starrymessenger

Yeah, to me Allen and Jackson have the highest ceiling from amongst this year's QB class. They are both through the roof. All depends on your drafting philosophy. Do you hedge your bets or do you have the stones to swing for the fences knowing that you could be out of a job in two or three years (if you are GM). As between the two, Allen has the advantage of size and arm strength. I would be fine with either one at 12, but I don't see (absent a smokescreen) any interest in Lamar at OBD. I think they could take Allen though (except he will likely be off the board by then.

He is not a target IMO. If we were planning on installing a college system (or at best a customized hybrid combo of college and pro concepts) why get rid of Tyrod Taylor. If your franchise fancy is a dual threat QB not only is Taylor your best mentor but as we've seen you will get much better production from Tyrod too as he sets the table for Baker in a RPO offence. We know what happens when you try to force Tyrod into the classic pocket passer mould and that hardly seems to be the scheme suited to Mayfield either. But it suits Rosen or Darnold pretty well (and our current placeholder McCarron). Although it doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally, the Brown's overpaying for Taylor with the 65th pick suggests that they may indeed be swinging for the fences and taking Allen instead of Darnold. My sense of it is that Beane and the Bills want a traditional pocket passer, especially after seeing how they managed Cam in Carolina.

I dont myself feel that it's a motivational issue. He's a great kid and I love his moxie. I'm worried about his being a scheme baby and therefore maybe so limited at the end of the day that you come away with the feeling that he was just another really good college QB. To be really good at the next level I think he needs to be more like Drew. Drew Brees is not a world class athlete, he's not big and he doesn't have more arm strength than Baker, but no one is more at home in and around an NFL pocket. I just don't know that Mayfield can be more like that guy.

One issue I have with Baker is that although much of what we've seen from him is good that may be the best that we will ever see - in other words he may have maxed out. What you see is what you get. That's not bad but maybe we can do better. I'm not sure I see a lot of upside there, unlike some of the other QBs in this class. How exactly does he "develop"? Add to that the fact that his best looks may be scheme dependant and I'd think twice before drafting him at or near the top of the first. If I thought that he could learn to execute well from an NFL pocket, specifically patiently working longer developing routes (not just the quick hitters) while still seeing the passing lanes (including therefore going through true progressions rather than just coverage reads) I'd feel a lot better about him. Idk if he can do that.

Running the offence he did, behind that O-line, with that running game and receivers I don't see how his stats can be compared with this year's big school prospects who benefited from at least some NFL calibre players at the so called skill positions not to mention better, and in some cases much better, O-lines, and working offensive schemes that were not only more QB friendly but specifically to some extent customized to emphasize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. So I don't focus on the 56% completion % and kick him to the curb (as some do). No one has done Josh Allen any favours. His draft value is without doubt first round IMO and he should go early. The bust potential is there to be sure, as it is for Sam Darnold, but they are both very good prospects.

I would take Lamar ahead of Josh Allen or Baker. JMO.

Good friend of mine was once invited on a date by an incredibly hot girl we knew. He couldn't believe his luck! Thing is she took him to a Jews for Jesus convention. When he asked her why she did that she explained that he was the only Jew she knew. So I guess some Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah (tho my friend isn't one of them).

Well I agree that not all busts are created equal. I think I saw where Joe Marino predicted that both Darnold and Allen will bust, but I don't think he assigned probability factors. Given his conclusion maybe it really doesn't really matter. No doubt if Allen realizes his potential whoever picks him is going to look really smart. If he busts the more you sacrifice to get him the dumber you will seem to be. I like Allen but I would not push all my chips on that square. I'd move up for Darnold even if Rosen is my preferred pick.

A bust is a bust and a bust is rock bottom however you want to slice it. When all is said and done I think that Allen is a riskier pick than Sam Darnold, though they could both bust. Each has a very high ceilings but again, because of Allen's greater downside risk profile he is less likely than Darnold to achieve it IMO.

Point well taken. It's not flag football in shorts but it's not full throttle either. But frankly my impression is that Allen would have looked a lot better in a big time college program like the ones he so desperately tried to gain admission to even if the competition would also have been at a higher level. He was better in 2016 than he was in 2017 before losing 4 skill position players to the NFL. He did not execute a QB friendly offence either and I'd have to think that with a tailored scheme, a ground game and blue chip receiving talent surrounding him (think Mayfield, Rudolph and others from amongst this year's class) his college stats would have been much improved. No one did him any favours. If people insist on comparing him to those QBs my response is to say that he's then not really a 56% completion percentage guy (even if that's his actual number). Decision making and pocket presence are open questions but the porousness of his O-line was not. He was often having to execute a jail break and one would reasonably expect that had a lot to do with his skittishness.

Good read but I don't think Lamar should be limited to a tailored RPO scheme based on college principles. I'm with those who believe NFL defensive coordinators can make adjustments for that. QB run totals might be up but it's still a passing league. Rushing, and the threat to run, will always be a part of Lamar's game (tho he won't run in the pros like he did in college and survive) but that's not the part that needs work. He needs to develop as a pocket passer. The good news is that he has given evaluators good reason for thinking he can do that, for being a guy who looks to pass, not run, first.

The point is he also looked like a man amongst boys when he came out (the second time) in the senior bowl game where he was surrounded by better talent on both sides of the ball (and not just one one side, like the other side to be more specific, the couple of times he squared off against power 5 competition in 2017). Its pretty obvious that he's a risky pick, too risky for me as a Bills fan, but if he's drafted by the right team he's a good pick and every bit a first round talent. I hope he gets the help he needs to develop and I wish him the best. Odds are against him perhaps but if he pans out he will be fun to watch (but not play against).

Miller's really good but it's worth mentioning that he was much better with Ferguson than with PL (who went in the first).

I'm with those who say (guess) that Darnold will be the first player off the board.

If he can or can learn to execute from the pocket he could be the next Drew Brees. I don't know if he can do that TBH. To a team that doubts that he can he should be graded mid-first not top 10 IMO. If you think he can develop as a pocket passer then he's in the discussion for top 5 value wise for sure. Thing is experience indicates that there is only one Drew Brees. He is a tough kid but not the athlete Wilson is either.

Inconsistent mechanics and therefore inconsistent accuracy, occasional head scratching decisions, but when he flashes he flashes really good - sort of a poor man's Josh Allen you might say. He's good enuf to get drafted and eventually get his chance IMO. I certainly would not be stunned if he turned into something.

He's pretty interesting. Not a second rounder IMO but not a fifth/UDFA either. He is a third or early fourth round guy IMO. Gunslinger with a big arm, good mobility and good field vision. There are some things to like there.

Josh Allen is an unusual and fascinating case. I don't put too much emphasis on the conference he comes from, level of competition etc... When he is on he looks like a man amongst boys - regardless of the surrounding talent, be it good or bad. It's absolutely imperative that he go to the right team where he won't be press ganged into early service, where he can sit and learn behind a legit veteran starter and can benefit from the teachings of a good QB coach. Comparing him to a guy like EJ is a superficial, rudimentary and inaccurate analysis. He is 10x the prospect EJ was and a legitimate 1st round guy. A risky pick to be sure and if he winds up having to start behind a team like last year's Browns he will likely bust. This year's QB class is exceptional IMO. Now is the time to get one.

For Lamar to max out in terms of his very high ceiling, he needs to develop as a pocket passer and not be limited to a customized RPO. I don't know if he can get there but there is ample evidence to suggest that he is capable of improving on both the physical (purely mechanical in his case) as well as the mental requirements. So while nothing is guaranteed to me he is a really great prospect. Imagine if Tyrod was really good at throwing the football. Think QB would still be at top of our shopping list? Say "no". I see where some posters question the ability of young QBs to get better by improving their mechanics. That of course is total nonsense - "muscle memory" etc...lol. If that were the case you would have to discard some of this year's best prospects (excluding only Rosen and maybe Mayfield). You would also have to dump the great Aaron Rodgers because when his mechanics deteriorate his performance goes south - like that stretch of four or five games a couple years back that just about gutted the Packers season until he went back to work with his QB coach. I'm pretty sure Lamar is not the guy Beane has at the top of his board. My guess is he likes Darnold and Rosen a lot more (with some justification IMO). But if he can't get what he wants, Lamar Jackson could be what he needs.

I don't feel like I've seen enuf of him to come to any firm conclusions but I think the lack of sufficient velocity on some of Peterman's throws, including the playoff game ending pick, is the product of poor footwork through his drop, frontal alignment/stance in relation to the target, planting and pushing more off his front foot instead of properly transferring his weight, in other words sloppy mechanics. Add to that poor timing due to a lack of work with his receivers and the big step up in gamespeed and you wind up with a recipe for disaster, especially when the play call is a throw that is risky to begin with. I've seen tape of Josh Allen, maybe the strongest arm in the game at any level, get picked on out patterns for exactly the same reasons (when his mechanics are poor). With better lower body mechanics I'm pretty sure that the velocity of Peterman's throws would improve, and throwing mechanics is certainly something you can work on. Would it improve enuf for him to make the deep out? Like I said, I haven't seen enuf so idk. Not yet. Peterman is not Josh Rosen. He is actually very sloppy and unrefined as a passer. The deal is, can he improve? I guess we will find out.

Without top shelf NFL arm strength (which Nathan does not possess) such terrible lower body mechanics/full frontal alignment with the target will not get it done in terms of getting the ball there on time. That, and likely a (related) problem with the timing on his drop relative to the route Tompson is running (the receiver should not just be standing there waiting for bad things to happen), is the bigger villain than lack of arm strength as such on this particular play. He probably got away with that in college. Not happening in the pros, especially versus a very high end DB. Adapting to NFL game speed sometimes comes at a cost. Hopefully it's an investment rather than a sunk cost. If you can't get your footwork and timing down you don't even dream of trying that throw.

Next Marvin Harrison. Maybe. Landing the next Peyton (Rosen) would help.

Actually I think Rosen works the pocket pretty well, though maybe that's debatable. I wasn't talking about that. My point was that he is capable of operating outside the pocket (tho not like Lamar of course). He's not a big dumb statue like Flacco.

Well that's interesting because I thought Jewishness was only transmitted on the distaff side. So maybe he's really an agnostic gentile? I'm not an expert tho, but if that makes McCoach warm up to him a little more I'm all for it.

What I was trying to say was that as in government religious affiliation should be irrelevant as far as football is concerned (at least that's my opinion, as well as my understanding of the Constitution). So I think we are on the same page there. Sorry if that was not clear. I gather that Rosen is (at least at this stage in his life) agnostic and not an atheist. Be that as it may, a Jewish atheist would be a Jew who does not believe in God but who nevertheless otherwise identifies with and is in part a product of Jewish culture. Obviously I don't know the guy but my understanding is that Rosen was raised as a Jew and continues to identify with the community he grew up in, even though he is not religious.