatever - to each their own.
i will admit, some of the more elaborate ones on the site did make me laugh.
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Actually since being a pro Gaither has had a good work ethic. Its not until he wanted a new contract that he has been a malcontent.
do you think that they would have drafted oher and gone hardline on gaither if they werent worried behind closed doors? it seemed to me like a "if oher works out we dont have to worry about this anymore" kind of situation
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OK, only two problems ...
1. What's in it for the refs? These are part-time guys. They have real jobs, some are even lawyers and the like. They make good money for part-timers, but the pay range is like $25K-70K. They are not going to be out on the street if the NFL fires them. There is certainly no glory involved, people only notice you when you screw up. There is no endorsement money. So why are they "nudging" games in one direction or the other? Is the NFL slipping them extra cash to "nudge" games? Is it just in their job description? And again, if so, you are expanding the conspiracy and making it less and less likely that this is going on for 30 years and no one has EVER talked about it. The money one of these guys could make writing a book about it is 10x what they make reffing games.
Now, if you want to talk about a ref with a gambling problem or something who needs to fix a game for the mob, well again that brings us back to making it a SURE THING. The idea of a FIX is you CAN'T LOSE. I totally agree a crappy ref or two can influence a game, but he can't throw and catch the ball. He can ignore all the holding and pushing off he wants, but there are still like 90 players, two head coaches and six other officials who could screw it up pretty easily.
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2. Is it worth the risk to the NFL? The NFL is a golden goose ... it makes BILLIONS from TV and advertising sponsors before it even sells a ticket to a game. It doesn't even matter who wins the games. Sure, maybe they will make a few extra million here and there in the next TV deal if the big markets are generally good because maybe it means an extra ratings point but ... when you are making billions, why put it at risk for $10 million?
The only thing that can bring down the NFL is if people thought the games were fixed. It's why baseball comes down so hard on gambling while ignoring drugs, but it's even more important in football because gambling is the whole reason many people watch. If people believe games are fixed, they will stop gambling and therefore stop watching. It's just bad business to try to "nudge " games, there is so little upside and so much at risk.
1. if im a ref, i want to work the big games - not for money but, for glory among my peers. if the nfl knows i "play ball" im more likely to get those games. especially if ive proven all season to be able to give slight edges without drawing attention to myself. if ive been able to reign in blowouts, give some late game drives to add drama etc.... have you read any of the tim donaghy allegations in the NBA? it isnt about making it a sure thing in my sccenario, its about giving a team an opportunity to take advantage of a situation, could be to win, could be just to keep it competitive when a game is a mismatch. if they cant take advantage, oh well.... "of course its not fixed, the star doesnt win every time"
2. it didnt bring down the nba when one of its refs got caught, and wrote a book about it! you look the other way, say you dont know what hes talking about, and theres no conspiracy because you never told him to do it, the game wasnt fixed -- see point 1 -- "the stars didnt win em all!"
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Not sure if this was posted, but here are the pictures from that night.........Not quite sure those pictures are around picture 15-16:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...101bigben1.html
man -- not to pile on or get too far off topic, but its remarkable that hes a professional athlete looking at some of those pics...
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So actual honest to God experts, like the guy who built her boat, saying she's too young and not strong enough don't mean anything, huh?
Her previous experience entailed delivering yachts for rich guys up and down the coast of California. Not too many similarities to the Indian Ocean in winter, but hey, how hard could it be since she's a mature 16 year old...
not arguing it was a good idea, but im thinking the boat builder might have some reason to say that she is at fault when the boat broke..... im not sure what that reason could be though... just saying.
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"Coach Josh McDaniels is leaning toward keeping only two quarterbacks active on game days this season.
Activating a third QB would "put us behind the eight ball at other spots," explained McDaniels. The Broncos will want Tim Tebow active for situational work, so Brady Quinn will likely be the odd man out." (Per ESPN + Rotoworld)
What do you guys think of Quinn? I'm thinking Buffalo is going to be the first place he looks. Love to see them cut Fitzpatrick and snag Quinn. Another option can't be bad if the starter falls on his face. More competition in the mean time.
Also I'm a little surprised Josh McCown is still a free agent. He showed some athleticism and a big arm when he started in AZ a few years back. He's a better version of Tyler Thigpen, in my opinion. With Gailey, I think he could play pretty well. Especially by comparison to what we've seen lately.
This doesnt imply release, this implies he would be the emergency qb on gameday -- think kevin kolb being behind vick last year, or henne behind pat white..... tebow will have subpackages, but in case of injury quinn would likely be the first in
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im going to throw some ideas out there and you can all tell me if im crazy.....
say two teams come into a game evenly matched, say 50-50 chance to win.
ones a big market, fan favorite, lots of stars (think lakers, patriots, etc...)
ones small market, blue collar no household name players but a solid team (spurs perhaps?)
i am a referee for this game, winner goes to the championship game
i know my boss would be VERY happy to see kobe, tom brady etc in the championship. he hasnt called to tell me to fix the game, but im not a fool.
from here out ill stick to football, but i think the example works for all sports
the game is tight, and brady has the ball in his hands, trailing by four -- he throws the ball deep to moss, moss pushes off and catches it -- no call?
alternatively the ball falls -- no catch, its borderline pass interference... do you think the stars get that call more often then the nameless team?
something like that can take a 50-50 game and make it 60-40 without anyone being able to prove anything. the games not fixed, the stars have not been promised victory but theres been a subtle advantage added.
this happens a few times in a season and suddenly an 8-8 team can become 11-5? they can also not capitalize on it, and end up 8-8.
i think something like this is very present in sports.
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Dude, they did it in the bathroom of a packed night clud and aparently the door was open with bodyguards all around.
The LAST thing that comes to my mind is "this is not ok" - to have sex with me
How about:
"this is not ok" - to have sex with me in this gross bathroom, do me in your limo
"this is not ok" - to have sex with me while your bodyguards around, can you make them leave
"this is not ok" - to have sex with me with the door wide open, I want to bone in private
"this is not ok" - to have sex with me all my friends are around, and they will think Im a slut if we do it here, then I will claim you raped me afterwards to avoid the shame of doing it in thie gross bathroom, with all your bodyguards watching, and the door wide open!
is it really the last thing that comes to mind? I added 3-4 words to each statement and they don't read any different to me- do they mean something else to you now? This is not ok means no pretty explicitly. Whatever the reason it's not ok really doesn't matter.
Regardless, where in any of your original ones does she say "it is ok"
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Listen, there's a difference between can ben be convicted of rape, and if what she said is true, was she raped?
In other countries we wouldn't be debating this because a drunk girl can't give consent even if she says "come and get it, i want you." some of the things that are being argued are just plain sad. How would you feel if I tried to tell you it was your fault cause you didn't watch your drink and that's just drinking 101- it's not fair, and I would never imply that. You are a victim and if she was fall down drunk saying no, she is too- regardless of if she screamed rape.
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as a matter of fact smarty pants, i am actually a rape victim. i was drugged by a lifelong friend while sharing a hotel room in vegas and woke up with hemorhoid the size of a grape and couldnt defecate for three weeks. did i expect this to happen to me in this circumstance, absolutely not, i did nothing to lead this man on, and being a lifelong friend i didnt ever expect it. if i was in a situation like hers, when a man exposes his penis to someone at a self admitted SEX PARTY then its on her to do more for herself other than just calling herself a victim. she admitted a series of "silly" and "stupid" things where she obviously knew what was happening up to the point of the rape. she "stupidly said OK OK OK" come on
when i am having sex with a woman its absolutely consentual and the only stopping she asks for is a break.
if true, I am sorry for the comment. Regardless, it wasn't appropriate for me to make.... She was at a bar. She was not at a sex party at the bar. Ben was not at a sex party. Either way, unless they agreed on it being ok to go past er saying no, he's taking a big chance to keep going.
I also have not said you raped anyone, but if that is the standard someone uses they are rolling the dice big time.
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This young girl is a prime example of what happens when parents chose to raise stupid, spoiled, and/or naive girls. Her father should have his but kicked. I heard that hitchhiking across America can be fun. I think I'll start in Harlem. Wish me luck, not that anything could possibly go wrong.
Yes, it's a bad situation but she could be roaming that bar naked, it doesn't give anyone the right to do anything to her.
Again, not arguing what happened in the room.... Just addressing what I feel is a totally skewed sense of morality on the subject of rape.
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"And it was, like, completely casual. Nothing, like, sexual at all until my friend, um, we had, like, name tags on because it was my friend's birthday and she had, like, this silly, like, sex party, or whatever, and they had, like name tags like, 'Hello, my name is..." and it said, like, status, um, something, and my friend made mine so I was, like, wearing it.
"And it said, 'DTF,' which is, like, 'Down to [expletive] or whatever, which is silly, obviously, and I guess that he saw that and he, like, asked me about it, and I was like, 'Oh, it was just this silly thing, like, I explained it was my friend's birthday, she was just having this, um, she had these there and we were all just wearing them. We were all wearing them, too. And he was like, 'Oh, well, I'm not down to [expletive.] I'm into [expletive] girls' or something very crude, and we were like, 'OK.
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10161/10645...m#ixzz0qf7GiUsJ
it was actually in writing, lol
it's true, if she's willing to have sex, it goes for anyone, at any time of the night, anywhere.... She can't say no at that point.
Also a nametag with DTF is a joke among college kids implying she's single.
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hers is an ambiguous statement, lots of women get off on having sex in public, its the lure of getting caught that may cause this and she might not be one of them, however this is" not ok"and "we shouldnt be doing this" is not "stop". stop, no, dont touch me, im not interested although i saw your penis and ran into a room with a picture on it that i have seen since i was able to decipher a man and woman stick figure, those are all acceptable statements. "we shouldnt be doing this" might mean, i have a boyfriend, im on the rag, my panties are soiled, i have to meet my grandma later, and" this is not ok" could mean many different things as well, like for example maybe big ben is not so big, not ok, maybe she meant she would rather be in his million dollar bed, thats ok. we dont know because she is an absolute twit who cannot remember the most important details of her supposed rape, but remembers to the word, everything else that happened that nite, especially bens 'crude" comment earlier in the nite, but cant remember is her face was plastered against cold tile or the unshaven face of a giant?
Where is any implication of consent?
I'm going out on a limb and guessing you either don't know any rape victims, or the ones that you do know wouldn't tell you it happened for fear you would tell them they did it wrong. A rape is a crisis situation, some people go completely silent. When in doubt as a man, it is your obligation to stop. At very best your argument is that if it's ambiguous, and you keep going -- you might be raping a woman.
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If he were at the same position as he's always played, I'd be fine. Playing olb he has soooo much to learn, most struggle with full participation. Down the line maybe, but first year in a new position, you've got to be there....
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i am in no way condoning rape. a slut, a grandma, a sheep; its all wrong, however....
this girl MAY have been a drunk underage PREDATOR who had been following them from bar to bar with hopes of mabybe hooking up with a millionaire, if you dont see both sides of the equation then you are prejudging guilt, maybe this group of upstanding girls used their i phone to wiki big ben, found out that he had a prior, and bam, instant celebrity. its possible. i have dated some real crackpots and would not put this past what any young woman is capable of, especially after a few (or one in many cases) shot of hard alcohol.
I'm not saying he did it.
I'm not saying I believe her.
I'm saying that if you take the statement she claimed to make as ambiguous or ok to continue after, you are at risk for rape charges in your personal life. If she said "it's not ok, we shouldn't be doing this" and he continued, then he is a rapist in every sense of the word. I am baffled how many men argue that point.
I have no idea what happened in that room so I won't debate it, but we can argue the merits of that phrase regardless of if she ever said it.
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OK, assuming you are a man, let's say BR was going to do you in the cornhole. Would you say "This isn't OK - we shouldn't be doing this" or would you say "STOP! THIS IS RAPE. SOMEBODY HELP ME!" or some such thing?
Expressing discomfort with the time, place, or manner of the act is not saying "NO. This is rape."
Nothing in that transcript leads me to believe that this young woman is credible.
That being said, it is possible she like meant to say like, you know, it wasn't, really like cool. But who knows. Depending on the context, those words could conceivably mean "NO!" It isn't clear.
I've seen enough of this board to know that people don't change their minds very often, so this is the last I'll post on this topic. If you think that a person should be charged or prosecuted based on this woman's testimony, then you just don't get it.
I'm pretty explicit that I don't know if her story is true, my commentary is that no means no -- whether it's "stop, you are raping me" or "this isn't ok"
If you can show me any type of consent in that statement, I'm fine with changing my mind.
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after like reading the transcript, i must agree like, that if a real felonious rape like happened to the extent of what this like girl is like accusing him like of, i would have to like think that she would kike be able to like remember like which position a 6'5 250 like man had like penetrated her.....she can like remember exactly what she like said, but she like cant remember how he like raped her. She doesnt remember like if he even "wiped hisself off"
im sure Roethlisburger is no saint but this sounds like she is full of horse puckey, or just incredibly stupid. i must agree if you want someone to stop doing something you say STOP, dont beat around the bush. "this isnt ok, we dont need to be doing this" is confusing and wishywashy, this whole episode stinks of stupidity and bs
to me this underlines the issue of lying, stupidity, underage drinking, and especially double standard. "it was like a sex party and my tag said "dtf" which means down to fuc7, and he said a similar response, or something crude." is it really crude of him to respond to a bunch of girls wearing name tags basically saying that they are sluts. isnt it crude of the girls to wear that crap to a bar in the first place, a place where there are drunk horney men, tags that say "i am down with sex" bu then excuse youself by saying youre friend put it on for a SEX PARTY, and then run into a bathroom when you see a penis, rather that just going back to the party or "the lots of girls around, but i dont know what they saw" or the fact that they just happened to be at all the same bars that nite, now im no expert but i know girls are big fans of big tall men, men with millions of dollars, and the famous; on the other hand big men with millions like girls.....im guessing there are more girls around than 6'5 millionaires, so deducing from that she had been following him around until this accused rape happens. so like um i propose that if you are falsely accusing someone of rape and it turns out to be false, the person accusing should get the jail time the rapist would have gotten if her lies were really true.
I can't believe how many guys argue that "This isn't ok - we shouldn't being doing this" is a mixed message.... Also is raping a slut somehow a less felonious type of rape? what does her behavior have to do with anything if she said that? I'm not saying I buy her story but come on guys
If anyone is still up, C2C's show tonight is on how sports are fix
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
with holding on nearly every play, it's not absurd to throw one in there to turn a 3rd and short to a third and long, or miss one on a long run.... It's not as easy as other but far from impossible.