BADOLBILZ

It's not confusion, as I explained, it's intentional vaguery. One of the problems with lumping together Kincaid and Shakir as prospects for massive progression is that they are at opposite ends of the target/productivity spectrum. Kincaid had a lot of targets and didn't do much with them. 9 yards per catch is borderline pathetic for a non-RB receiver. Whereas Shakir had few targets........but was extremely efficient with them. The same rationale doesn't work for both. We can presume that they will have higher bulk numbers but will they lead the Bills receiving weapons to a better season thru the air? Because they entered the offseason knowing they needed to get considerably better around Josh Allen. Somewhere along the line the apologists have lowered the bar to quietly better.

YOU said they were the Bills best receivers at the end of the season. It was an intentionally open-ended, vague statement. Maybe because it makes you feel better to have SOME kind of rationale. There have been lot's of those statements in this thread as people like the OP ambitiously rationalize the weapon situation the Bills organization has put Allen in. Perhaps not as obviously ridiculous as the "in aggregate" talk or the "defense's won't know who to cover" hilarity but suspect nonetheless.

Tell that to @hondo in seattle and @NeverOutNick.........who @Dr. Who was responding to and who I agreed with. Hondo said "The best receivers at the end of the season were Kincaid and Shakir and they're both still on the team." Nick gave that an "Amen!" Again.........too much is made of Shakir and Kincaid's play down the stretch..........Diggs and Davis production underwhelmed..........but Shakir and Kincaid didn't tear it up either. Even in that limited stretch their production didn't resemble what you'd want from a top option. And that was against lesser defender's than they figure to have to face this season. Comprende? Or do you still want to argue out of context for the sake of arguing with me? Because I'm done explaining the obvious. 50 and 40 yards per game ain't going to get it done for the top weapons.

My premise is based on what I originally responded to.........the false narrative that they were top 2 receivers by the end of last season. Try to keep up.

Oh as always you protest too much. Like I said.........the narrative that they were already the top 2 receivers is wrong. Neither was producing good "first option" bulk numbers......even over the limited sample size........and we haven't yet seen what they will do with the tougher matchups that guys like Diggs and Davis absorbed for the offense. Important to note.........the objective in Buffalo shouldn't be to get back to the level of offense that they were in 2023. A team that was one play......like Kadarius Toney lining up offside.....away from missing the playoffs altogether. A team where one of the OC's had to be fired and the other guided Josh Allen to passing lows he hadn't seen in 5 years. The objective should be to get back to the level of the 2020-2022 offense's and those had a WR1 option that was putting up over 1400 yards per season AND had depth of solid receiving production from guys like Beasley/Sanders/Davis/Knox/Brown.

And a bit too much is made about the play of Shakir and Kincaid down the stretch last season. The narrative is that they were the top receivers down the stretch........but produced just 52 and 41 yards per game paces.........which projects to just 882 and 697 yards in a 17 game season, respectively. Not surprisingly Allen's passing numbers in that stretch were his worst since at least 2019. That kinda' production ain't gonna' cut it.

Good guy off the field........one of the league's dirtiest on it. Allen's first career regular season game was against the Ravens and Judon took some cheap shots on Allen that day.

https://www.nfl.com/videos/can-t-miss-play-josh-allen-s-75-yard-td-bomb-pinpoints-gabriel-davis-in-stride The 75 yarder to Davis in the 13 seconds game is probably my favorite. The game looked like it might be getting away from them and to make THAT throw then was extraordinary.

The Bills current logo is among the best in sports. And it incorporates all 3 colors. No offense, but from a distance yours would look like an ink smear. Like the grazer/dead buffalo does in throwbacks now. It's not worse than the grazer though, but the grazer is bad.

Of course. Why wouldn't it? You've cited my point about how unaccomplished the Bills offensive weapons are many, many times...........and then conflated it with points about the WR corps in general. Of course, if NO PLAYER on the Bills has done it then that includes WR's as well but that's beside the point. Should be common sense, but not surprisingly lost on a scatterbrained fellow who thinks a bootleg Wu Tang Clan Bills cap is a New Era official. Just go to the embroidered baseball cap kiosk in the nearest mall and show them what you want. Those Israeli nationals will f#ck with the Wu Tang Clan's intellectual property and there is nothing those Staten Island Bills-hating Jets fans can do about it. Did you not realize that the New Era logo can be embroidered bootleg too? C'mon man.

They didn't have any players with more than 110 catches, 1416 receiving yards or 12 receiving TD's in any NFL season.

Update for you and @NewEra: The bar has been lowered again. Now the Bills have zero players with any season of 852 or more receiving yards in any NFL season.

Technically correct but Davis is the better outside receiver.........and that's the more premium position because it's harder to fill with quality. Davis and Shakir are both very position specific, IMO. Every camp the Bills would try to integrate Davis as a big slot and fail. Last year they put him in the slot on the first snap of the preseason with both Allen and Davis on the field.........Allen gave him a perfect pass on a slant and it deflected off of his hands for an interception. Experiment over. As time went on and it became clearer that Davis didn't have any secondary pitches defense's just sat on his limited route tree.

The term "track star" in US pop culture often refers to a person who runs from confrontation/adversity. Even seeing the term more often used for weak-willed women now. Maybe Noah is trying to puff up and get some respect. Sorry, Noah.........but track don't mean sh!t to the US public in general.

They lost their top 2 boundary receivers though. Slot-only receivers like Shakir are easier to find. I know some people think Shakir is somehow going to be great outside the numbers but I don't see it. And when I was at practice he was the only receiver NOT running anything intermediate or deep. They'd all be breaking it off 10-15 or more yards down the field and in the same sequence Shakir was pivoting at 5 yards. I think they know what Shakir is and want to keep him there. The problem is that Samuel is also best in the slot and IDEALLY Coleman would be given a ton of slot reps because successful teams are using the slot to A) free up their WR1(see how the Dolphins use Tyreek Hill for instance). B) Break in raw rookies with WR1 ceilings (Rashee Rice and Puka Nacua for example).

Unfortunately, the excuse was great HC's in Bill Parcells(with Belichick), Joe Gibbs and Jimmy Johnson going against Marvin Levy. Total mismatches. In 3 of those games those far superior coaching staffs had 2 weeks to prepare. Only one that was close was the short-week SB XXV and the Giants still managed to put together gameplans on both sides of the ball(the defensive one is an all-time great) to upset the largest SB favorite ever to that date in time. McD has his limitations but more in the vein that Schottenheimer and Cowher had theirs. But they were organization builders. Marv was a puppet for a GM lead organization and player lead team.

Claypool was a complete bust of a dumpster dive???

Mahomes and Watson had much greater "pedigree". I don't think that's what you actually meant because Mahomes was the son of a pro athlete and had put up huge numbers in college. Watson was an absolute superstar in college. Teams over-thought it with Trubisky. He had a nice season but they thought there was A LOT more upside there than there was.

Yeah someone would always say "I have it in" for Wade because I said he was an idiot for not wearing a headset so that he knew what plays his coordinators were calling...........or when I said that "coach of the year candidate" Dick Jauron would always be 7-9 because he coaches not to lose..........or that it didn't make sense for Buddy and Chan to use their entire first season to "evaluate personnel" before making any roster changes.........or citing that the only reason you would hire that many coaches is if you didn't want to do any work when Rex was trying to have a 1:1 coach/player ratio. The pattern is quite the opposite........I call it like it IS.......others like yourself in this case(for some reason) let totally unsupported personal feelings get in the way of good analysis. I get that some people were dumb enough to believe that Daboll made Josh Allen into a star QB. That's because they didn't believe in his talent/ability from the get-go. But you should know better than that. Terrible takes by you in this thread, dave. Need a nose-pinch emoji.

Yeah but MVS is washed up, IMO. He put up a paltry 300 yards last season with a HOF QB in his prime and lot's of opportunity. They probably have to keep him because they don't have options outside.......but his presence isn't going to draw extra attention unless he and Allen prove they can make teams pay over the top. He hadn't really been doing that in KC so not sure why it will be different now.

My concern is that the lack of imposing intermediate AND deep receiving targets will allow defense's to compress the field and make all the units look worse on offense. They badly need a playmaker outside to make big plays and command extra attention. I doubt they have that guy in house. Without it, expect DC's to be able to throw the kitchen sink at Allen and this offense for the first time since before his breakout season in 2020. Allen is great but this is going to be a step up in degree of difficulty if they can't make defense's defend every "blade of grass". I think I was accurate in predicting they are going to try to get by with a lot of tight formations on offense but I don't think that tactic is likely to work for long if they can't win lining up outside the numbers as well. It is a crazy situation to be in when you have a QB who can make throws to parts of the field that are uncharted for most defense's. Defensively, my biggest concern is LB depth. Both the Bills starters are durability concerns, IMO so the depth is important there. Dorian Williams is key, IMO. I hoped he would step up big this year, but that's more of a question mark now, IMO. Still could happen though, hopefully the light comes on. Spector and Ulofoshio are nice talents too but also brittle. If they could stay healthy Bernard and Milano should be about the same as they were early last year(which was excellent) but I doubt that they will stay healthy. DL: should be slightly improved. Contract year for Groot and maybe an extension year for Epenesa so could see big things from them. Von should be improved. CB: should be improved. Love that group. S: I expect to be near the same........I know that's considered a hot take but I don't think the safety play has been that good the last 2 seasons so the bar isn't like it was back when Hyde and Poyer were excellent. I think they can slap together a decent pairing with what they have.

Just correcting a clearly incorrect take by a fellow poster. Kendrick Bourne is also proven. He's on PUP but they expect him to be ready early in the season and be their top veteran WR. Last I checked he was still ahead of Osborn their depth chart. I just jumped into the thread at that point so I have no idea what you are trying to prove talking about another bottom tier WR corps but your information is false.

Yeah and your lack of a strong point is probably because you don't have the conviction to actually analyze his work. He's NOT a "decent-enough" coach. He's either excellent or awful. Nobody has made Daniel Jones look as good OR as awful. His work with Josh Allen in 2020 and in the playoffs in 2021 looked great. His work in the second half of the 2021 regular season with Allen was terrible and he probably would have been fired if that continued in the playoffs. That's who he is. His offense's are all about HIM........and he's not as smart as he thinks he is. It was interesting to hear Joe Brady say the offense was Josh's........Daboll would never say that.

KJ Osborn has averaged over 600 yards receiving the last 3 years. More than any receiver currently on the Bills in that span. You should know that, he's not some unknown. They got a slapped together corps of WR2's and WR3's and a second round rookie that some think will be a WR1. Same formula as the Bills.