BADOLBILZ

I think people are conflating Hollins being a roster lock with him being WR4. He and MVS are well past their primes so neither are likely to be huge contributors in the passing game, IMO but MVS is likely to get more targets so he's WR4 in that regard. REALLY terrible performance from the WR corps as a whole Friday night. Weren't even any Jake Kumerow's out there dominating with the knowledge that they weren't actually going to get hit. Just guys dropping passes when open and otherwise being covered. We will hopefully see if Shavers is anywhere close to playable during the preseason when he's contested and has to catch passes "NFL open". Haven't really seen any of that the past two camps. Right now I see them just keeping 5. And if they had a guy like Aiyuk or Metcalf they might only need 4.

It's primarily the Bills Mafia effect, IMO. Wild fan behavior gets spread on media/social media around the world and that's how a lot of foreigners learn about the Bills. People in all cultures seek out the "communitas" from sport.........like a lot of you nerds who weren't even Bills fans until you moved away from WNY.

Perhaps but it's a also THE boilerplate retirement statement and the timing aligns with a standard "didn't feel like going to camp and it was that time" retirement . Barrett was still a legitimately good pass rusher but he's not the finisher he used to be. I'd say there is a good chance he will return at some point. We've seen guys walk away from money like that and return months later for less when they realize they miss the game and think they can still play. In any event, this has to be seen as good news for the Bills with Chubb and Phillips seen as likely not available for that Thursday night game against Buffalo and now Barrett probably not playing as well.

Yeah, unless Barrett has said it was about the death of his daughter that's a lot of speculation by @Roundybout regarding a very sensitive topic.

That's ridiculous. Toney played 2 games into his second season and got in the dog house with Daboll and traded to KC. He had day 2 trade value. Hamler hasn't even played in an NFL game since October of 2022. I mean........do better.

1) Wrong. If the Chiefs had 2 in the top 32 then how does every team's primary target finish in the top 32? There is no calculus here. Having multiple top 32's indicates that your offense passing offense is among the very best. 2) Why do the Bills receivers have to be "terrible"? Who is saying that? There are just A LOT of better WR corps. 3) Now you are backing off from probable top 5-10 passing offense to just "top 10 offense"? If they lead the league in rushing and rushing TD's and QB rushing TD's they can be top 10 in offense without being a good passing offense. The Tyrod 2016 Bills were the 7th highest scoring offense and lead the NFL in plays of over 20 yards but they were NOT a good passing offense and weren't a playoff team let alone a contender.

Yep because Rashee Rice emerged into a legit star for the Chiefs down the stretch. You don't want to know how good he was in the last 2 months of the regular season. One of the best in the league and after a 6 game stretch of Rice averaging 86 yards per game the Chiefs rested Mahomes, Rice and Kelce in week 17 or they'd have been even further entrenched in the top 32. And then Rice basically caught everything thrown his way in 4 playoff games. And STILL the Chiefs were the 3rd seed and didn't have great passing numbers in the regular season. But the Bills passing game is likely to be top 5-10 without any weapons like Kelce and Rice were? That what you are saying?

1) The point is that creating this caveat that a few players who had played(or would later play) elsewhere had their best season with Allen then requires the rest of their time with Allen be considered for balance. That's the problem with cherry picking. Foster was supposed to become the Bills WR1 in 2019 after his 2018 showing. He fell off the map entirely. How many players who we hoped would perform better fell short in seasons with Allen? The answer is all of them not on the current roster EXCEPT Diggs(though his fall off under Allen with Brady bears noting). Brown and Beasley fell off drastically and unexpectedly. Davis and McKenzie frustratingly failed to live up to expectations in expanded roles. Sanders, Crowder, Sherfield, Harty...........ALL of them were expected to be better than they were with Allen. Josh Allen is not a magic elixir for WR's who suck or have lost it. Brown and Beasley having one modestly better season than their prior career best and Diggs elevating his game while his replacement in Minnesota becomes the greatest producing young WR in NFL history with Kirk Cousins isn't exactly overwhelming evidence in support of Allen's unique ability to significantly elevate everyone around him statistically. The reality is that Allen is an INDIVIDUAL stat monster. Allen ran for over 2,000 yards with 28 TD's in the 3 years that this pass offense has been in decline. That is the fiddle that's kept us entertained while the WR corps has burned. 2) Citing "starts" is what is "convoluted". Beasley never "started" more than 10 games in a season in his entire career. Because of formations. But he played 55% or more of Dallas/Buffalo offensive snaps each season from 2015-2021. Those are "starter" numbers. In fact, he played more offensive snaps in Dallas in 2018 than he did in his 2020 All Pro season with Buffalo. And his 2016 season per snap production in his 833 yard 5 TD season was almost identical to that 2020 production. So any way you cut it, yes Beasley was already established as both a starter AND a player who could produce. As were Diggs and Brown. 3) About 25 teams every year have a 1,000 yard "wide receiver". Carolina even had one last year. That's a very low bar when you have the 2nd best QB in football, is it not? If you are going to pretend it is then you need to "dig into every year". The Bills 1,000 yard receiver is GONE. The Bills highest ranked WR in terms of yardage from 2023 is the lowest such leader of any team in the NFL except Arizona(who just drafted a guy everyone assumes will put up 1,000+ in Marvin Harrison Jr.). I'm not pessimistic. I'm realistic based on probability. Given the data we have, the Bills "wr corps" projects to be among the worst. 4) The common thread among the WR who have left Buffalo and then played worse.........is that it was clear that they were circling the drain when they left. The Bills even brought BACK Beasley and Brown when nobody wanted them because their own WR corps was THAT needy. Gabe is the only one who has left with any promise of production........but even he is departing on a down turn with woeful passer rating numbers the past two years and 12 INT's thrown his way. His lack of development/improvement with Allen has been a devastating blow to the WR corps because they thought he was going to be a star and kept their eggs in that basket for too long.

Here is a good review of the Yankees choices in the MLB draft a few days ago. Also some talk about some of the rising Yankees prospects from the lower minors and the Dominican Summer League. Their first round pick wasn't until #26 and they selected Alabama right hander Ben Hess........who looks like a young Lance Lynn and, come to find out, models his game after Lance Lynn. The Yankees basically selected mostly right handed college pitchers in the 20 round draft. It's what they are best at developing and those players have been very useful in making trades. I don't expect any of the pitchers to make their pro debut this summer, they will go to the training facility in Tampa to have their games modified and get in the physical condition the Yankees want them to be. Some of the few position players they selected might play in A ball at Tampa or Somerset in the coming weeks.

I have been a Spencer Brown defender..........anyone can ask @Simon if they think otherwise ..........he's a tone setter and easy to root for and I think he could be a good one for a long time. But I don't want to pay him market value. I hope they can develop an adequate replacement over the course of the next 12 months. You don't need much at RT to win so paying big money for a RT is not a great idea. Especially if this ends up being a heavy 12 personnel team and he's covered up 40% of the time. The big money is for edge/island positions.

Did you have anything to share on the TOPIC in this thread? Or are you going to stand on your unconvincing opinions on the WR group from earlier in the offseason? It's ONE topic for debate on a message board..........you don't have to read it.........it doesn't have to have a resolution...........nor does WR discussion need to be stopped until some arbitrary date because it bothers you. It sure as f#ck isn't going to be resolved by watching practices. Two of the best practice WR in the McDermott era were Ray Ray McCloud in 2019 and Jake Kumerow in 2021. We will know how the WR corps worked out when the season is over.......just like everything else about the team........so should we suspend all Bills discussion until then or no?

Yeah my bad I didn't notice that you had just randomly changed the number for some reason. Though you should better clarify what you mean by "no receivers in the top 28"..........that's why I said players not "receivers".........because Rashee Rice DID finish 28th among all NFL WR in receiving yards. Rice was, by definition a "WR1" in terms of production. The number 32 is a reference to the fact that there are 32 teams. It's not an arbitrary number. Typically only 4-5 teams end up 2 players in the top 32 in receiving and it is, not coincidentally, always a very good group of teams.

Yanks nice 6-1 win tonight courtesy of an excellent Cole start and Soto's 9th career 4 hit game. Anthony Volpe bases clearing double helped overcome another bad Aaron Buffoone lineup card. Verdugo 4th and Tortoise 5th almost allowed the Rays to just pitch around Judge all night. Wells needs to be batting 4th if Uncle Ben is leading off. Another day, another game where DP Le Pew makes more outs than he has at bats. Yankees should bring Jack Neely up and give him some innings before the trade deadline. If they can get ageless wonder David Robertson from the Rangers for cheap to supplant Clay Holmes I am ok with that kind of deal but these deals for high variance relievers like Lou Trevino and Scott Effross haven't panned out. NEED strikeouts. And they can't afford a beast like Mason Miller from Oakland. They might have a decent 1 inning high strikeout % option with some closer potential in the future in Neely. 6'8 24 year old with a nasty slider and 14 strikeouts per nine the last 2 seasons. Dude misses bats. Been good in Triple A since his promotion from Somerset as well.

The Mahomes era Chiefs really BEGAN this idea of loading up the WR room. They made Sammy Watkins one of the highest paid WR in the NFL when they already had two 1,000 yard receiving targets on their roster in Tyreek and Kelce. Watkins didn't live up to his contract during the seasons but was excellent for them in the playoffs and sealed their first SB win by burning Richard Sherman late. They drafted Mecole Hardman in round 2 and basically ran the Bills off the field in the 2020 AFCCG. When they dealt Tyreek they added a deep ball specialist in the un-washed MVS and a young WR in Juju with a 1400 yard season on his record and Juju produced a top 25 receiving yardage season and sealed their 2nd SB win drawing a PI late. The rest you mentioned. They have tried HARD to be great at WR.

How can you say that? One of them was rookie wide receiver Rashee Rice. The other is a first ballot HOF TE who also averages 15 MORE yards per game in the playoffs in his career.

They had two players in the top 32 in receiving yards. As they always have under Mahomes. The only year the Bills had that with Allen was by far his best season and the Bills most successful season under McDermott.

I haven't seen anyone say Curtis Samuel isn't a really good WR3. Standards are high for WR1 and WR2 when you are trying to win a SB.

Yankees vs. Phillies and Yankees vs. Dodgers given highest odds as two most likely WS matchups. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40571201/mlb-2024-second-half-preview-rankings-playoff-odds-all-30-teams

For Mike on Horse***** and US Egg

You are TSW's official king of gaslighting. That's at least 3 different topics where you've done it in this thread. I see people just refuse to address facts that refute their claims when they know they are wrong...........that happens all the time........... but not intentionally lie over and over to try to confuse readers into buying their line of BS. If that's who you want to be..........so be it. Those political tactics are just repugnant on a sports forum........anyone can get their fill of that elsewhere.

With the way that people grasp on to things that McBeane say..........I am just at a loss to understand why some fans can't see that they made a major shift to "complementary football".. That just isn't congruent with the pass heavy offense's that Daboll ran. But they think they are going to get the best of both. They've made a shift and some of us think they've shifted too far(again).

I just know that it's always a good bet that your takes will be wrong. You are TSW's all-time LEAST accurate poster.

Here is what you are agreeing with: "Bottom line, not only is expecting the group to rank higher by seasons end not unreasonable, it’s statistically the most probable outcome based on history of all receivers and weapons that play with Josh Allen." Then you are wrong too. More of these individuals in question have not exceeded expectations than have. By a substantial margin. That's not a criticism of Josh Allen. Nor is it a "line of reasoning".

Again this was EXACTLY what you said so cut the "not even remotely close to what I said" bullish!t : "Bottom line, not only is expecting the group to rank higher by seasons end not unreasonable, it’s statistically the most probable outcome based on history of all receivers and weapons that play with Josh Allen." I underlined it for you this time. Maybe that will help. I gave you a paragraph full of "weapons" who have had disappointing seasons and/or failed to perform to expectations with Josh Allen. Clay, Benjamin, Foster(year 2), Davis(3 years), Knox(multiple years), McKenzie(Lil' Dummy phase), Brown and Beasley(aside from one season each), Sanders, Sherfield, Harty........ Some of those guys were "starters" or expected to become(or remain) "starters" and impact players. That's a lot more "history" than Diggs and one season each of Brown/Beasley. Fact.

You should quit trying. And day drinking. And making "kiss-of-death" Bills predictions.