starrymessenger

Josh Allen should drop. Probably big time. Thing is it only takes one fool. Sweet Jesus let it be the Jets.

JMO but I think he has reasonable mobility/short area quickness. He can only earn his keep as a passer but he can help himself out at times with his legs provided he gets his head out of harms way.

First QB in a historically bad class. And he wasn't even the best of a bad lot. Sorry but I can't give them any credit for drafting EJ in any round, not even an A for effort.

Could there be one (or 2) growing on a tree in Minni - Case, Teddy?

Bama does come up often in these types of discussions but it's nothing compared to the range of characters you get at Florida - a Evangelical Christian QB throwing to a serial killer tight end.

Well I agree with that. in comparing Allen's and Jackson's mechanical issues the thing that gives me confidence that Jackson can iron it out is that he very often displays excellent mechanics, does exactly what you want to see him do. So clearly he is fully capable of doing it but sometimes just gets lazy. I'm not at all as confident that Allen's issues can be successfully addressed, partly because they are different and also because I feel they run deeper and are more serious. The great A. Rodgers has a mechanical issue that affected his draft status and has occasionally damaged his performance as a pro - a 5 or 6 game stretch in 2016 for example. When that happens he works with his QB coach to correct things and his play improves. I see Jackson as having that kind of manageable problem. Not so sure about Allen.

Surprised you would say that. Most observers see Allen as someone who can be groomed to excell as a pocket passer with enuf mobility to operate effectively outside the pocket when necessary. To many of the same folks Jackson is just another ultra athletic running QB. Very different types. My view is that Jackson is not just a running QB who should be. a WR at the next level ( oddly no one is saying Allen should try out as a tight end). IMO although he needs work Jackson's mechanical issue is not serious and that he projects as a very good pocket passer. Just an incredible talent.

If you put Mayfield's skillset in Josh Allen's body you have the consensus # 1 pick overall and it's not even close.

An astute observation IMO.

If you take a negative view he's a bit reminiscent of Losman. Athletic with a huge arm. Also, they are both good long ball throwers (going from memory I believe Allen's completion % and accuracy is relatively good on long throws). I think we all remember the difficulty Losman had in the short passing game, how frustrating it was when he could not even hit a back ten yards away with a screen pass. Allen has the same problem. The root of the problem in both cases is poor footwork. Those "easy" passes are actually quite difficult to complete if you've not got your footwork down. We often saw some of the same with EJ and even Tyrod. With both Allen and Losman another underlying cause of the bad mechanics in the short and intermediate passing game is skittishness in the pocket resulting from poor awareness and pocket presence when under pressure. Neither guy seems to display (at least consistently) the kind of feel for the pocket that enables good pocket passers to buy time by stepping up or making sometimes small lateral movements. They bail way too early. Sure it's impressive when Allen once on the run breaks tackles or carries a linebacker for 10 yards on his back. But the obvious comeback is "Dude, why didn't you just step up". In fairness to Allen the offence he led featured predominately pro concepts. It's much harder to a have a good completion percentage operating in that kind of O compared with a college spread. It's also true that he didn't have much help and when you give Allen a clean pocket and a little time to set up properly his mechanics are actually quite good. It's in the short game and when he gets pressure that things can fall apart. Whoever drafts him, especially if high in the first, had better be very confident that his Losmanesque tendencies are correctable with coaching and reps. If not he's really not going to be good.

Sure but teams at the top of the draft may well love and covet the same guy.

Anything you hear this time of year you take with a grain of salt, but it's clear that the Bills have to be seriously considering what their draft would look like if they did not draft a QB in the first round. A guy or two that they really like could very well not be available even were they willing to pay the price. My sense of it is that if a player they like a lot drops to the mid-first or thereabouts they could look to trade down with say Green Bay to jump ahead of Zona, who are probably also in the market for a QB. And it goes without saying that if a guy they like is there at 21 they will likely run to the podium. If that's accurate then who are the QBs most likely to be on the board and within range? Odds are Jackson and Rudolph. As between the two, everybody will have their own opinion (including the Bills, though we don't know what that opinion is). Many of the early mocks have both guys falling out of the first already, including Jeremiah's). JMO but if Jackson is there at 21 I feel strongly that Beane will be unable to pass on that rare a talent. To me you just don't pass on that kind of talent, even if the guy needs some work and is probably not ready to see the field until late in the year he was drafted or in the following year.

You are dead wrong there. The folks who bring the drinks and sandwiches at noon call them that.

Lol That is all.

Another reason why Mahomes should probably move up is mechanics. The thing that hurt him was poor mechanics. It's pretty much the main reason some folks were against him. Although the sample size is small, it looked very much like he had those issues under much better control. It was clear that the Chiefs had spent a lot of time working with him to correct those flaws. Iron out those problems and there is a lot more to like.

What he and Rudolph (injury) have decided will not help their draft status. There is tons of tape on both players but given that transitioning to a pro offence is a question I'm sure that the pro talent evaluators would have liked to see them in live action and up close. An equally important question with respect to Mayfield is his character and he will be interviewed so that's good. The attending coaches will also get to see him interact with his teammates throughout the week of practices. And they will get to check out how he does in passing drills. Not participating could be more of a problem for Rudolph IMO. Mayfield and Allen were to play on the same team. Maybe this buys Allen a bit more playing time and that is really more important in his case. He is obviously going to wow them in shorts but the main question is how well will he play against a big step up in competition. He did not do well playing last year against power 5 teams. Why did a guy with prototypical elite traits and football smarts (he's very good in front of the chalkboard) play so poorly? If he lights it up in the game he's probably going top 5. If he craps out he will drop, maybe even a fair bit.

I doubt it. I once saw a pic of Tom. I swear he was ironing his underwear. Once I got past that I remember thinking his hands were really big.

Must say I guess different people see different things looking at the tape. What I (and some others) see is a young passer who shows remarkable composure. What he has most of is poise in the pocket. His feet are extremely quiet. He doesn't bail until he really has no other choice. In the meantime he keeps his eyes downfield. There is no comparison between Jackson's and Allen's pocket presence. At this time, Jackson's is far superior. And it only really makes sense to compare prospects that run pro style offences for pocket presence. One way to think of the major questions concerning spread QBs is whether they will have any at the next level at all. Their experience in spread college Os doesnt really tell us. There is an issue regarding footwork that he needs to work on. His stance in the pocket sometimes has his feet too close together. The reason for this habit may be his arm strength that lets him throw a football 60 yards with the flick of the wrist. He knows he can get it there without setting up text book proper so he doesn't bother doing it. The problem is that this leads him in his throwing motion to push off his front rather than his back foot which in turn causes his ball to sail at times and which I suspect generally makes him, for now, less accurate than he should be. But this is not the kind of flaw that is difficult to correct.

I like Jeremiah and think he's pretty smart. If I remember right he predicted Spiller to the Bills with our first pick. Not many people thought that, certainly not me. He does not see Jackson and Rudolph as first round QBs. He has the Bills filling holes instead of picking either one. Personally I can understand passing on Rudolph but I can't see the Bills passing on Jackson if he falls to them. In fact I think he will go before we pick. But that's just me.

Yeah, Bill thought Johhny Football was going to be elite. He works for ESPN now. It's more about hot takes and media traction than analysis. You should try and make up your own mind rather than relying on somebody else.

He can absolutely read a defence and go through his progressions. Something you should do in watching the tape is look at him in the pocket, see how well he moves to avoid pressure by making sometimes small adjustments, look what happens when the pocket gets smaller or when a d-lineman starts to penetrate the line, he does not bail until the last possible moment all the while beforehand surveying the field. Above all look at his feet in the pocket - they are drop dead quiet. Just check out the tape again. It's right there in front of your eyes. This guy projects as a pocket passer. Of course the fact that he can run like Tyrod or Vick (or maybe better) if he has to is not bad either.

Jackson threw more and for more yards. More to the point, they played in very different offences. It also makes little sense to compare Mayfield's or Rudolph's stat sheet with Allen's or Jackson's. The Os are very different with the pro style being more difficult and the calibre of the supporting skill position players being totally different.

Well as I've indicated I like Mayfield too, but I would take Jackson ahead of him. Obviously Mayfield's greatest attribute is his accuracy. That's important of course, but he offers more than that. He has a lively arm, has good mechanics, is mobile and can make plays in or out of the pocket. He reacts well enuf when rushed and can execute under pressure. But some of the same questions surrounding Rudolphs ability to transition to the NFL in fairness have also yet to be answered by Mayfield. It's easier to play well when your receivers are "college" open, when your O is relatively simple your line and your ground game is very good. As I mentioned some analysts feel that Mayfield has yet to show that he goes through his progressions, that he is not a system baby running a one read college passing offence. Regarding Jackson as a dual threat QB, clearly we are not talking about using him as a running QB here. He needs to be first and foremost a passer who can execute from the pocket. But when a guy has his type of athletic ability you should definitely scheme to take advantage of it when it makes sense to do so. That's what Carolina does with Cam and it's what Houston did with D. Watson last year. It's an added dimension that would not only yield yardage and extend drives but also create difficulties for opposing DCs and open things up for other skill position players. Just makes you so much harder to defence. Imagine if Tyrod was good as a passer in addition to being a threat to run. What would our offence have then been the last couple of years. Possibly dominant IMO. If he bulks up a bit Jackson is a big, sturdy kid. Tyrod has been pretty durable. I believe Jackson would be too.

I like Mayfield too but honestly I think that again Jackson has shown more to suggest a successful transition to the NFL. He is also unequivocally the only real dual threat prospect at the position in this draft. There is nobody else that can do what he can do. Mayfield plays in a QB friendly spread college offence behind a good line and with excellent receivers and a very good ground game. How well will he do taking snaps under centre, how good is his footwork dropping back, how well will he see the field when he is not standing 5-7 yards behind the line, especially if he is in reality 5'11" etc...And there is a far more important question. I have noticed where some observers feel he does not go through his progressions properly but sticks doggedly to his pre snap read even when better options present themselves as the play develops, holds onto the ball too long as he waits for his first read to come free. That's not going to work at the next level. Jackson played in a pro style offence. He absolutely goes through his progressions, sees the field and generally makes good decisions. He also made do with a decidedly lackluster supporting cast, unlike Mayfield. Jackson is 6'3" and if he fills out his frame with another 15lbs he will be pushing 230. They are both good prospects but for my money Jackson has a lot more to offer.

I wouldn't say that Jackson has the highest ceiling of any QB in this draft because there is Josh Allen. IMO the sky is the limit for both of these prospects at the next level, but there is an important difference between the two. The difference is that it is Jackson, the so-called running QB, who has provided evidence that he is capable of executing from the pocket in a traditional pro offence, not Allen (they both play in Os with predominately pro concepts). Oh yeah, and Jackson did also manage to run for about 1,600 yards last year while he was at it, Allen 532. Shame on Lamar. We'd all like him so much better if he hadn't run like that lol. Bill Polian might even begin to think he was a QB! By draft day there is every possibility that he will be regarded as the #1 prospect in this QB class. The problem therefore is not Jackson. The problem is that we are likely picking too far back, way too far back, to nab him. I just pray that the Jets don't get him. Right now I think we are the team most likely to start pressuring the Patriots in the AFC East. If the Jets get Lamar Jackson, that could well change things IMO.