birdog1960

seriously? you look at this conflict and you see dems and not teabaggers acting machiavellian?

given the scenario you decsribed, your heirs would.

no one is stripping it from the middle class. but at least you're honest in your reasons for being against it: you believe that if someone else is going to get more, then you're gonna get less. i don't believe it's an either/or. we overutilize with no real benefit and sometimes with harm. stopping or slowing that helps everyone. and there are already signs that it's happening. there's no provision currently to remove a private pay option. i don't see why what you describe would necessarily be legislated out. but there are very few people that could afford what you describe. and perhaps, before they are entitled to do that, the difference between what they paid into medicare vs what was paid out shpould be calculated and settled. on avg there's a lot more paid out than collected so the odds are that the described pt will be owing.

"these guys may threaten to take their mother hostage but they will never hurt their mother"http://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-speaks-against-dcs-extreme-120307802.html we can only hoe this is true. don't believe the chorus here. there's no consensus here or anywhere on the points you make. eventually, i believe it will save money but if and only if, we can stop the death panel bs talk.. and what you're proposing (limiting end of life heroic care) will take real political bravery, something in very short supply in dc right now. initially, it's more likely to allow an accurate accounting of real costs as cost shifting is slowly eliminated.

drudge must be confident his readers only look at headlines when his lead link is this: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_OVERHAUL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-10-02-19-40-17. this is exactly what the shutdown's about. there's a huge demand for these options and no one else has proposed any other viable solutions. once it starts, it's not going away. yup, there are logistical problems but many, many people want and need this. and most of the 30 million that still won't be covered are in states refusing medicaid expansion. even that may change.

so who is the south and who the north this time around?

not nearly as divided as you perceive: http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/10/02/228524707/gop-establishment-grapples-with-a-tea-party-that-wont-budge the tea party is a small, loud minority likely at it's apex for popularity. there just aren't many more followers to reach and hopefully some current followers are smarter than they appear.

it's not only about the elections. hell, there's almost zero chance that a repub wins prez in 2016. it's about shameless self promotion using the hero's of the greatest generation as props. it's about undermining the legislative process. it about this http://finance.yahoo...-200000323.html. american national politics have had little class and decorum for quite a while. the few proponents and practitioners have been run off or silenced. this may well be the death knell to few remaining. is dc tom really on hiatus? the people have already spoken; over 3:2 electoral votes in the prez election during which the aca was a major issue. just that the losers won't accept the startling results. that won't change til the tea party becomes irrelevant.

have you considered that the repug devious plan might be to fund nearly everything 9with the probable exception of dept of education and a few other "liberal" depts) leaving the aca unfunded? yeah, we've considered it...and find it rather likely. not gonna happen. house now has the vote to end shutdown.. not gonna play well with voters: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/02/clean-funding-bill_n_4031784.html the pinnacle of hypocrisy. right on sister bachmann: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/02/world-war-ii-memorial-shutdown_n_4030768.html?ref=topbar and this is my favorite, propaganda in action. it really does work, sad to say: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/27/obamacare-affordable-care-act_n_4002225.html

you all act like all universities are the same. mit is nothing like wvu. liberty is in few ways similar to brandeis...and so on. but go ahead, continue to base your conclusions on one university. supposedly because they thought it would be settled soon. down over 100 this am. wow. what do you base this on? i posted a picture of the scientists intimately involved in the manhattan project, recently. all they did was save the world. they were academics. great thinkers. many of them pacifists that realized the necessity of their efforts. and similar great minds are out there and being developed and fostered in our universities. and, yup, some of them work on "useless" things like the humanities and arts.

sorta like kicking the ball in the woods when you can't win the game...and, yes, theprecedent set by caving in this instance is very dangerous. every time one chamber is held by the minority party, they will be able to rescind something they don't like by threatening sa shutdown. for this reason alone, the issue is nonnegotiable. ya think cruz and his merry men have even considered this?

no, that's because they correctly believe that many of the "answers" are incorrect or incomplete. but if there were a substance that advanced real innovation and understanding, there'd be a long line for it. perhaps someone will synthesize or isolate it in a lab some day...

actually, the best academics that i've known have always subscribed to the idea that everything should be questioned and is open to debate.

knowledge? we don't need no stinkin knowledge...we've had all we needed for centuries.

just one stat: 55% of people with advanced degrees voted obama. 44% romney. now american anti education folks might see those voters as low information but the rest of the world doesn't. and how bout this republican special interest? banks are being lent money virtually interest free. students are paying 5% or more for government "subsidized loans".

did you look at the site at 7am? if not, then shut up. i did. first place i went before checking my fantasy score (graham and brees won it big for me). nothing there confirming shutdown. went to cnbc and then fox, both had it in headlines.

at 7am there was no announcement of shutdown. fox which amazingly seems liberal in comparison, had one. and a nice fact check piuece that dismantled some of cruz' claims.

so if it's a special interest group that you like , it's ok. don't have time now but check out the demographics on education for the different groups. you might be surprised.

look at the demographics from the last prez election. that's without breaking it down further into the tea party. it won't take much effort to prove how homogeneous the tea party is compared to the general population. and they vote for what's best for them just like most other groups. it's not difficult to see that they perceive the ACA as bad for them. others see it as good for themselves. that's special interest by definition.

there's the type of argument i've come to expect. kinda like kicking the ball into the woods.

i would argue that most of the tea party is comprised of special interest (a very specific demographic) and low information voters. who are you referring to?

sorry, no one's buying it. heard it described aptly as not able to win in the game so kick the ball in the woods. a lot of people agree.

sure, a gov't shutdown is a good thing . drudge must not think so since there's no mention of it actually happening on his site this am. what a scumbag shill he is. if this goes on for long and we see repercussions like a significant stock market drop, y'all will be singing a different tune about it's importance. and drudge will be forced to post it. and republicans will pay with voters. but keep pretending it's agood thing.

the elderly? not so much except for the few that don't qualify for medicare. the 30 million or so that will now be insured and weren't before? yeah, without the aca they mostly wouldn't be seeing doctors except in an emergency. per insured person, utilization of healthcare resources is starting to decrease so this may well be reflected in decreased insurance costs, especially since insurance industry profit margins are now capped. why don't we see what actually happens once the program is up and running before declaring it a failure?

plenty of lawyers on this site...class action lawsuit? i would think the physical and mental anguish is worth more than 10 bucks a head. get everyone checked for hepatitis a and e coli and you've got a bonanza. at least a few of the women in flip flops will have an e coli urinary tract infection, game related or not. could bring a $h#tload of money. just kidding.... but they really should get proactive on this one. free tickets to a preseason game next year at least for affected fans.