starrymessenger

Allen may or may not succeed. That comes with the turf. But to compare him with Jamarcus is flat out ridiculous. JR was a great athlete who completely lacked the intangibles, the work ethic and the desire to be great. If you had taken the time to acquaint yourself with Allen you would know that his intangibles, work ethic and desire to be great are top shelf (even if he is also a great athlete lol).

Absolutely no supporting cast. None. Like I said, Sam Darnold would not have looked any better, indeed probably worse, QBing that team in that conference. As BRooklyn Bills has noted above, if he had spent the last two years at a football factory with good receivers and a running game the production would be there. There is a clutch of QBs with much better stats who will be taken after, some long after, he will be.

I get the idea. It's pretty simplistic. Of course there are more who fail than succeed. A good QB, let alone a great one, is hard to find. Odd that the football professionals will be taking "a mediocre QB in a sub par conference" off the board at or near the top of the draft.

You were a diehard defender of EJs accuracy - until you turned on him. You were the first poster on the GS train - until you had to disembark. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who remembers even if you have forgotten. Allen will not be drafted high only on the basis of his athleticism. He has great intangibles. Of course the landscape is littered wth athletes who did not develop as QBs. EJ is an example. But there are also guys who came up displaying elite characteristics who panned out pretty well. Big Ben. John Elway (closest to Allen) as a QB type. Many thought Cam would bust. League MVP instead. The folks who do this for a business will be taking Allen of the board very early. It's not because they are clueless and don't know what they are doing.

Comparing Josh Allen to EJ Manuel makes me want to puke. Yes EJ was a big guy and he was athletic for his size. But Allen's athleticism is in a different dimension altogether. EJ was always an innacurate passer, even at FSU. Maybe you should revisit Bud Elliot's pre-draft assessment of EJ in Tomahalk Nation. It was 1000% spot on. I wish Whaley had taken the time to read it. EJ was part of the worst QB class in memory. My guess is that only one GM was deluded enuf to take him in the first round. The Patriots had him graded as a fifth round pick under the caption "athlete". EJ was an innacurate passer. In fact he could not hit the broad side of a barn. Allen is not "innacurate" in the same way. He often displays excellent accuracy, especially when making the more difficult throws. He needs to work on touch and the short passing game (the "easier" throws). Allen is inconsistent with his accuracy, like Cam was. That leads many to think that his issues are mechanical and will improve with coaching. A lot like Cam. Allen is 21 years old. True he was a nobody coming out of high school. He couldn't land a gig at a big football factory. But the guys who run the big college programs who passed on him are for sure kicking themselves now. Allen's 2017 team had basically no good skill position players (except him of course). Whatever they were able to accomplish was very much because of him. I would love to see how Sam Darnold would have made out with the team Allen played on. And actually Darnold and Allen are similar prospects except that Allen actually has a higher ceiling. What scouts see is that his throwing mechanics are much better than Darnold's. No wasted motion, basically straight over the top. And y'know that's why these two players will come off the board at or near the top of the draft (in spite of what you may think). Back in the BBMB days I remember you being a diehard defender of EJ's accuracy when it was clear to anyone who was not blind that he had none. You were also the first guy on - wait for it - the Geno Smith train. Remember that. Choo choo!!! As a judge of QBs you have no credibility. You should follow your own advice in this thread regarding box scores and college stats.

I did not realize that Canada was available. I'd like him a lot. A bright, creative, innovative guy is not a bad way to go. Look at the Rams. As far as QBs go my guess is that Beane likes Josh Allen. Why? Because he was Director of Player personnel in Carolina when they picked another circa 6'5" 235 pound QB who could run like the wind and had a very strong arm. There were lots of questions surrounding Cam's ability to transition successfully to the NFL passing game (some might say there still is lol). He couldn't throw a shallow out at the Combine but the Panthers were confident that he could develop and they were right. Some folks also question Allen's accuracy but the funny thing is it's the "easy" throws that he needs to work on. His long ball accuracy is considered very good. When Beane says he does not want a scheme specific QB I think he's signaling his preference for a prototypical big boy pocket passer. If the guy is mobile that's a plus for sure. I think Allen goes to Arizona or Denver. They may have to move up to get him.

Allen could be taken #1 overall. Personally if his head is right I would take Rosen ahead of him but I see Allen and Darnold as equivalent value with a similar risk reward profile. My guess is that Allen winds up in Arizona or Denver.

Yeah like I said he should have set up and fired. And Hill looks like his first read on that play. He bails because he sees the SAM who has an unobstructed path to him, but NFL QBs are expected to stand in and make that throw. At least he bails because he sees something (JH). You have to understand that we are used to seeing a QB bail because he has bad field vision and sees nothing.

My wish list - we scoop Alex Smith for a third or better, Josh Allen unaccountably falls to us and we draft Christian Wilkens with our second pick.

Not to quibble but the reason Alex bails is because he sees the SAM (James Harrison) with a clear path and breaking for him so he tries to keep his distance while surveying his options to the weak side. I agree that ideally you would have wanted him to hang in there long enuf to see Hill streaking free to his left for a sure TD. So yeah a bit like Tyrod there. IMO he would have probably had time to see Hill and deliver the ball before Harrison decapitated him, but just barely. A bloodthirsty Harrison is about to catch up to him on the sidelines just as the tape runs out.

Marcel Ateman is big and fast. Have you're cake and eat it too. Of course I wouldn't say no to say Calvin Ridley or a smaller speed merchant who can take the top off a defence and who can run routes. I want upgrades at the position tho and I have no idea how the braintrust has prioritized their board, and I include QB in that.

If Rosen wants it he will be a very good NFL QB. He makes all the throws and makes them accurately. He's ready to roll. By far lowest risk of any QB in this year's draft. Only question is how badly he wants it.

I tend to agree with the italicized part. Marcel Ateman will measure in around 6'4" and 220 pounds. He's faster than Washington (projects sub 4.5) and has good hands. Cannot imagine why anyone would grade Washington ahead of MA. Oh and the Bills seem to like big boy WRs. Marcel can play outside. Move Zay to the slot where he can thrive (eventually).

He's a big boy who looks the part. He has put up extremely gaudy passing numbers. BUT the concern is whether he will transition to the next level. He plays in a very QB friendly college offence and he has great receivers who make a lot of difficult catches for him. The main problem however is that he is regarded as having only average arm strength. Of all the spread QBs who have thrown for monster yard totals only two, Patrick Mahomes and David Carr, have been high draft picks and the only reason they were was because of their ridiculous arm talent. Rudolph does not have that. I think he'll be there when we first pick and I would not be ar all surprised if we pass. Pro scouts and GMs generally are not really that impressed by a guy like him.

Tyrod is a lot like me. I won't win the Bills any games but I won't lose them any either. Seriously, I have a ton of respect for him. There is no dog in Tyrod and he's every bit a stand up guy. I hope he's over his headache and I wish him the best.

Bortles is a better bad passer. At least he was yesterday.

A number of really good RBs in this draft. Michel is one of them fo sho. Question is do they bolt for one early or hold their breath until the 3rd and maybe lose out on a guy they like.

Like I said if he's 6'1" I'm definitely interested. He looks a lot shorter to me but idk. We will know for sure next month.

Well if nothing else it's going to be a fascinating off season.

Ok so you have probably seen more than me. I've seen the 2017 bowl game (can't bring myself to say "potato bowl"), the highlight reels and tape of his Iowa game. I watched Iowa because of the step up in competition and because he was said to have performed poorly. Though he lost, I thought he did some good things. His team was not very good. When you say "big three" I assume you realize that Mayfield is not very big. Do you really think that Beane is going to draft a signal caller who is probably less than 5'11"? That ain't like Cam or any of the other QBs on Carolina's roster. And hasn't Beane in the past expressed his preference for big pocket passers as a QB type? According to the pundits and wise heads I've seen , the "big three" are Darnold, Rosen and Allen, not Mayfield. Does anyone with any cred grade Mayfield ahead of Allen? I understand that you draft Allen (if at all) based on how you think he projects, in other words on the basis of potential. But to me the same has to be said about Darnold. His throwing motion is awful, his throwing mechanics are bad and his footwork leaves much to be desired. He's a top prospect because of the things that he does well and the hope that he can improve on the things he doesn't. The only guy who gets drafted on the basis of what he is and what he can do now is Rosen IMO. Your view that Allen is really a third round pick (who we all know will go higher) is shared by others. He's the most polarizing pick (except maybe for your guy) in the draft. Since you've seen more of him than I have, what is it that prevents him from being better? What is he bad at? Where are the principal risks with him?

I think he's gone when we pick, but if he's not I'd be all over him. I would consider a trade up, but a modest one that does not gut our draft. I think the value is pretty much equivalent to Darnold. I compare him to Darnold because they both come with risk, Sam probably less but then he has a lower ceiling than Josh Allen (and that's really saying something because Darnold has a high ceiling). Rosen I think is in a different category and in a class by himself (not because he's necessarily a better prospect). If he wants it you can be reasonably confident that he's going to be a very good QB. So less risk and he's good to go right now. He's the best pure passer in this class and a very good one at that.

His stat sheet is lousy no doubt. Some folks who have followed him and seen all of his games say it would be a mistake to think that he is truly a sub 60% passer. Poor supporting cast and he's the farthest thing from a check down artist. He's a deep ball thrower. No clutch of cheap and easy receptions in that 56%. His physical attributes for playing the position are nothing short of phenomenal. He will wow them at the combine & senior bowl. He will be no less than the third QB off the board.

It takes time.

I think that makes sense. Don't know about Rudolph tho but only because I'm not sure his ceiling is high enuf. Of course maybe they love him for all I know. Allen is the guy who really intrigues me. I think he may be very close to equivalent value to Darnold because he has an even higher ceiling. The one I like as a person is Rosen. I just think a guy with a golden arm who is "meh" about football is pretty cool. It's a risk factor tho when it comes to drafting.

Yeah what's interesting is that they had a chance to pick a good QB prospect last year and passed in order to start building the team. Some observers are of the view, possibly with justification, that none of the top 3 in this year's draft are as good as Mitch, Watson and Mahomes were. If the braintrust at OBD feels the same way they may continue filling holes instead of blowing their whole load on a shiny new piece. My guess is that if a guy they like falls to them or is within easy striking distance they may well pull the trigger. Otherwise they will draft a QB they like from amongst the second tier players day 2 or day 3