BADOLBILZ

Yeah I mean Moulds averaged 150 targets per year from 2000-2004. Some people act like he was just running free and they weren't throwing him the ball. He wasn't a guy who excelled at getting open. The routes he got open the most on were comebacks where he could push off at the top of the route. And like you said, he was inconsistent so sometimes he'd have planted a CB on a push off and would drop a 7 yard pass that hit him in the hands chest high with nobody within 10 feet of him. This is not a guy that the good west coast offense's of the day or Mike Martz were going to appreciate. He was NOT open, reliable and efficient. He was perfectly matched with Bledsoe in particular. Two guys that looked way better on the hoof than they actually played and could put up big numbers on bad teams.

I liked the Kincaid pick too. But he has sucked. I suspected they knew more about him as a competitor than I do. When talking about Coleman's poor finish to the season they mentioned that at least he is going into the offseason knowing he hasn't made it yet unlike what some players do who have modest success early. They were obviously implying that Dalton Kincaid thought he had arrived as a rookie and didn't understand just how much harder he was going to have to work simply not to regress, let alone improve from his modest start. I mean........Puka set the NFL record for receiving yards as a rookie. That's like a Bears fan saying "yeah, but if we didn't pick Trubisky which QB would you have taken?". 😂

Knox has been criticized aplenty on TSW. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Not sure what you think the links you posted represent but it's apples and oranges. Knox is a real, inline TE. And still.......when targeted he has been WAY more effective than Kincaid. He just isn't put out in the route every snap like Kincaid was as a rookie. Your bulk catch/yard stats don't show that Allen has had a much higher passer rating when targeting the more dynamic Knox. Kincaid was the first TE the Bills ever drafted to not actually play TE. That's the only reason why he has one of the most modest and unimpressive team records on the books. He was nothing more than a slot receiver as a rookie and his production was high volume and toothless. When Cole Beasley flamed out in 2021 he could still play patty-cake with the QB in front of the sticks like Kincaid has. Caught the same 82 passes as in 2020 but for almost 300 less total yards. 11.8 ypc down to 8.5. He could not get past the sticks consistently with RAC like he had in prior years when he had some spring left in his legs. Kincaid has that same malady and he was only 24 and 25 in his first 2 seasons not washed and old like Cole. He is two years in and STILL averages less than 10 yards per grab for his career and has a knack for not being able to fight for the extra yardage to move the chains. With Kincaid not getting the job done in the slot they tried to diversify his role and have him play some TE and he didn't respond well to a more physical role. His hands became suspect and he couldn't catch a contested pass to save his life. He is a talented athlete but has proven thus far to be way too soft for the job he is needed to do and has been a huge disappointment. And McBeane were basically saying the same thing I am when they were critical of him after the season.

After playing himself into shape in the season last year instead of showing up to camp ready.........I wouldn't be surprised if Torrence loses his job if he does that this time around. Not to Green but maybe Anderson or Grable wins one of those guard spots.

It's good that you are learning your Bills history but given that the average age of the members on this board is probably close to 60........I think most of us remember that game. Unfortunately he also fumbled after one of the longer grabs. Carelessness with the football(especially Flutie) cost the Bills a game they should have won with ease. 1998 Moulds was the best WR the Bills have ever had and it's not close. He was unreal. 20.4 yards per catch is insane with that volume. Nothing Andre Reed or Diggs did was as amazing as watching Moulds that year. He had been seen as the slow guy in the first round class of 1996. The future looked brilliant. Unfortunately he went overboard on the weight training, got heavy-legged and wasn't nearly the same player after that season. By 2000 he was rarely open. Fortunately for him he had a succession of physically talented passers who couldn't see the field to save their lives so they just chucked it to him 10 times per game from 2000-2004(his prime). The idea that he was hindered statistically by the Bills QB play is comical. If he played with a QB who could see the field and find the open man he would have seen a lot less action. There is no way a Josh Allen is just throwing jump balls to him all day like the field-blind Bledsoe.

Yep he didn't play well thru injury either. Two bad hands as well.

What "rookie records" did he shatter? He has the 11th most receiving yards by a rookie TE ever.......even though he was really not also used as an inline TE like almost everyone else on the top 25. Shattered? Not close. His 673 is over 500 yards less than the current rookie record. He's also the only one on the top 25 to not even average at least 10 yards per catch. 9.2 is pathetic. Kincaid basically replicated the low impact production from the slot that got Cole Beasley cut after the 2021 season and then followed that up with a much worse sophomore season. Dude is also going to be 26 this year. Not some raw kid.

Yeah I think if he can get and stay truly healthy he can still be a force. As he said, he came out of camp feeling good last season and he then had a tremendous start but quickly got hurt and it hampered him all season. He's had such an assortment of injuries it's hard to believe that he won't just keep getting hurt.

The success of Rousseau and Benford more than makes up for the bust picks of Basham and Elam..........but Beane should note that if he is drafting needy like that then he needs to keep taking 2 of them. Beane has been terrible at pro personnel and hasn't gotten enough star players for our liking in the draft but I do appreciate some of his technique. Polian, Butler and Donahoe used to drive me crazy with their decisions in the draft. I remember the 1995 draft was absolutely loaded with guard talent and the Bills were a mess on the OL. I felt they needed to come out of that with 2 of those studs. They got Ruben Brown but sat on their hands and drafted Todd Collins in round 2 instead of making a slight move up for one of a BUNCH of tremendous interior OL who were still on the board. You have to draft to the strength of that draft. And especially if you are doing so needily.

Sure he could conceivably be re-born. I just doubt it because it's obviously not likely after 3 straight years of injuries and poor production. I also can't get behind the idea that $12.6M is "no risk". The odds that he becomes the all-around impactful 50 tackle/10 sack 2021 Joey Bosa are probably sub 10%. The odds that he just gives you 2023 Leonard Floyd level sack production are probably less than 25%. This is why the other teams were reportedly offering much less. I'd say he got money that would normally be associated with at least a 50% chance of being worth it. That money usually gets you that. Not in this case. Like everyone else I am hoping Beane hits the jackpot but this Bosa/Hoecht/Ogunjobi/Palmer class is 4 guys paid with the obvious expectation that they all would be more productive in 2025 than they had been in 2024. It feels eerily reminiscent of that 2018 class he signed expecting the same thing.

Kincaid entered the NFL as a TE in name only. Comparing his production to real TE rookie seasons is the bad take. He was put in the slot and fed the Cole Beasley diet as a 24 year old rookie and that lead to a bunch of catches but no yac and no red zone impact. He literally put up numbers that got Cole Beasley cut after the 2021 season. He supposedly had the best hands in the draft in 2023 but he had a woeful second season filled with big drops and an inability to make a contested catch. This is a guy they traded UP for in the first round. Yeah, he has sucked to this point. He needs to get A LOT better at EVERYTHING a TE is asked to do in his age 26 season.

Yeah, your morality division is interesting but not anything to do with the point. The point is.......Moulds personally wasted 2 years of his career(when his 1996 draft peers came out firing). Which were also 2 years of some of the most talented Bills football teams he played on. He's not a sympathetic character even if you don't care whatsoever about him being a deadbeat dad, choking women out or knowingly infecting them with STD's. He wasted more opportunity with his lack of focus on his craft early than he lost later by not having a great QB. Having guys like Flutie and Rojo and Bledsoe gave him guys who had limited field vision and were therefore willing to throw jump balls up to his always-covered ass 10 times per game in his prime. Literally 150 targets per season in his prime 2000-2004. He had a near perfect setup in Buffalo to be able to succeed despite his limitations getting open. After his surreal 1998 season(the greatest Bills WR season ever by far).......he put on 10 more pounds of muscle, which slowed him down considerably and he then struggled mightily to get open for the rest of his career despite there being was much less physicality allowed within routes, at the top of routes, and prior to the catch point than there is today. Much less. It's almost an unrecognizable game played in the secondary by comparison. Back then, receivers were hit at the line but then could not be grabbed, ridden around and water-skied all over the field like they are today without drawing a flag. Defense's instead dealt with them by gratuitous violence as the ball arrived and after the catch.

Yeah........how many times have we linked the clip with him arguing with fans and telling them he can do as he pleases because he's rich and they're not etc..? He and his bro are well known to be douches........and that kind of arrogance is not a negative in his line of business. But at this point, he sounds like a guy whose confidence is about crushed. While his friends/associates in media were talking about how he has a lotta' football left and just needs to have a big year and get back in the big money game next offseason.........he sounds like a guy who took the biggest deal he could get because he thinks it's probably the last one. Hard to blame him. Kicked to the curb by his team a couple weeks earlier, low-balled on the market, hasn't been healthy for 3 straight years now. Instead of asking your wife to analyze his personality ask her to get her rosary out and start saying prayers for his hopeful but unlikely return to form. 😂

Yeah there is little point in trading Kincaid for anything less than a straight-up day 2 pick at this point, IMO. As I said, the key season in TE development is typically year 3 so they just need to hope he got the message in his exit interview and the thinly veiled criticism they've made of him to the media. I'd love to draft a 2026 Knox replacement in April. A real full-capacity TE. But going into the season with just Knox.......the low level backup quality Morris........and a rookie.......is not a great spot to be in when they already don't really pose much of a matchup threat at WR.

Yeah it's so refreshing hearing a 29 year old player you just signed admit he could be washed.