starrymessenger

I believe the Browns will be doing that if Indy hasnt. I would not do it from a Bills perspective. He's a generational talent and we need to draft a RB, maybe even a potential franchise back, but it's a deep class and no matter how great Barkely is he is just one player (and not a QB) and I don't see the value in burning that kind of draft capital for him.

If Barkely is there at # 4 the Browns will take him IMO. Franchise QB at 1, franchise RB at 4. A match made in heaven. If Indy takes Barkely at 3 maybe 4 opens up but Browns might still want a franchise RB to firm up the rookie QB (Guice). If the Colts don't take Barkely maybe the 3 spot opens up, but Gore is 34 and so why wouldn't the want the best back since AP? Maybe our trade partner is Tampa, but that might be to late for the guy or guys they are prepared to burn big capital for.

The decision makers can change but given recent history and as a franchise relative to its fanbase I would not be at all surprised if the Browns are reluctant to pick a QB first overall who is patently a boom or bust prospect. I would speculate that they are risk averse and more likely to go with perhaps a player with a slightly lower ceiling but less risky. Rosen is the closest to a sure thing but somehow I see him more in NY as a Giant than suiting up as a Brown. Rosen at #1 and Barkely at #4 looks pretty darn good to me.

Coach Petrino's playbook is pro style and complicated. Jackson was fully in command of that offence. It's not a good thing unless he can execute from the pocket. Whether he projects as being able to do that is the question that has to be answered and that will be answered in due course. Many feel that there is plenty enuf evidence to say that he can. Nobody is drafting a guy high in the first if they see him as a run first QB with limited potential as a passer. Tyrod went in the sixth. Making adjustments to an offence when turning the reins over to a rook is absolutely normal as the player gets acclimated. They did it with Ben, with Brady and most notably and most recently with D. Watson.

PFF is one source. There may be others idk.

Agree he compares with Vick, but favourably because his intangibles are better. Vick was legitimately dual threat. He had NFL arm talent but when he first came up in Atlanta he had a porous line and only really one guy, fat Algie Crumpler to throw to. If he has Vick's skill set without the character concerns I'm in.

To me bottom line he is a good prospect. He has a lively arm and can be deadly accurate with it. That tells me that mechanically he is fundamentally sound and does not have major flaws like other guys in this year's class ie Darnold. It looks to me like he reacts quite well under pressure, unlike Allen for example. He's short and my gut tells me that Beane could consider that to be a problem, though I'm not sure to what extent it will impact his evaluation. He's not at all a bad apple but as others have said he needs to mature. He will soon be playing with adults and he needs to behave like one. My guess is that he can do that. A criticism I have heard several times is that he never moves off his first read and holds onto the ball too long because he waits until his pre snap read is wide, "college" open. In other words his decision making does not reflect a QB who properly goes through his progressions. So he allegedly passes up more attractive options as the live action develops and doggedly sticks with the pre snap read come hell or high water. He's quite capable of looking off a safety for example but always in service of a programmed single read in effect. I haven't studied him myself so I don't know if that's true and I don't know either how serious a problem it might be, in other words is it really all on him if true or just the system. But I offer it for what it's worth because I have heard it from different sources.

Hot takes and media traction? Or an in depth honest assessment? When he first came out with this in a panel discussion in mid-September the other participants laughed at him. I guess we will have to wait to find out who is right.

Josh Allen's stat sheet is ugly but I really wouldn't put too much stock in that. His physical traits for playing the position are elite. But of course there is a problem. The problem is that he is an impulsive player who will overreact to the chaos around him rather than calmly process information. He is extremely fidgety in the pocket and often shows an alarming lack of poise. The result is that he is impatient, will often not make the right read, will make poor decisions, will not work the pocket well, will bail from it way too early. And when all of that happens his mechanics go right out the window. In other words the problem is not the physical skill set. It is genuinely elite. As with so many QBs and QB prospects however it's the cognitive aspect of playing the position that is lacking. The question for anyone looking to draft him is whether he can calm down, get his feet to be less happy, stand quietly in the pocket as he goes through his progressions, make the right reads so that the right decisions can follow. Right now he's most developed as a long ball thrower. Give him a clean pocket and a little time and he well show you excellent mechanics. With those good mechanics you also get accuracy. When that happens you think you are looking at the second coming of John Elway and actually you really are. There is no other arm like his in this draft. But buyer beware. There is something coming between him and greatness. It's called pressure. He just can't handle it. At least not now. When he gets pressure he is Tyrod at his worst. Sure he may impress you with his speed and strength (in Tyrods case less pure strength and more moves) that can yield positive yardage, but Bills fans should be wise to that not being enuf, not nearly enuf. That's not being an NFL QB. Tyrod was never able to learn those things (if indeed they can be learned). I hope for his sake that Allen can. If he does he will be really, really good. The experts will have to form a view by late April. Believe it or don't, but I think Lamar Jackson can do those things. That's why he's my #1 prospect.

Wow. Polian certainly understands that to be a top shelf QB in the NFL you have to be a passer first. When Cam Newton first came into the league he said he was a running back. To his credit, he added that he thought Newton had the ability to execute from the pocket. Based on your post, it seems that he is of the view that Jackson will be unable to do that. So he's saying that Jackson is or should be a wide receiver, like Pryor. The Pryor comparison is one that I have thought about. I came to the opposite conclusion however based on what at least I thought I was seeing as well on the basis of what I read and also heard on podcasts. More importantly there seem to be a lot of knowledgeable people who disagree with Polian's take. Im not a subscriber so I probably won't get to hear exactly what Polian had to say. Too bad because I'd be interested to know his reasons. If Beane shares Polian's opinion there is no way he would draft Jackson before the fifth round if at all. I wouldn't either. Somehow I really don't think that is what's going to happen. Ok so he's just an idiot lol. I feel better now.

People saying Jackson needs to find another position are delusional. He has excellent pocket awareness, knows how and when to step up, has a big arm, sees the field, can read a defence and can absolutely go through progressions. He threw for like 3,700 yards last year while running for 1600.. As has been mentioned, adjusted for drops his comp % is higher than Darnold's. He's the #1 prospect IMO and 100% a QB. He has a mechanical issue pushing off his front rather than his back foot that causes his ball to sail at times. But that's it and it will be corrected. It's not the kind of flaw that's hard to iron out. Darnold's throwing motion definitely is hard to correct and is much more serious. They tried unsuccessfully to coach it out of him. It's a big problem. Kiper and Cowerd don't have Jackson in their first round mock. That's ludicrous. He is more likely to be the first player off the board than to he is to drop out of round #1.

He will have to show his arm in passing drills before the draft, combine-pro day, otherwise it will definitely hurt his status. There is a lot of tape on him but the pro evaluators absolutely want to see him perform in person close up and show if/how he makes certain throws. To me he has a good enuf arm to make the throws, he's accurate and he can throw with touch to all areas of the field. I'm not at all sure that he can make those throws that require a very strong arm, so he might be limited.

I think the smoke screens and fake news have started already. I would not trust anything I heard coming from the teams and their entourage this time of year.

Prior to 2017 he was always in the shotgun with pistol alignments. That changed in 2017. Petrino actually prefers a pro style over spread concepts and he wanted Jackson to show what he could do under centre, partly to improve Jackson's draft status. I don't have the % breakdown for his snaps but though he continued to take the strong majority from the gun, like many pro QBs do, He significantly increased the number dropping back, because pro QBs re sometimes required to do that. He may not have prototypical size and he needs to fill out his frame, but with another 15 lbs he is 6'3" and 230. That's big enuf IMO. He is also pretty good at not getting squared up for big hits. Tyrod has been pretty durable all things considered and I think that the bigger Jackson might be even more so.

Yeah, Locker is his downside. To me he is in the risky pick category, with Darnold and even Rudolph. The other guys are safer IMO.

No. Jackson ran a pro style offence and was fully in command of it. He is better prepared to transition in that regard than a guy like Rudolph.

Josh Allen is not Flacco. He is extremely athletic and clearly has the potential to execute outside the pocket and make plays with his legs when necessary or even by design. Not a statue. The statue with the great arm in this draft is Rosen.

Allen has elite QB traits. Value wise I think he is equivalent to Darnold, not that they are the same player (although comparable). Allen gets a lot of flak for poor footwork and throwing mechanics but right now he is most developed as a deep thrower and when you give him a clean pocket he actually displays very good fundamentals. It's in the short passing game and when forced from the pocket that his footwork and consequently his accuracy tends to go downhill. So he has things to work but with the benefit of good coaching and player development he stands a chance of making it. If he can give full expression to his physical skills while doing the other things an NFL QB must do he will become a franchise guy. Both he and Darnold are risky picks IMO. The safer guys are Rosen, Jackson and Mayfield. I think if you are projecting their ability to transition there are fewer questions with them than with respect to Rudolph. Kipers draft is ridiculous. He doesn't even have Jackson going in the first (like Cowherd). There is no way that the Bills pass on him if he is there at 21. Thing is he almost certainly won't be.

Just a guess and one fan's opinion but I strongly suspect that Jackson has Beane's attention in a big way as well as that of evaluators from other teams. The two best prospects for playing the position at the next level are Jackson and Rosen. If you want a traditional pocket passer who can make all the throws with accuracy and touch and who is ready to stand in behind a good offensive line and play at a high level Rosen is your guy. But he is limited inasmuch as he is pretty much unable to operate outside the pocket either as a runner or a passer at the next level. Jackson is not a Tyrod clone. He was fully in command of Petrino's complicated pro style offence. He can read a defence and go through his progressions. Tyrod could never do that. He is exactly the same guy today as he was at Tech. Jackson can execute from the pocket. Except for designed runs he stands in very well and can see the field. He bails only when he has to and when he does he keeps his eyes downfield and squares his shoulders before firing. Unless Beane feels that Jackson can develop as a pocket passer he won't consider him, but in my view it's pretty clear that Jackson can do that. The last thing that anybody wants, especially in Bills land is a guy who is really just a running college variety spread QB who cannot see the field and bails early. That is not Jackson IMO. There is a problem that affects Jackson's accuracy and that causes his ball occasionally to sail high. He pushes off his front foot rather than transferring his weight properly after pushing off his back foot. He absolutely needs to correct that. Not making excuses for him but lots of good prospects taken high in the draft have mechanical glitches in their throwing mechanics that need work - Patrick Mahomes, Sam Darnold. In fact Darnold's issues are much more serious and difficult to correct. He has a big windmill arm motion where the ball drops to hip level before coming back up - the exact opposite of a compact delivery. It's led to many turnovers in college, so imagine what will likely happen in the pros unless he corrects that. And that's a lot harder to correct than Jackson's weight transfer problem. To me Jackson is the top QB prospect in this class all things considered, followed by Mayfield. At 6'3" and circa 215 he needs to pack on another 15 lbs to fill out his frame, especially if he's going to make plays with his feet, but he got thicker in his body just last year so he is still developing that way and it shouldn't be a problem for him. In Carolina Beane was part of the team that drafted Cam, who was the most talented QB in that draft. Jackson is the most talented QB in this class IMO. There were lots of questions concerning his ability to transition from a run heavy Auburn O to a pro offence where he would first and foremost have to execute from the pocket. The concerns were legit. He did poorly in passing drills at the Combine. But the braintrust had confidence that he could get there. I think Beane may well come to the same conclusion regarding Jackson. If I'm right about that you can bet Jackson is on Beane's radar and very prominently so. If I were the Browns I would consider making him the first overall pick and then going Barkely at # 4. Two generational athletes. I'd actually be happy for long suffering Browns fans. I just don't want him to go to the Jets, who are definitely drafting a QB (unless they sign Cousins).

They won big time. I think he's still the highest drafted defensive Bama player ever. He was worth the #2 spot when Indy took him, and he was worth the picks we gave up for him. And he was a linebacker. Imagine that.

Jackson has clocked a 4.34 40. Tyrod ran 4.51 at the combine. Cam ran a 4.56. Tyrod is 6'1". Jackson is 6'3". (College measurement).

Regardless of how we feel about trading up, the Bills will do it for a player they like if they see value in the trade. And it doesn't have to be a QB (though this year it very well may be). They traded up for Zay Jones for cripessake. And they did it with JuJu still on the board. I would trade up for Smith before Zay, and I like Zay.

Cornelius Bennett says hello. Technically not a trade up but six of one and a half dozen of the other.

I think the Bills are very hot to draft a QB this year and this is a promising class. I think they like more than one guy and are prepared to move up. I don't think any of the teams ahead of Tampa Bay will be trading down and I think there will be more than one team looking to trade with them and probably for a QB - watch Arizona and maybe Washington. So it's possible that the QBs that the Bills most covet will not even be available. If that happens I could see the Bills moving up for Smith. Of course everything has a price and I don't know just how desperate the Bills are to land their guy this year. And of course Cousins could change priorities on draft day. For example the jets are definitely upgrading the QB position this year. If they sign Cousins their spot may well be up for sale. Of course they wouldn't want to deal with us necessarily, especially if they had other suitors.

These are early days as far as the evaluation process is concerned. IMO rankings will change, maybe even a lot, before the dust settles. There is the combine yet to come, interviews, pro days, private workouts, the senior bowl week and game. The draft talk we get from the talking heads is probably way behind where team scouts, GMs, directors of pro/college personnel are at already. Eventually the two streams will converge more, subject to the effect of the usual misinformation and smoke screens. Look at Cowherd's first draft. Lamar Jackson is not a first rounder according to him. You know that will change by draft day. I think this is a good class for QBs and I think the Bills are very interested in getting someone they like and they probably like more than one guy. As many have said you could easily see six guys go in the first round and all of the players in question likely deserve to go in the first. JMO but the three guys I would consider blowing big draft capital to get are Jackson, Rosen and Mayfield. The other three guys (Darnold, Allen and Rudolph) are worth moving up for but not to the same extent.