NoSaint
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Posts posted by NoSaint
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Don't blame you one bit, man, but leaving isn't a solution. Just MO.
I didn't read the whole thread but this post struck me... I apologize if discussed, but why should he solve the problem? He's not committed to the board, its not somewhere he has to be.... If he's not happy here, why not spend time with friends and family instead?
Whenever people leave theres a sense that - even in subtle undertones - they never tried hard enough, or didn't have thick enough skin.... Coming to talk to fellow fans, and people you hope to be friends with should be just that - friendly. I know I'm not here to WORK on relationships. I think we all have enough of that in our lives. Why put up with something here? Why spend time trying to change anonymous posters? I'm here to enjoy a shared interest, and some people just don't enjoy the blind aggression... Especially when directed at them.
From the short amount I read in this thread, there hasn't been a harsh tone like Tim Graham but I thought this was an interesting post none the less.
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My name is John Cocktosten and I was wrong about the CJ Spiller pick. It's not that I didn't like him as a player, I've said that I think he was the most exciting player in the draft. It was selecting a RB that bothered me (my rationale below). But after watching the Bengals game, I am here to say that I was completely wrong. He is Marshall Faulk/Gale Sayers, he's special beyond special and if he stays healthy, he will retire one of the great ones. So here's to Buddy Nix, your first pick as a Bills GM was BRILLIANT. May there be many more!
The one thing that bugs me about the platoon of mediocre backs idea -- its just not true.
All those teams have invested early and often in backs, but because they are perennially good teams, they aren't top 10 picks. They don't spend top ten picks on anyone though because they all win. Not all have worked but...
NE- maroney (1st)
Balt - ray rice (2nd), McGahee (two 3s and a 5), McClain (4)
Colts - addai (1st), brown (1st)
Dallas - felix jones (1) while they had Marion barber (4)
New Orleans - bush (1st - number 2 overall)
All of them have a 1st rounder, besides baltimore and between mcgahee and rice they made a real commitment.
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Bulaga was drafted as a left tackle, and the long term plans at Green Bay have been for him to play that position.
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/sports/pack...e-at-left-guard
That being said there was a position of need, Bulaga is being given the opportunity to play there, but there's no indication as of yet that he isn't still being considered for LT.
Not that we neede a LT anyway.
So in a roundabout way what your saying is that they took the BPA and by doing so, were able to successfully maximize talent on there offense filling an unexpected need this year and hopefully a separate one down the line? Weird how getting the best players out there allows you to be flexible.
Obviously the pats don't take a qb in the first, but in general you will have 2-3 guys ranked closely, and you take the one that does fit your team best, but you don't reach by 15 picks in the first round. You don't pass elite talent for good players.
Last - the argument that you were just saying that he was four because they had 3 rbs on the roster is just silly. Turns out the packers probably had about 10 lineman too. It was just a dig to get people upset, and frankly, unneeded.
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but could he start on other teams??????
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This one had me wondering:
Why do teams even bother with that? Does splitting the QB out wide actually make the defense think twice about anything?
Its the element of surprise that the cat is coming. When the qb comes off, the defense can adjust and bring in big bodies otherwise. Also, regardless of whether he will do anything you must commit a man to cover him.
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Just callin' 'em like I see 'em guy. Does your response inicate that you are okay with our current QB corp? LOL.
I think there are a handful of teams. A more interesting dynamic to the question is "how many teams would win more games this year with one of our qbs starting?"
Although guys like Bradford, Sanchez, etc are obvious starters on there teams, I think Trent would go farther then Sanchez, but with the draft spot, new stadium etc the jets clearly go with who they have. ie Trent wouldn't start for the jets, but I think the team would be better with him.
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That fake screen to Spiller and back the other way to McIntyre was a terrific designed play and play call. I can't wait to see what Gailey is going to be able to do with Freddie and Lynch, too.
That's kind of what I've been getting at with my comments defending and comparing spiller to Reggie bush. A lot of people don't realize what a dynamic player like that does to the game. He might have games where he gets 8 carries for 6 yards but it really opens the rest of the field when all eyes are on him.
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I can't believe that TE from Tampa, who by all accounts sounds like a straight up rapist who caught a break, can play in the NFL but this guy is shunned.
What else is strange is this thread seems to be almost in complete agreement that this guy should get a shot, and it's hard to get the board to agree on anything. It can't possibly be that big of a PR nightmare to give him a tryout.
Has anyone in this thread watched more then a highlight reel? has anyone seen that much even? I havent heard one comment on his play beyond he was rated somewhere between a second and fifth round prospect depending on which draft mag you read. regardless of your opinion of the incident he has in his past, does anyone have a reason on the field that they can say so adamantly that he should play?
Again, a 24 year old rookie, from a small division 2 school, with a sordid history (which helped keep him from playing or developing as a football player) is far from a slam dunk prospect. He played one year of HS ball in 05, one year of JUCO, and one year of DII ball. He doesnt have a resume that screams conspiracy that he isnt getting a chance. I bet the the track record for Lone Star Conference Lineman of the year is not nearly as impressive as we are making it seem here.
If the tape shows hes worth bringing in, then go for it, but..... is there reason to believe hed be better then wang? or meredith?
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Donte Stallworth served 24 days of a 30 day sentence for KILLING another human being with his car while he was drunk. He then paid off the family of the man he killed with a "financial settlement." And Tony Washington is going to be a PR problem for the NFL? Christ, that's ridiculous.
But you cant take the situations in a vacuum. It may not be the morally right thing, but donte stallworth has proven he can run a route and catch a ball thrown by an nfl qb. he has proven he can help a team. Unfortunately if a probowl LT did his own sister he would get another chance, tony washington might not. The truth of the matter is, has he ever lined up across from a player that went pro? with such powerhouses as washburn, tarleton state, incarnate word, and the always dominant Angelo State on the schedule for this year -- this kid would be a major roll of the dice WITHOUT the baggage.
Also, just because some people projected him as a second round talent, doesnt mean every GM agrees. ::Cough:: Jevan Snead ::Cough:: There were people that graded him as a legit mid round pick, and he went undrafted, and is already without a job. Even in the best case scenario, which is he has second round talent, he has what kind of odds to succeed.... Maybe 1 out of 5-10 second round left tackles become long term starters? 1 out of a lot more then that probowl? I dont know the numbers but if someone did, i would be curious.
yes there are a lot of highly talented convicts in the nfl, but for every big ben, there are 12 guys that are borderline talent that will never get there chance for convictions FAR smaller then this. Crimes as simple as Public intoxication knock college players that might have a chance out of discussions every year. I really dont think roger goodell black balled him as much as its just not worth it to anyone right now.
And yes, that article had good qualities featured, but it is true that there are warning flags in it as well - and i dont mean recidivism, I mean in how he deals with adversity, and how he views the crime he committed. He may test out as a leader, but when things got really bad, he isolated himself, he gave up on a future, etc... I live in New Orleans and I know it is a city that has programs that would do anything in the world to be able to feature a young black man with leadership qualities to help the community and instead he rode the bus by himself - i know he was 16, but yea, i watch a lot of 16 year olds that have been through a hell of a lot more then him during, and post katrina in this city and they get off the bus at the united way to do something about it. Again, im not saying hes a monster, but im trying to balance a discussion that seems to be ignoring the entire other side of the tony washington story.
As much as people have framed him in this discussion as an innocent victim getting railroaded by a conspiracy starting with the police, and now headed by king roger.... there are legit reasons why a team might not want him. would you cut someone to bring him in at this point? I wouldnt be upset by a workout, but I wouldnt be thrilled either, and that lack of excitement comes from more then just his sex offender status, which frankly i dont much care about.
Last and certainly not least for his nfl potential, he is 24, and at best a long term project with the level of talent he played against.
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Though he wasn't a 5th rounder, 3rd rounder Chris Henry got a litany of second chances. And yes, you brilliantly deduced that the interest on this board may be due to the lack of quality LT play we have on our team. Second chances aren't solely for 1st round draft picks who think they own the world and can get away with murder (well at least beating your girlfriend or killing a few dogs.) Second chances are actually for people who own up to the mistakes they made in their past and learn from said mistakes. How many more times will Big Ben have to forcibly impose himself on a woman before his second chances are up?
Chris Henry drafted in the third with his mistakes, probably would've gone a lot earlier. He also had game film that he could produce in the NFL for chance 3, 4, 23.... I'm not saying its fair, I'm saying thats how it works. It always has, it probably always will. If chris Henry without incident was a 5th rd prospect do you think he'd get the same chances? I agree that out of all these guys Tony deserves a chance more then a lot of them.
I can understand incest being a felony, but how can it be justified that a 16 year old who had consensual sex with his 15 year old sister be tried as an adult? Especially since there is a low recidivism rate. The act itself is shameful enough, but to label him a child molester for life, when he was a child himself, is just wrong.
But since he IS a registered sex offender, he'll never play in the NFL.
I think inadvertently you just illustrated exactly why he wont get a chance - people hear sex offender and immediately say child molester. The public perception of the title is so specific to children and violent rape, and there are non child, non violent crimes that can get the label. Its such a hot button issue in communities that gms worry about the backlash. They don't want there company name on the fliers being distributed alerting the public, they don't want the press conferences. There are a lot of people that are later round talents without that baggage and with similar upside.
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I work with kids in that age range, and quite often now and days, the girls are the aggressive ones in the relationships. It is a bit different than when i was that age 10 years ago, frankly girls are pursuing boys and asking them out as much as boys pursuing the girls and asking them out. Washington was 16 and his sis was 15. So, he is not a pedophile; he and his sis made a big mistake mutually. If the reporting is unbiased, then there is no reason that he should have had to go to jail and have his name dug through the mud while his sister got juvenile corrections. What really needed to happen for both of their sakes is for both of them to have received counseling instead.
He was rated as high as 2nd round talent from what i saw (and from what i read in the article) and draftek listed him as 151st overall prospect which means with his baggage should have been drafted towards the end of the 5th round.
Realistically I'm not pretending I know what happened, I was just frustrated someone framed it as he's this poor kid who was raped by a prostitute when in reality we don't know mug about that night, and it was probably poor judgement and mutual lust at work.
Let's say he's more realistically the 5th round talent then the 2nd-- how often do those guys get a second chance? If the video shows 5th and you have baggage gms tend to not even worry about kicking you to the curb. At that point they are looking for ways guys stand out, and if its with a rap sheet instead of on film, they are off the board in a heartbeat.
I really don't think this is a conspiracy, as much as a gm not seeing enough reward to risk the pr.
I also question if we weren't thin at tackle if wed be as forgiving here. I remember predraft, and even post when vets were available... when we might have picked up another guy, people were much more hesitant, and what happened hasn't changed.
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I suspect that he may not be as good of an NFL prospect as many of you are suggesting. If he were, I honestly believe that he would be on some NFL team's roster right now.
Really I'm playing devils advocate here but....
What's the success rate of a maybe second round tackle? Not great - at best?
It's not like an NFL superstar that's proven himself getting a second chance on and off the field. He's totally unproven and comes with baggage and distractions. He's never played against an elite rusher. Ever. They said his mechanism in stress was shutting off the outside world- red flag? He didn't realize his sister was a bad partner to choose? Judgement questions? He might be a leader, but do you think guys might worry about following?
I'm not saying it's fair but marginal or unproven talent get a shorter leash then a Vick, big ben, etc.... I'm not saying I agree but certainly we understand that to be true? If there's no risk for a gm, he'd be on a team.
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I think there is racism involved. There are lesbian sisters that I have seen on TV a few times. I don't see charges pursued against them. Two good looking lesbian sisters get good air time, and one big black man gets blackballed and is forced to register as a sex offender.
I wont pretend to know finer points of the law - especially in several different states. I also wouldn't say with any confidence that those are real sisters. I will say the primary argument for incest laws is genetic defects, not racial profiling.
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Wow, you gotta feel for him more so for the lack of guidance. I mean what he did as far as age goes isn't pedophilia. His sister might have actually been the one to iniate said sexual contact, as the article stated, as she was selling herself on the street at the time as well. I am generally not a fan of coddling sex offenders, but this is an exception in my book. I do not see why he should have to be excluded from living 1000 ft from schools and parks. Hopefully somebody gives the poor guy a chance.
If your going to skew it as his prostitute sister possibly taking advantage of him, couldn't you just as easily say he forced himself on her and was perhaps the cause of her devious sexual behavior in the future? Thats one of the things I don't get, is it just cause we need a LT that he gets a pass? What if he were a 2nd round RB talent? Also, at what level of sex offense do we draw the line in the sand? If she was 12 but not related? 10 and his sister? He lived an awful life but can anyone say he didn't realize it was wrong? Maybe he didn't know it was illegal, but theres no way he didn't know it was very taboo and very deviant at the very least.
Also to the commissioner comment -- what should he do? Mandate a tryout?
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How bout the cops not charging him as an adult, so he will have a chance at a real life. Thats not asking too much now is it? But they didnt do that, instead they interrogated a minor for 4 hrs without a parent or lawyer, mislead her, then charged another minor as an adult, afflicting him with a charge and stigma that will never cease to follow him.
As stated in that article, His psych e v a l came back clean, and even pointed to him being a leader, not a sociopath (Vick). If anybody deserves at least a legit tryout, this is the guy.
I'm trying to make two points:
1) the people making excuses, I don't agree with. I don't care how the police found out in this conversation. We are debating what he did, which he's admitted to it happening. I know NOPD is awful, I don't need that lecture. Doesn't mean he didn't do it.
2) I never said he shouldn't get a tryout, I'm saying I get why no one is giving it to him. Very different things.
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His father left the family and his mother worked 2 jobs to make ends meet. The poor guy had virtually no parental guidance. It's a disgrace the league is shunning him.
Is this the same board that shunned Cody for not eating healthy while he was abandoned by father and mom worked two jobs?
I get he had a rough time growing up, but if you are going to play him the victim- wheres the line? He slept with his 15 year old sister. What is the minimum crime that deserves condemnation in that situation? Drugs? Assualt? What if it was statutory rape instead of incest?
is he a monster? Probably not, but would you stake your name or reputation on him if you were an NFL gm? Theres no promise he will amount to anything but he could ruin your career depending on how the media and locals play it.
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I'd be curious to learn more about the investigation. The only two sources we ever hear on this are Tony and his sister, sometimes an agent or coach, but always people invested in tony, and it's framed as a redemption story every time. I suspect that the officers were tough on them, I bet it wasn't an attack or anything but I also bet there's more to this story then we generally hear. I live in new Orleans, and I promise you as much as the article frames it as the fault of his surroundings, I promise you it's not a common occurrence! I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a chance to rebuild his life, but I do think he did something serious.
Also, how would everyone feel if on the offchance our LT couldn't play in Toronto if he were signed?
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HERDY = TERRELLE OWENS not MR MOOS what are ya thinkin?
Ur dum. Hes not a petreot.
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And jamss herdy = Randy moss
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I always thought Roscoe would be devastating on the bubble screens that Steve Smith uses so often with Carolina. Problem is we need an OL that knows how to block it.
Also a problem that he hasn't shown to be explosive downfield like smith. Half the battle is getting the corner respect him deep so he can get space on the screen.
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What hasn't been mentioned yet is how some teams have great offensive schemes which are also quarterback friendly.
Matt Cassell had nice success after Tom Brady went down.
Jim Sorgi always looked good in relief of Peyton Manning.
Byron Leftwich has played his best football (in small doses) since joining the Steelers. Dennis Dixon has played well when given the opportunity.
Rex Grossman has looked excellent in two games under Mike Shanahan.
There are lots more examples of this.
It's quite possible that Chase Daniel is benefitting greatly from being in a superb offensive system designed by Sean Payton and being mentored by Drew Brees. Chase Daniel is in a great situation.
If he were to move to another situation, you couldn't assume he would continue to look as good.
You certainly wouldn't want to trade for him based on half of the preseason.
Agreed- hence he was 3 on my depth chart, but I like him over Fitzpatrick in building the team. I also agree a trade would be silly, but to keep an eye on Daniel and a handful of others could be good. Another example being the loser of the Carolina qb fight,
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Was he an UDFA?
If so, why wouldn't they have gone after him when he was available after the draft? The Bills aren't going to offer up a 3rd or 4th for an unproven rookie FA who went undrafted.
For a rookie he has a rather impressive superbowl ring.
Was on the saints last year.
You're not seriously suggesting we offer a 4th round draft pick AND an NFL-caliber RB for an undrafted rookie QB...right?
Yea, for all your disbelief, I think the silly part is thinking bell is any better then chris ivory, the current 4 on the saints roster. They in fact also have 4 NFL backs in Thomas, bush, betts, and ivory. Also, Chase Daniel isn't a rookie.
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1) chris ivory is playing as well as our 4 and 5 backs. That trade seems unlikely.
2) he might get cut still. Playing well but they want a vet, and might have to use the roster spot to hold onto another bubble player (Arrington being the first to mind, perhaps even an injured daren sharper)
3) he has been a sponge. He has been at brees' hip since signing here. Learning from the best.
I'd rather have a depth chart of
Trent
Brohm
Daniel
Ps- brown
But I'm not holding my breath, or trading anything. I still have a feeling they keep him and put Canfield on the ps. Perhaps with the big surprise of booting Ramsey.
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Why would you think that the QB search will end if we picked a QB in the top five in next years draft....It is not like we have not been searching for one....We paid a 1st for Drew Bledsoe, We paid a next years 1st round for JP Losman. We invested in a 3rd round to get Craig Nall and another 3rd round on Edwards....The common theme amongst all these failures was a CONSTANT CHANGE TO THE OFFENSIVE Philosophy.....Edwards is entering his 4th season and will be having his 3rd OC (in the span of 14 months to boot). Losman came into the league and had 3 different OCs. Even Mike Williams the 4th overall pick had 4 different OL coach during his tenure here... The good teams do not see such turnovers in their coaching staff...It just does not let players develop.
I am hoping Edwards and Brohm are here for the long haul and hopefully the Bills can address other areas.
Remember though, losman was the 4th qb off the board. im not a fan of taking the 4th anything off the board that early. I know some situations justify it but in general.... no. especially at qb.
and i like losman, but way to early for a player like him. im sure the first round pressure didnt help him as a project qb. comparing that selection to a top 5 pick is hardly fair.
I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE SPILLER PICK!!!
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Oh, I definitely got the point, I was more addressing the idea that good teams somehow dont invest in running backs. It seems there is a myth that they are a dime a dozen and winners only draft them in late rounds as an afterthought. Just about every "good" team in this league has 1st round picks in the department, many have multiple early round picks.
If you look at the AFC and NFC championship games from last year --
NO -- Bush (2nd pick)
Vikings -- Peterson (7th overall)
Colts -- Addai and Brown (both first rounders)
Jets -- Shonn Green (3rd), Thomas Jones (FA, originally selcted first round - 7th overall)
I know that shanahan got by with late round picks and it seemed anybody could run in his system but realistically -- good running teams pick backs in the 1st, or atleast find ways to acquire 1st round talent.
If we had a choice between a guy like bulaga (insert any mid 1st round lineman), or a guy like chris johnson (ie possibly the most electric player in the entire draft) -- Its clear to me which will have more potential to help the team. Either one might bust still, but i definitely see the logic in getting a playmaker like that.