birdog1960

the argument is based on appeal to authority. it's not fallacious if attributed to a recognized authority in the area, which drucker clearly is. it's not practically possible to test his theory in the real world without a law such as proposed in switzerland passing. the very persistence of his idea in serious discussion in prominent publications on the subject supports it's relevance and validity as a serious concept.

he's talking about both. the avg worker gets wages (and rarely much else), the ceo's get extras. so what? it's not particularly difficult or impressive to be opaque. you understand the argument. you disagree. then argue back. the business week synopsis is pretty straightforward. are you sayoing that you understand the concepts better than the author and editors there?

well that was difficult. search peter drucker wage ratio and this looked like a source among many of the earliy ones that ya'll might respect http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-09-12/put-a-cap-on-ceo-paybusinessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice

aw geez, you've obviously won this argument. too powerful. i give up.

it's 20,30 and 50 TIMES not percent. ratios in that general range have been discussed as counterproductive by folks like peter drucker as has been discussed here before. and appropriate to this thread, the swiss recently had a referendum on this very issue with the ratio proposed being 40x's. this is not a novel concept to anyone but you all and it garnered a goodly number aof votes, even in switzerland and therefore probably even in davos.

agreed. It's shiet. Nostalgic for a couple yrs ago with Dylan, Mumford and Avetts. Was also looking for Tim O,Brien and Darrell Scott to. Win Americana best songas independent artists. Nope. Steve Martin and Edie brickell...I,m shocked!

hard work and risk taking might reasonably result in 20, 30 or even 50 times the average wage in extraordinary and rare circumstances. its hard to justify it in 1/1000 instances and at ratios much larger and in very concentrated demographic groups. watching the grammy's and it's really no mystery why "royals" is so popular right now. it speaks to the 999. risk taking indeed...

not surprisingly, i fully agree with the pope's comments presented at davos. quite surprisingly, it appears matt drudge might even sympathize with them http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/economy-budget/196399-drudge-banners-pope-bumming-out-davos

yet, here america, we have plenty of middle class foks that still support the idea of trickle down economics and yawn when a decision like "citizen's united" occurs.

agreed. i'm not a big fan of the results obtained through the masters of the universe efforts.

the data came from the linked oxfam paper which in turn cites credit suisse, (reference 4). perhaps you need to call them and complain. there's probably a credit suisse office near davos. you could just stop by.

great graph cept i'm pretty certain i'm further along in time - consequence of being old. did you notice the y axis isn't labelled? i hope the new coordinator doesn't draw graphs like that... . jim schwartz....i wonder who seattle would have hired.

davos http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-pope-francis-20140122,0,3908066.story#axzz2rLA7U6Z9. wonder if he'll be invited back.

shouldn't that make wade a bit skeptical?...having to sue to get paid and all? never read how that ended. i'm guessing it was settled and that's why it wasn't news.

lighten up francis. how would i know whether you look more closely resemble armie hammer or quasimoto? but if i'm to read anything into your response....yes, i know several people that had elective surgery via medical tourism. also, a family member had a back mri in europe while on vacation they spent significantly less than they would have here and they were going to have them done regardless of cost, eventually. therefore, they saved money. what's so difficult?

you truly are dim aren't you. in your case, lets say you're going to get hair replacement and liposuction. you can gewt them both for 2k in thailand or for 10k in des moines. you went to thailand, saved 8 k but unfortunately you're still homely.

i seem to remember that phillips sued wilson over money owed after his firing, right? i'm guessing he wouldn't be too open to coming back to work for him. i think he can be marked off the list.

do you never tire of the black/white dualist thought? i sure do. a system that calculates values for procedures in terms such as cost per years of life and then has the national discussion on whether that cost is appropriate is a far cry from what you describe. who are the people proposing a "just say no" approach to allocation of health dollars? names please.. on the other hand i feel confident that we can put you down in the column that if you've paid into medicare fully, you should be able to "recoup" unlimited multiples of your premium payments for any procedure at any cost. even the most ardent repugnant con pols know that course is unsustainable even for a few short years but are rarely willing to admit it. returning to the hip replacement (cuz you all just can't seem to grasp any part of the point - perhaps being just a tad less pedantic and literal would help), 750,000 americans per year isn't "never ever" (if you're stuck on spain, please refer to the above suggestions). take a look at this site http://www.allmedica...ip-replacement/ and then tell me that most of these people are looking at experimental treatments. hell, i personally know more than few folks that have done this, had good outcomes and saved enough cash to go on a couple nice real vacations later.

someone with skills unattractive enough to ensure that a quality organization like the browns doesn't look more appealing to him in a year or two. doesn't niagara u have a football club and some coaches?

it's not a lie. depending on which american hospital it's done at, charges for a total hip can range from 15K to 100K and that's what you'd be billed with no insurance. the numbers you linked (without any legend for the acronyms btw) were for payments to the physicians only. you left off the implant itself which can cost more than 10K alone and all the other costs included in the drg payment (and isn't it nice how in this regard the hospitals and surgeons primary concern is not the pt but their own pockets- ah, the wonders of the free market) http://www.npr.org/b...eon-doesnt-know. the 15-100k figure for for total hip comes from a fairly recent JAMA article that looked at the "transparency" of pricing in hospitals. you can look that one up for yourself. within the same article, 10-25K is the number given for payments from medicare to the hospital for the procedure. at the higher number, one could still live in spain for a year or 2, learn the language and run the bulls with the savings.

actually, even the way tom apparently envisions it and in places like england and canada, it's not truly single payor or socialism. there are still free markets there for health care ouytside the national systems. there are also independent insurance products (ie multiple payors). your definition is closer to what i believe most policy wonks intend when speaking of "single payor". i would however, add to your description: 1 "predominant" insurance provider (generally the govt) to comply with the actuality noted above.

or you could simplify and conclude that the us system is far too expensive. you're a ball of laughs. did you even glance at the aussie email. i'll bet you sided with the rude mechanical neighbor. didn't you? huh?

it's called concierge medicine and there are a few such clinics. none that i'm aware of in ortho: it's too expensive for all but the less than 1%. they'd need to charge even more than they are to the private insurers (eg $40k for a hip replacement). btw, that cost is not that far out of line with medicare payments when you factor in what hospitals are paid for theier rooms while the patient is there for the procedure and after care..

"this is why we can't have nice things" (hip replacement).... http://www.quickmeme.com/p/3vrw3r. disregard the first bit unless you appreciate clever aussie humor.

who said anything about american medical tourists seeking experimental treatments? from what i've witnessed most go for conventional treatments especially surgeries at much lower cost than even their copay is here. if you search medical tourism sites, it's all about the price. canadians may well go to avoid waits for elective procedures. we don't know from the article since the source noted was only speculating and appears to be biased http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Institute what a coincidence, the koch's are mentioned as donors....