starrymessenger

Not only did Damien Wilson not know where he was, he didn’t know he should be somewhere.

I’ve been annoyed with Sherman’s antics at times, especially on field post game interviews, but I attribute this to the level players have to psyche themselves up in an ultra competitive environment. He’s no Ali or Berra but he does have some great quotes. My fav? Asking a scowling Tom Brady after a Super Bowl loss “You mad bro?” Classic, lol. Hope this isn’t too serious.

In fairness I think the two have a lot more in common than just physical build. They clearly also have similar attributes for playing the position. I’m not saying Herbert is a better runner than Allen but based on 2020 Herbert ran about half as often as Allen, gained half as many yards, had exactly 1/2 the number of +20 yard runs and had almost exactly the same average yrds per carry as Josh. Regarding intangibles/competitiveness, teams (read “Dolphins”) misjudged Herbert. He was thought to be too laid back to lead the way you want your QB to lead, but he proved that assessment to be entirely incorrect. Even then I don’t know that he can be as competitive as Josh but clearly leadership is not a weakness in his game. Herbert has an excellent arm capable of reaching any spot on the field. It may not be Josh’s arm but its not far off and clearly better than all but a handful of starting NFL QBs. As another poster has said, Herbert had the benefit of grooming in a big school programme. I would add that he had a much better roster to work with when he broke into the league than Josh did. Not surprising therefore if he had a better rookie year. Though record setting, there was quite a bit of unevenness to his performance in 2020. He struggled sometimes in he second half, especially against Ds good against the pass (Bills, Patriots) and although he had a good last game against KC, Andy Reid rested his starters, including I believe most if not all of his starting DBs. Right now Herbert has a lot more to prove than Allen. He needs to show that, like Allen, he can get better year over year. So there is risk there meaning that if anyone took him ahead of Allen based on what we know now, that person would probably be making a big mistake. Fact remains though that Herbert looks awfully good and chances are he will establish himself as a franchise guy IMO.

To me they are very close if comparing metrics. Josh did slightly better in agility drills and ball velocity. Herbert had a better vert, long jump and 40 time but again pretty close. They are almost clones. I do feel that Allen is a more dominating/intimidating presence on the football field but we will see how Herbert makes out this year.

You certainly have a point insofar as measurables are concerned. I knew he did well and greatly improved his draft stock but did not realize how close Herbert’s combine scores were to Allen’s. They are both great athletes and really quite comparable that way it would appear. Its also the case that Herbert’s athleticism, like Josh’s, translated really well to his on field play last year. Herbert’s spectacular first year was obviously better than Josh’s, though Allen was better than him last year. Herbert’s play also slackened off somewhat down the stretch, whereas if the Bills didn’t quite make it in 2020 it was not because of Allen who continued to be a main difference maker on the team viz the Colts game for example. With a year of tape on him you have to wonder whether defences will start to adjust/catch up. Given his great rookie year the bar has been set very high, perhap0s unreasonably so. Allen’s performance curve has continued to rise year over year since he entered the league and I don’t see where having lots more tape on him is going to make much of a difference in defending against him.

Agree. I like Herbert a lot and I’m pretty sure he will develop nicely. They can probably go a long way with him at the helm (glad he’s not in Miami) BUT he can’t do all Allen can do (few if any can). Allen OTOH can do anything that Herbert can do. Allen is the greater athlete and the point is his superior athleticism translates increasingly well to the live action as his unique physical skills are harnessed and adapted to the requirements and possibilities of playing the position at a high level, giving him the edge in any comparison. So IMO Herbert is a great prospect but our guy is a cut above. With a little luck and a championship or two under his belt Allen may well wind up in the HOF. I think he’s that good.

Josh is big, fast and feisty. In the open field and with a head of steam I wouldn’t want to get in his way (not sure I’d want to get into Moss’s way either). My question for you, better expressed, was whether you think Allen would be more productive than Moss or Motor if he actually lined up as a running back, as they do. I’m not sure he would put up better numbers playing behind our line. Many of his open field opportunities come from essentially broken plays where the opposing defence was set up to stop the pass. The RBs don’t get those opportunities. I think Lamar would be a very good tailback but then I don’t consider him elite as a QB (though I’m not saying he’s not a QB).

I’m not sure I would agree that Allen is the best rusher on the team, even if he has to date wound up being the most effective. For sure he’s a much better runner than Moss or Singletary are QBs though.

I don’t necessarily agree or disagree. I was going to mention in my original post that two things were missing in (at least my) comparison of Edmunds and Taylor: 1) Straight line speed is nice but does Edmunds have anything like Taylor’s burst off the line and 2) does he possess the insane motor that Taylor had? I don’t know the answer to those questions because I’ve not seen Edmunds line up like Taylor. You seem to think you know and maybe you do. And maybe that explains why McD has not gone there. As for agility I thought (haven’t checked) that Edmunds did well in agility drills. I wasn’t implying that Tremaine was in the same league as possibly the greatest defensive player of all time, just that his physical and possibly mental attributes as well might be better suited to the outside. And if he had 3/4 of the burst and motor Taylor had along with Tremaine’s other skills he might be very good in that position.

I think its possible that McD is being a little stubborn. I also think its possible, and indeed more likely, that he knows exactly what he’s doing. I don’t see it but so what. I’m just a fan.

I agree. Would you play Lawrence Taylor inside and ask him to quarterback the defence? I sure wouldn’t, and neither did Parcells. Tremaine is bigger and taller than Taylor was and his 40 time is down to the hundredth of a second as fast. He’s all round a ridiculous specimen and athlete. I think he’d be better suited to a more aggressive role on the edge. He’s not Luke but maybe he could be more like Lawrence. Seems obvious to me but I guess Coach knows best.

I can certainly agree, since it was abundantly evident from his play last year, that Tua was raw. No doubt a lot of that had to do not only with the competitive advantage he had playing for Alabama in college, but also because he was being asked, especially by Chan Gailey, to do things he probably had never done before and which scheme wise did not necessarily play to his strengths. The things you mention specifically as challenges, performing off-script, throwing into tight windows, making that back shoulder throw away from the DB and the like are exactly the things he experienced problems with. Tua’s arm looks to me to be strong and accurate enuf to execute a short to medium range timing offence where he stays in the pocket, which he seems to work well with good footwork and elusiveness. His long ball looks to be generally accurate too and now he’s got Fuller to stretch the field and Waddle to hit on crossing patterns underneath. He also can show good touch at times. He knows how to use his eyes to hold DBs as plays develop for his primary target. He’s not a running QB of course, but he can help himself out with his legs when plays breakdown. There are reasons why he was picked #5. What I think he will never be able to do, as you put it, is perform off-script, to improvise on the fly outside the pocket. He is quite simply not big enuf, strong enuf, fast enuf or athletic enuf to do that. Some of Allen/Diggs best moments were totally unscripted. I don’t think you will ever see that from Tua, which is another reason for thinking that he is likely to be somewhat limited to executing a strictly disciplined, structured timing offence exclusively. Now its up to your OC to design the right system and play calls and for the staff to coach up all the talent that has been drafted to help him out. Its just a guess but I would not be surprised if Tua developed into a legit starting calibre QB, though of course he still has to prove it. I don’t see him as an elite prospect for playing the all important position.

I think the cap/dead money implications are the same for Philly whether they trade or release Ertz. So it looks to me like they want a player or more likely a (maybe mid round) pick in return. They are hoping that someone (probably the Bills) will want Ertz badly enuf to both take on his contract and give up a player who can help them or a pick. If Beane wants Ertz and the Eagles release him Buffalo would likely have to compete with maybe 3-5 other teams in negotiating a new contract and with a player who had already asked the Eagles for changes to his existing agreement. Sort of looks like Beane is not for now interested in (possibly) overpaying for Ertz, since the prevalent opinion is that any contract he signed with a new team would be for less than $8.5 million. Maybe Beane waits it out thinking he can outbid the competition, pay less than 8.5 and not give a pick. A new Bills contract might also be for more than a year. Roseman is hoping that Beane thinks Ertz is a major upgrade to the Bills TE position sufficient to appreciably improve the Bills chances for a championship. I don’t think this is an unreasonable position, even if nothing comes of it. Ertz is really a very good and reliable TE who probably has years left in the tank. He won’t get the targets here he had in Philly in 2019, but I would not be surprised if he returned to that year’s form as a player, which has got to be good for Allen and for the Bills, plus he’s a decorated vet who could help bring Knox along. I’m hoping Beane gets it done.

I like what little I’ve seen of Rousseau’s gametape. I think he will gain a lot of leverage from using his length. He’s not Bruce Smith but I think he will find ways to make himself an unwelcome guest in the opponents backfield and disruptive in defending both the running and passing games. Basham I have no opinion on but clearly Bills had him high on their board. I don’t expect either of these guys to be more than bit players this year. Basham may be able to contribute more because he is big enuf to play now. Rousseau really needs to bulk up. I get that he’s 6/6 but I saw him recently standing next to Calais Campbell. He looked like a guy with one stripe on his pajama.

I look forward to seeing what Breida can bring to this offence as a speed back and how Daboll/Allen will be able to use him. He is obviously far from an every down back but he doesn’t need to be that here either, maybe more a change of pace. He’s a hard working player who has pretty much done his best to improve his game. He was not a receiving target in college but he has developed into a very good option in the passing game, which is what the Bills O is all about. He’s also worked hard in pass pro and is adequate at least so that DC’s can’t necessarily assume a limited number of possible play-calls when he is in the backfield. Thing is his productivity as a NFL back is pretty much correlated with the strength of his O-line. He played behind one of the best lines in SF. Contrary to what you might expect from a smallish speed back, he was mostly run up the middle of the field. His game was not end runs/sweeps and looking to turn a corner. The SF line opened holes whether inside or off tackle and he wasted no time hitting them. He was also stuffed at the line quite a bit. Looks to me that his troubles in Miami probably had more to do with the fact that despite attempts to improve what was probably the worst line in the NFL in 2019, the Finns weren’t able to get it done in 2020 (maybe not surprising starting three rooks). The Bills have decent talent on the O-line. Whether or not the player combos work and are logical or not from a run game schematic perspective is another matter but I expect Breida to bounce back somewhat this year running the ball and I would hope that he can help open up the playbook a little. How he works out may also provide a good comparison of how Shanahan and Daboll stack up. KS was clearly able to play to Breida’s strengths.

Agree. Boogie’s gonna Bash’em.

Yeah but Allen makes Beasley the best slot receiver in the league and 100% a badass. It would be a big big loss.

Cosell is an analyst and football historian not given to hyperbole so when he says that Allen is the most physically gifted QB ever it actually means a lot. Confirms what many of us with less knowledge and perspective have thought. And just wait till he masters that bubble screen. As for the AFC East, Finns are the real competition. If Tua can develop as a competent game manager, which at this point looks to be his ceiling, they are talented enuf to be very tough. I really don’t know if he’s ready to take that step.

Numbers may or may not be as good. We don’t even know if he will have Bease as a target, but Allen will be a better QB by year’s end than on day one. Getting better is what he does. He’s the real deal and a DC’s nightmare. Its not all rocket science. Like PM you pretty much know what he’s going to do the problem is stopping him. I don’t think having now seen him for a couple of years is going to give opposing teams much additional insight.

JMO but to me Jack is a giant on the American scene, like Ali, while Nassib is just a gay football player, no biggie. But maybe I’ve got this all wrong.

Hmmm…well, if true, I’ve got to wonder how high the toll would have to be before they agreed.

600,000+dead Americans makes it right IMO.

The issue is of course bigger than Beas and therefore threatens to adversely impact the 2021 season IMO. Rumour has it that less than 50% of the WFT has been vaccinated. We don’t know what Josh Allen’s, and other stars’s, vaccination status is. Heaven forbid that any players should get really sick like Calais Campbell did. Even in the absence of symptoms, a period of compulsory quarantining can take a chunk out of a player’s availability. The protocols are really just an accommodation of the player’s right to not get vaccinated. Without them they would in all likelihood just be suspended. Although football is a religion to many, no First Amendment freedom of religion argument and override of the conditions of employment is available here. So unless he changes his tune, and he won’t IMO, Beas is toast. Thats a shame. He’s one of the guys whose play I most admired.

Yeah, this laughing stock business is total nonsense. Every professional talent evaluator and serious analyst at the time was in awe of Allen’s physical ability. Only question was whether he would develop, which is pretty much a question you have to ask about almost any prospect entering the pros, but most especially at the quarterback position. As I said after we drafted him, he was absolutely worthy of a high first round pick. If we didn’t take him he would be in Arizona, who picked right after us. As matters have developed Allen looks to be almost unique as a difference maker. True Beane has surrounded him with talent but even with Diggs, who arrived in Allen’s third year, it is still less than what for example Aikman was given to work with right away after the H. Walker trade. From the get go Allen has personally done more to raise his offence’s level of play than any QB I can think of, including even in his first year (with Luck and Vick being possible exceptions). Lousy teams can ruin a great QB prospect (Jeff George) or cause a very good one to quit or never have the success he should (Luck, Stafford). Allen is in good hands but the lion’s share of the credit goes to him.

If Beane was seriously trying to move up it was for J Phillips imo. Pass rush was a greater need than RB, even a very good one who could figure in the passing game. The Bucs RBs are not what beat Mahomes and the Chiefs, it was their D line. Beane wanted pass rushers so bad he drafted two with his first picks. I tend to think that was his focus all along.