NoSaint
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1.) Most of those were designed QB runs, not a lack of ability to read the defense on his part. He's doing what he's told to.
2.) Those runs accounted for over 1000 YDS. and last time I check rushing yards count just as much as passing yards. Everyone loves Vick for his highlight reel runs, but everyone seems to be bashing Newton for his.
1)thats the problem, weve never seen a qb come from a spread option offence and succeed.
2)at this point i think most realize that those runs lead to a sore, jumpy, innaccurate qb that misses games and by the time the playoffs roll around hes beaten up like vick. i dont think its a coincidence that he started the season as healthy as he has ever been and ended it beaten up and playing like we are used to, electric but inconsistent.
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ummmm i will say he had a major neck issue the year we let him go (didnt he have vertebrae fused or something big along those lines?)
hes been respectable but not great in atlanta. i think if you asked the average NFC South fan who he is, most would need some help figuring it out. i did love his work ethic and character (and i mean football even more then personal -- he never took shortcuts or plays off). i dont think hed be on this squad today based on his abilities and our needs though.
i will say that i agree about not letting talent go, but i dont think this is a prime example though
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As seen by whom? This 'event' is open to the media, not scouts etc.
are you implying that the scouts will have no idea what goes on at this event? do you not think that any team even halfway thinking about him wont have scouts on that field with a pair of those glasses with the fake nose and mustache?
if you are debating giving him 50 mil, you will spend a couple bucks on getting a press pass == atleast thats the guess id venture. at the very least they will get every second of the film
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It will be perfectly scripted. The worries with Newton are clear as day - he will present a dog and pony show and this will only bolster his stock. He can throw the ball well, his problems extend far beyond that aspect.
There's been some early backlash. The dog and pony show might turn off some GMs. If he's immaculate on the field it'll be easy to forget some of the obvious off field warts
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Should be.... Interesting. I'm sure he'll look good physically. More curious about the reaction and theatrics. Will it play well, or immature and of poor judgement?
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Was Crabtree dealing with legal issues? Accusations about him and Deion? I guess you failed to read my posts THOROUGHLY like everyone else; thus making yourself look ridiculous. That was some serious stuff he was going through that teams just didn't want to deal with. If you noticed i stated "other issues" but I guess i have to spell it out for everyone who's not in the loop. This guy was rated a top 10 player by most teams. If he didn't have all that crp on his record, there's NO WAY he would;ve been drafted that late.
Sorry?
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1- true, I knew he only started like 5 games (which he did), but still finished with 6.5 sacks.
2-very true.
I really like Dareus to be clear, I just don't understand the Bowers hate. I view him in a an extremely favorable light. Mario Williams Lite, which is not a bad thing at all.
I still dint see him on our board, but I don't pretend to be a bowers expert. From the glimpses ive seen and heard he sounds like a 4-3 end and neither a fit for de or olb in a 3-4. I think we will give some preference to guys that can go in both schemes ala dareus or Quinn, and guys that are scheme specific will be for the 3-4.
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The One Year Wonder label is a bit overrated if you actually played those years, unlike Maybin. But If that's the best reason to why he is getting ripped on, so is Dareus and Fairley. Right?
Dareus had two years of production.
Fairley has faced that question. I think his national championship game was special and watched by many though. How many have seen bowers dominate like that? Not saying he hasn't but most are less exposed to it. I think fairly will sink some between his single year, dirty hits etc... But it's still way early. Combine and prodays might reshuffle the deck some.
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I'm not singling you out because there's a reasonable amount of Bowers hate on this board, but why are a bunch of amateur fans, i.e. all of us, denouncing this guy when 99.9% of scouts/professionals see him as a possible #1, not worse then top 5 pick? I get the hate on Peterson or Green, but what makes this guy so bad in the eyes of so many. Here's what I usually hear..."I saw this guy play, doesn't impress me in the least." (no reasons of course), " Bowers is way overrated" (no reasons) "guy get his sacks in bunches" (not true), and of course my favorite, "he's way overrated."
I think the obvious answer is
One year wonder. Seems there were motivation issues the first two years of his career- will he get his pay day and take time off until something else kicks him in the ass like his dads passing did?
Also buff specific: dareus and Quinn seem versatile enough to fill two roles, bowers seems to misfit any of our holes
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Ive already stated I dont think a guy who makes whoopee with a LEGAL female 7 years his junior is a big deal. If you want to talk morality, then you are truly opening up a huge gray area, where there is no right answer. If she was a minor then I would say he was wreckless because of the legal implications. But she wasn't. You and the other "oh gee wiz what happened to this idealic Ozzie and Harriett America" THAT NEVER EXISTED are the ones who need to get a grip and move on.
Fair enough. I guess I just don't get the hostility towards discussing morality. I know it's a gray area and there's no right or wrong, but I guess thats the only discussion to be had in this thread. He did X, Y, and Z.... It was legal. End of story? Why you even entered the debate confuses me at this point.
I feel like I've had a pretty good grip, as have the others - talking about the psychology of it, morals of it all, and societal issues.... It just seems to have you very angry compared to others that are leaning to your side on the debate. It seems like an issue with a lot of subtleties, and perspectives both in his part, the girls, and peoples reaction. I know my initial reaction didn't even take into account quite how extravagant her lifestyle of the rich and famous was, and how that changes things somewhat. Does it make her more mature or just think she's more mature? I feel like your response will be "LA LA LA i can't hear you LA LA LA it was legal LA LA LA" with your fingers in your ears. If that's the case, why continue?
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buddy, get over it. There's no trend of moral decay here. The only thing that's changing is the Internet age is putting their lives under a microscope.
I guess you don't even realize that he wasn't talking about just sanchezs behavior but more your replies. His point was this behavior wouldn't be defended, it would be shamed. And here you are again, defending it, making excuses, and pointing fingers at the people that have done it before and those who brought it to light. Why is it so hard to say it was kind of a trashy move, and move on? I guess I just dont get why you are so adamant that if it's legal in a country, it's all good. If the law was changed to 21 tomorrow would you then condem him? I just don't really understand your point of view on this and it seems like you are more apt to give snarky or standoffish remarks rather then explain why you are so attached to legal=moral, and anyone who disagrees is nuts. I feel like everyone else is willing to function in a gray area in this discussion, and you are very black and white....
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Man... Sounds like dareus would be a terrible reach with our third pick
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consider how disappointing the opposite would be.
here you are, all ready to watch bubble-butt porn, and suddenly a cartoon shows up. whatta mood-killer.
jw
unless you are mark sanchez
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lol, nah, im with you, just giving you a hard time. but im not sure about that last part as there are plenty of upperclassmen girls (and guys) who get pass out drunk on a regular basis. and that rarely stops at graduation either.
i think you're giving the 22-26 crowd a little too much credit.
agreed. atleast my girls could handle their whiskey, and didnt go for those girly highschool drinks....
but i think you get my point.... just cause you CAN bang those girls, doesnt mean that its what you SHOULD be doing. Im in that crowd myself and have fallen on both sides of the fence so I cant claim a huge moral high ground, but that doesnt mean Im proud of all my choices or I am going to defend someone else for larger scale lapses in judgement.
im not saying persecute the sanchise, but i will say that if this is his MO, and he was fine with it, then its an issue for him.... as for the people defending it... all i can do is shake my head. its one thing to get lost in the moment, be a few drinks in and push common sense on a friday night at college.
i think its a whole different situation to be down with he being 17 and to actually be persuing it. if hes not ok with it getting out he shouldnt be doing it. i cant imagine he saw the story and was like "oh whatever...." i bet he was embarrassed - as should those be that are defending it to no end, without any hesitation. i understand saying its legal, and that it happens, but to argue the way joe is.... i just dont understand, unless he is setting up prom dates himself.
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You were standing on the sidelines "laughing" at the guys who were banging their way through the freshmen crop of girls... and they were the losers?
LOL
Yea cause I was busy banging my way through the sororities
You know - with girls that didn't have to worry about their fake ids and where they were going to get there next smirnoff ice or if they'd be falling down and throwing up at the end of the night....
None of you have been with a girl and thought to yourself.... Jeeze- I should be doing better then this? Heaven forbid you walk away from getting laid because you have standards?
His should be above "legal" or "not legal"
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Sanchez wipes boogers on a team mate on the sideline before the AFC championship game, for all we know she's more mature than he is.
It's possible, but I think you have to expect more out of the 24 year old NFL qb you give a 50 million dollar contract to. He's shown immaturity but being a kid enjoying your life with friends and PEERS is different then doing it with a HS girl that has to be to class in the morning.
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I think if you talked to one of these 17 year old girls you would realize even if there bodies are developed and they are making poor choices with sex and booze etc... It's cause they are still really young mentally. If you read her convos with deadspin... The flip flopping, the excuses, telling them to blame her friends for leaking it and then pretending her email was hacked....
She's still a child, she doesn't understand the choices she's making. The consequences, the responsibilities that come with them. When you look at it objectively, and not as a dude that thinks it's cool to get off.... It's kind of sad.
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1. This makes sanchez look like a complete loser. NFL starting QB in NYC and you date a H.S. chick, who's not even that good looking!!??
2. I know Sanchez was in trouble in USC w/some sexual assault charge that never came to be (when he was a freshman)...and now he's dating a chick in H.S. Maybe he's got some "issue"?
3. To the guy who said that there's only a 5 yr age difference..i hear ya, but it's not just about the number: again, he's an NFL starting QB and she's in H.S. WHAT COULD THEY POSSIBLY HAVE IN COMMON?
4. As for the people who question the girl's parents for letting her be out-and-about until the wee hours of the morning. Lets be real, if your 17yr old daughter told you that she was dating Mark Sanchez, you'd ejaculate yourself and pray to god that Dirty Sanchez does her Dirty and you have a little Sanchez Jr. running around so your daughter can collect $30,000/mo. in financial support for the rest of her life......at the very minimum, you'll be getting free Jets tix for a while...
I will say - the fact that she's absolutely loaded and daddy probably is 10x as rich as sanchise could ever dream of being makes it a little less.... Foul. They have slightly morein common then the average 17 yr old girl and NFL qb would
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So one more year?
Im not trying to defend Sanchez, and agree with you the same way Gugny does. I'm just curious on your opinions since you seem to feel so strongly about it.
So it's not an age difference thing, as much as it is a "station of life" thing? Since you seem to say it would be ok if she were in college.
I will add, that we know NOTHING about this girl or her maturity level or who she is. We do know she comes from a very rich CT/NYC family. And in my experiences with those girls, they are usually veteran world travelers who have lived a life 10 years ahead of their actual age from the moment they hit puberty.
Again, kinda stupid move for someone in his highly scrutinized position, but I dont think of him as some predator.
I think that in this conversation stages are more important then hard numbers. Obviously law needs numbers. No matter how world travelled - she's still dealing with prom, college applications, SATs.... If she's thinking about a qb it should be one in the same place.
I went to a high end, private university filled with these girls. When they walk in at 18 they are soooo damn young. We would always kill the seniors that hooked up with them opening week. You know the guy - 21 but hangs out at the bar that serves 18 year olds? Cant relate to girls his own age? They dont fall for his games as easy... She's still almost a year away from that point and he's two years removed and a self made millionaire to boot.
I'm currently 24 and couldn't imagine picking up a 17 year old.
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Let's put it this way - would you give one of your 24 year old friends a hard time about it? I would. Did you have to double check the law? I bet most did.
Both bad situations for an NFL qb. I just don't get the legal discussion. Clearly it is legal. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it smart.
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Again, read the damn thread. I just happen to think lowly of a pro QB hitting up and bedding 17 year high school students. If that's old school, so be it. It just makes me think much less of the guy and IMO he showed pretty poor judgement. You think otherwise, fine. BTW, I don't have a daughter and my "venom" is not for MS (that's just disgust) the venom is for a few posters who can't or won't read before opening up their pie-holes.
I don't have a hypothetical. The point was a seven year spread at one point becomes okay. I just don't think 24 and 17 is that line. Let the kid finish high school. Then again, what the Hell, he can take her to the prom.
I can hardly think of two people with a broader 7 year gap. She still lives at daddy's house and he has a million dollar condo and is on tv. He graduated highschool went through college and is running his own life. At 42 and 35 sure there are differences but not full "life stages" like that.
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If the League had called these people a few days before the game and said "we have reason to believe that the seats you purchased for the SB will not be available due to a decision by the fire marshall. We apologize for this and we wish to compensate you in the following way. Many if not most of you will be moved to other seating (including field level club) or standing room areas. We will pay you triple ($2400) the face value of your ticket, we will give you a free ticket to next year's SB, we will allow you unprecedented access to the field after the game, we will comp you food and drinks and we will provide free NFL merchandise on site..."
How many do you think would have said "forget it, I'll stay home"?
No, I don't believe two people buying nosebleed seats had to pay $10,000 for a few nights and a SB in Dallas/Ft. Worth.
Let's say a couple from Pittsburgh decided to go stubhub after not winning the lotto for tix.....
Two tix in that section 4-5000
Two flights last minute 2000
Hotel, 3-4 nights (common min) 1000+
food, cabs, time off work....
Adds up quick. Of course if you win the lotto, have family nearby, it can be much cheaper.
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Can someone explain to me why they think it is perfectly feasible to say Miller = Maybin, simply because they are the same weight, but its not ok to say Quinn = Maybin because both of them are/were one year wonders?
So it's ok to draft risky one year wonders if they are fat?
If he's a fat 265 and running a 4.38 40 yard dash, more power to the kid.
I think one year wonders that are physically not special are a bad recipe. Maybin has both strikes but I think it's easier to overcome only playing 2 years of college ball then it is to overcome being small.
One is a physical issue, one could just be an experience issue. Von miller goes back for a year we know he doesn't come out 20lbs heavier. If Quinn played last year he could have dominated. Or he couldve flopped.
Neither comparison truly fair but I see why some would say size is a bigger issue.
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Dez dropped because of his diva attitude and nobody wanted to deal with his "issues." Nothing to do with missing a year or anything else.
As to people who question size out of college. I'm not worried about player's size coming out of college. NOBODY should really look too much into it. The real question is his frame and how well he can hold his weight. You want someone with a big frame that can always add weight at the next level. Some players have the ability to just gain 10-20 lbs of muscle in a year easily. Others like Maybin will have difficulty to do so. Prime example of this was Urlacher who was roughly 6'3" 235 coming out of college, but showed up to the combine at 255.
Fair enough on dez - my math put it that he and crabtree were both possibly the most talented player in there draft. Crabtree a diva, Dez a diva that missed a year. Crab dropped to 10, Dez dropped another 10. Certainly not science.
As for size - I guess my argument is VM had 4 years in a big program. Quinn put up those numbers after two. If one is more likely to get bigger stronger and faster.... Doesn't initial logic say Quinn?
Also, like was said why get the big guy who is already slow when you can get miller and hope he doesnt lose speed--- why get miller who is smaller and possibly slower when you can get the big strong fast guy. As much as I'd love a zach Thomas or London Fletcher on this team (undersized gamers).... Imagine adding a freeney or a guy that is stronger and considerably faster then Julius peppers.
Where miller would have to overachieve, Quinn could just be average for a guy with his body and be just as good if not better.
Coy Wire gets 2 more years in Atlanta
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
id argue that is a product of not physical ability but understanding rexs defense so well that he is essentially a secondary coach on the field. i think that he and bart scott just "get" that defense. in leondhards case it is much easier to be the back end help behind those strong corners and pass rushes. in buffalo a lot more would have been asked of him physically.