starrymessenger

Wrong. Chris Draft is a very serviceable veteran player both in run D and in coverage. Nothing wrong with him. A good signing in the circumstances (though a trade for Witherspoon would have been better still). I like Nic Harris and Ashlee Palmer a lot. But they are much more likely to screw up at this point in their carreers than Draft.

Don't agree. We will see.

If you are right (and of course you may be) he should forget about playing QB in the NFL and has no business on a NFL playing field. At the end of the day it makes no sense for, say, an insurance salesman to share the same space as a e.g. Ronnie Lott, or Ray Lewis or Jim Kelly. Speaking for myself, I am perplexed and frustrated by Trent and I just can't figure it out to where I am comfortable coming to any conclusion. A lot of what people say makes sense. Somehow I still feel that I am always missing some important piece of the puzzle.

My post was unduly provocative, for which I apologize. I think everyone understands the importance of playing behind a good offensive line, and the difficulty of playing behind a bad (or inexperienced) one. Many posters on this board however think that this simply cannot fully account for Trent's poor play. I agree with them. There are other issues. I think that Trent may have the physical ability to be a good QB, and I think its possible that he may still develop into one. But, for whatever reason, there clearly just seems to be something wrong in his head.

I do see him as elite but regardless I also find it strange to hear him complaining about our shortcomings on offence. Also looks to me like his coach is rubbing off on him. Too bad. I liked him a lot better as a quiet kid and shut down corner.

While driving the team bus maybe. No offence, but seriously this was a very good thread before your post.

I am pleasantly surprised that I am not as disappointed as I should be.

It would be a lot like listening to a picture of Jauron.

I also meant "linemen".

Very true. I intended to mention this together with the comment that RFs job was going to be harder than KO's for that reason. BTW I think the Bills did the right thing in blowing up that O-Line. Short term pain, long term gain. I really like our rookie interior lineman.

Agree that TE would appear to have marginally better physical kills than RF, but suffers from a much more significant and debilitating limitation - call it lack of self confidence or "over-conservatism", or whatever, (everybody on this board knows what I mean)- that just kills his ability to make and execute the right decision. I think the KO/RF comparison is not unreasonable, at this point at least. KO is probably a better passer, but RF is certainly more mobile and is a legitimate threat to run effectively. The real similarity is that we think there is perhaps a viable chance that both KO and RF are the types of QBs who can just find a way to win despite the fact that neither one of them will ever have elite skills. I will gladly take that any day of the week. RF deserves a chance to prove that he can be that type of quarterback. After seeing the Trent led Bills routinely blow short yardage third down conversions what a welcome change it was to see RF twice convert on QB sneaks against the Jets. Just a detail, but little things can make a world of differrence. Catching the Jets on a quick snap with too many men is a little thing, but it shows good awareness. Little things can win ballgames.

He wasn't hurt until well into game 3. Went 7-9 the year before with losses to such powerhouses as the Browns, KC, SF49s and, oh yeah, the Bills. The point is not that CP is not a great QB. The point is simply that the team was not much good. At least RFs 13 points were good enough to win a game for a change.

And Carson Palmer was 0-4 on that same team.

You are right in pointing out that JP and TE are completely different characters. Still, and especially for this reason, I find it strange that in some respects they wind up looking alike, and not just in terms of general ineffectiveness - for example being unable to accurately throw a short pass to a running back. One of Trent's attributes was supposed to be pinpoint accuracy. You are also right about it having to do with leadership. Players need it and naturally you look to your quarterback to provide it on offence. I can remember an in game sound bite where Randy Moss was desperately imploring Daunte Culpepper to "lead us" with tears in his eyes. Daunte was looking at him like he was out of his mind, but I think the point is still valid. Trent doesn't look like much of a leader right now. I suppose it doesn't help his confidence either when TO drops a perfectly placed 40 yard bomb and guaranteed TD.

I have no problem with Alphadawg's post. As for RF, at least he has a couple of 300+ yard passing performances. Trent has none. RF was third last year in QB rushing yards. Trent has been exposed at length and by many as having poor pocket presence and mobility. RF looks pretty calm, collected, and confident out there. Periodically TE looks (and acts) totally psyched out. I suspect that Trent has to some extent at least lost the respect and trust of his playmaking teammates because they believe he can't help make them better or successful. If he demonstrably has no confidence in himself, there is no reason for others to have confidence in him. Trent has not looked like a good quarterback playing behind an inexperienced OL. He has for all the world looked like a mediocre quarterback behind an inexperienced OL. Philip Rivers did a segment before the MNF game vs Denver. He said that a QB will never hit a big play if he does not trust in his instincts and in the abilities of his receivers, even if doing so necessarily involves taking on some risk. Trent never trusts in his instincts (if indeed he has them) or in the ability of his receivers to beat coverage (though both TO and Lee are good at that). Not trying spells failure with virtual certainty in the long run. At least RF will try. I sure hope Trent can turn it around for his and our sakes. Would like nothing more than to see him succeed. Wonder (but don't know) how much of this mind numbing losing conservatism is a reflection of DJ.

Bills should have a hard look at him. Undrafted, true, but this was for off-field issues. Talent wise definitely a first day selection. Not to downplay the problems, but he is a talented, young DT.

Sure if we can find some run-D and Trent doesn't play = Bills 34/Panthers 17

Fooled you too I guess, as it did the refs. This was not a gang tackle to prevent further forward progress. But it was dressed up to look like that. The action causing injury began when TE was already bent backwards at the knees. He wasn't going anywhere. Maybe the refs had not blown the whistle but most roughing the passer and/or unnecessary roughness penalties occur before the play is whistled dead. Trent was deliberately mugged because opposing players know he is susceptible to injury. In the normal course putting a starting quarterback out of action generally improves your chances of winning. That is why they did it. Kawika Mitchell is probably the only Bills player with the nastiness to get even for something like that - witness his chin strap hit (technically not "helmet to helmet") on Kurt Warner after AW clocked Trent in the Arizona game last year.

Why do you want Trent since you know that he will not use his WRs? Look, this is really simple. If this offence had a QB that could get the ball to the WRs it would immediately go from deadbeat to very high octane.

I think that was exactly what he was doing - trying to make sure that he would not be intercepted and getting to live with an incompletion rather than with a game changing event. Add to that the weather and the lack of first team reps and I think you have the reasons for his unimpressive passing performance. I think that he is better than that. We should find out soon enough.

Everybody knows that Lee and other receivers have been open. It was highlighted by the guys on AFC Playbook this past week before it was picked up on by Dion and Mariucci. The people on this board also know it even better than the talking heads. I really don't know what Fitz is capable of, but I do think that he is likely to make much better use of our skill position players on offence. If nothing else it will give us some insight into what a top QB could accomplish with these resources. Quite a lot I suspect.

The Cowboys probably won in spite of him. He ran a very easy camp and in season practices (sort of like DJ). This was a source of serious confrontation with T. Aikman, a true professional and a perfectionist, who couldn't stand him. Most other players thought he was a bit of a joke too, though again (sort of like DJ) people liked him personally.

ok...and he is only 5'11" and he is 33 years old...but he is solid in run defence and in coverage. He is a good veteran who can still play. Even very good teams can use players like that. Certainly we can use him. Coaches have enough on their plates right now. Once he is up to speed at least they won't have to worry about him screwing up. He will certainly help our young backers learn the pro game.

They just signed a good veteran OLB - Chris Draft. This guy can play and makes no mistakes. Neither he nor Todd Johnson (who is a little slow but is a sure tackler who takes good angles-unlike Ko) would have been cut loose by the Rams if that team had any chance of doing anything this year. Draft was jobbed and a cap casualty. He is a solid player, no guff.

Jets should be dominant on defence - not at all sure about their offence though. Game might boil down to which defence forces the most turnovers.