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It could be both. He looked like he was trying to get his hands down which would have made the knees illegal. Then it looked like those knees knocked him silly.

it is really strange to me. there are so many different ways the Bills could go. ill have my popcorn ready though!

I get liking a guy but jeez man you are really laying the man crush on thick with Mahomes and Tru. After the draft I really would like to see some projections for these guys based on their situations by you.

Agree with all of this but want to add: I think the biggest difficulty in evaluating college to pros and specifically with QBs is the mental make up. You are giving someone millions of dollars. Does that sap their motivation (Russell), lead to poor decision making off the field (Manziel), change their personality, will they be able to lead grown men, etc... Much like golf it is the 6 inches between their ears that makes a lot of the difference. It is next to impossible to predict and a big part (imo) of what makes projecting QBs so difficult. Another aspect is the QB position only has a few guys on each team so teams are taking a shot once every couple of years or so. Therefore failures stand out much more. Torell Troup was a bust but in the same draft the Bills got Kyle Williams. James Hardy was a bust but that draft gave us Stevie Johnson. The Redskins traded a ransom for RG3 and start Cousins from the same draft instead. I'm not a grab one every year person, the value has to match but I think teams should stop worrying about hurting their QBs feelings by taking competition. It is the hardest position to play and that to me makes it the hardest position to scout. I'm not convinced that Aaron Rodgers becomes who he is today if he doesn't sit for a few years and get developed by GB. Same with Brady. On the flip side look at Alex Smith. He didn't get quality development until Harbaugh and then took off. Long story short: there is so much more than just play that goes into evaluating and projecting a guy.

Not that hard really. Think about how much discussion that generated. It is also possible he was doing a favor for Peppers agent by bumping the guy up and generating discussion around him for a few weeks.

I will be watching CB4 in tribute to him. If you are a Chris Rock fan it is a must see. Great send up of NWA and gangster rap. Rip Charlie - get to play another bball game with Prince now.

I came into the thread to post this myself. A fantastic Tequila at a very reasonable price imo.

What are your guys thought on Dede Westbrook? As much as I want that info (believe me it is a lot) wouldn't it be counter productive to the team to have that info floating out there? Maybe PM those interested (read me ) instead of putting it out publicly?

Just name 1.

Nobody. Nobody believes that. All of us in the "cot" (has there ever been a dumber term for fans - the guy who invented it is on an involuntary vacation...) have stated repeatedly we believe him to be about the 20th best QB. Jfh is probably the biggest homer on the board (never change buddy love you for it) and he is supportive of the idea of drafting a QB Transplant is a TT supporter and you just quotes a post where he says 16-21. I'm one of the biggest TT guys (wait and see on him) and I have him pegged about 20 and have also said I would be okay with a QB in the draft. The problem is the anti-TT people can't accept that others haven't written him off yet. You guys have made up your mind that he sucks. We haven't. We also haven't said he is a top 10 qb. I'm not even sure I've seen someone say he is top 15. However being the 20th best QB in the league says he should probably be a starter somewhere. He also has only PLAYED 2 seasons. So some of us are hoping he will progress as a qb, some of us aren't sure if he will but want to see, some of us think there are bigger holes on the roster, etc... 2 great posts on both sides of the fence. Thanks for your contributions guys. Some stuff for both sides to think about here. Had to wait until I was on a desktop to give you guys the credit you deserve.

Do you not think that? edit: and after the Kaep link I may be changing my tune on the possibility of it going down as you suppose. Which is why I am wondering if he had the player opt out last year as well.

Are you trotting out w/l as a qb stat again? I thought we talked about this... This is amazing though tell me who you want (2 years starting each both 29 games): Teddy passed for an average of 212 yards per game TT 209 Teddy rushed for 14 ypg TT 39 Therefore Teddy 226 ypg TT 248 edge TT Teddy passed for 7.24 ypa TT 7.46 edge TT Teddy passed for 28 TDs TT 37 edge TT Teddy rushed for 4 TDS TT 11 edge TT Teddy QB ratings 85.2 and 88.7 TT 99.4 and 89.6 edge TT Teddy ints 21 in 849 attempts TT 12 in 816 attempts edge TT Should I continue or did I make my point?

FC this is what I was trying to talk about. As discussed, your narrative is that TT sucks and the rest of the teams in the league think so too. If that is the case why would they risk financial penalty or loss of draft picks to talk contract details with him or his agent? I could certainly see your side if he was an impending FA but he was under contract (albeit an option). I would have to imagine the penalties would be more severe than they were in the Maclin or Revis situation since he wasn't an upcoming UFA. hmm the first with Kaep as an example would fit the idea of tampering while still under contract unlike the others listed. Did Kaep have the opt out option last year too?

I'm paying attention I have to disagree with your assertion that other teams discussed numbers with him. Maybe a "interested/not interested" but I can't see teams sticking out their necks and discussing actual numbers. Going by your idea that he sucks why would a team risk draft picks for TT by discussing contract details? If it is as general as interested/not interested perhaps TT liked the idea of continuing to grow on a team he is used to? In a community he knows (maybe even likes) with an OC that he knows? Maybe the teams didn't have the offensive talent the Bills do? Maybe he actually feels those things give him the best chance to be successful which he needs to be since he bet on himself? Their are a lot of other possibilities besides he sucks and nobody was going to pay him. He restructured and I'm happy about that. It freed up more money for the team, made it easier to move on, and gave TT a chance to cash in again. Speculating on the why is a pointless exercise but not nearly as pointless as pretending that their is only one reason and you know what it is. Seriously. I get if you don't like the guy. I don't get bashing or belittling others because they want to see someone and in turn the team do well. It does nothing but help the Bills if the light comes on for TT or whomever lines up behind center.

Your narrative: Tyrod sucks Everyone in the league knows Tyrod sucks Tyrod knows everyone in the league knows he sucks because his Agent broke the rules to find out what kind of contract he could get Teams tamper all the time even with players who aren't set to become UFA Tyrod came crawling back to the Bills for a pay cut because teams told him he wouldn't get any offers near what the Bills were giving him

I was also in favor of giving him a second season and for most of the year a 3rd. After the Raiders game I started to waffle, then after the 200 yards given to Leveon I started leaning away slightly. After the Miami game though I was all for letting him go. Not having 11 on the field AGAIN in a critical spot, letting a team in it at the end AGAIN, giving up 200 yards on the ground AGAIN. It appeared, that as another poster stated, Rex didn't really care. I ended up at the same place with Mario Williams. When you don't care enough to give maximum effort you can go. Others opined that Rex cared more about the title than being a football coach. I now agree with them. He was in love with being a celebrity. His teams lacked consistency because imo he lacked consistency in game prep. Some weeks you could tell he was invested and others he looked like he didn't give a sh*t. He took cronyism to a whole new level. It sucks that it didn't work, it sucks that he didn't put in the effort to make it work, it sucks that the Bills had to find a new coach (and system) 2 years later, but it doesn't suck that Rex won't be the HC next year.

I accidentally put this in the Rodgers thread but since this thread won't die I figured I'd move it here. It was posted in response to xcrushx saying TT fans talked out of both sides of their mouth... 70 pages really just boils down to this....

I have a feeling Weidman will protest and it will be moved to a NC. Replay is not allowed in NYS so they should not have used it to determine the knees were legal. Either way I'm sure we will see the rematch soon.

This is exactly where I am. In this draft class I think it is reasonable to see 2 or 3 guys sitting in the second round of the Watson, Trubisky, Mahomes, Kizer group. That is where I am thinking the qb will be selected if still there at 44. That said the Bills may determine they don't like any of these guys or not enough at 44. We can argue if those valuations are correct but at least they are out there doing the work.

I see you fc.... rex got his understudy time with the ravens (look a parallel you missed!). Then he was given 6 years to prove he didn't have it. you're analogy falls short. If you want to draw the lines TT needs to be given 6 years as the starting qb. Even worse for your post, Rex was given a second chance to be the guy with another team before he was written off. So I guess what your post is saying is TT gets 4 more years behind center!

I've seen multiple accounts that weidman told the doctors he couldn't continue before the knees were rules legal. once they were rules legal he wanted to continue. speculation is that he was trying to get a victory the easy way. He looked out of to me though and I have no problem with the decision.

Right now: Tyrod is right around the 20th best qb in the league imo. He is exciting while running with the ball but needs to improve as a passer. He does a great job taking care of the football but takes too many sacks when he could just throw the ball out and save a few yards. He throws a good deep ball but bails from pockets sometimes and misfires on some throws he should make. Their is good and bad with him as a player but the offense ran very well under him. The last 2 years the team has had an offense that scored a bunch of points was the best we've seen in many years. Going forward: I'm excited to see what he can be. I care more about the 29 starts than the previous years sitting on the bench in regards to his development. If the Bills drafted a qb that went for 47 tds and 12 ints after 2 years in the league we would all be ecstatic. The last time we saw him on the field he put on a show. Whatever you have to say about the Dolphins he showed he can do that to an NFL defense. He also put on a show on mnf. In a place vaunted as one of the toughest to play in, on primetime, against a great defense he again played excellent. That shows me he can do it. The question becomes can he do it consistently. I'd like to find out the answer to that question while he is in a Bills uniform. It's not talking out of both sides of my mouth you just think he has peaked and I don't. All of the back and forth in all of these threads boils down to that one difference. I could run a poll and tell you fire chan, Ryan l, you, jeffismagic, old-school, etc... all think that he is done developing and is what he is and won't improve in your opinions. jfh, bobonators, transplant, myself, "the cot" if you will, don't think he is at his ceiling. You guys have all made it clear you think he is at his ceiling and have made up your mind. We haven't made up ours yet. edit: holy crap I just realized this ended up in the Aaron Rodgers thread. This would fit better in the Tyrod highlight thread.

no worries Yolo! I just figured I'd explain the nuance of the post since some were trying to say I was comparing the 2 and further bash the "cot" unfortunately I know more about Rodgers than I care to with my wife being a bachelorette fanatic. his brother strikes me as kind of a douche and I'm not entirely convinced Rodgers wasn't using Munn as a beard (don't care) so maybe you're right, after his terrible year last year maybe he can improve 😉

I can answer that for you. No most here don't watch other teams. There are a lot of posters that don't even watch every Bills game. It drives me mad reading "analysis" from guys that I know only watched Sports center and regurgitate thoughts. Shoot once a thread goes past 1 page most don't even read the entire thing to see if their point has been discussed yet. I am the op of this thread and was surprised to see it bumped today. Aaron finally moving on from his beard I see. (I keed) For BBMBers and new guys this thread was started to poke fun at the anti TT crusaders. There favorite stat before this post was TT had never won a game when trailing by 4. This thread is a perfect example of how you can pluck a stat about most players to make them seem worse than they are. You can make it more than that if you'd like but it wasn't my intention. I thought it was a funny stat and one that showed just how skewed some stat presentations can be. Rodgers is amazing and one of the best if not the best in the game (Brady until he retires for me ). I need to type that so Crusher can get over himself . I'm pro TT and can recognize that he falls somewhere around the 20th best in the league. Hopefully he can improve and I think he can. So if you need to be an asshat and continue the "CoT" ridiculousness feel free but I recognize who he is make no mistake. I hope for better because I've seen flashes (Seattle, Miami #2), because he has only started 29 games, and because he qbs the Bills. Will he get there? Who knows? Not me. What the anti-TT people need to realize is not them either...

it blows my mind that none of you guys are comprehending what he is saying no matter how many times he says it. let me try. tyrod is not a hofer. IF (stay with me) he did what he did in 2015 over the course of his career he would it would be hof worthy. IF. Again you guys have built this wonderful strawman of cot but ignore that many of us that support tyrod do so because of any of the following. 1. he is our best option at the moment for NEXT season. 2. in some people's opinion none of the qbs in this year's draft are going to be the answer. 3. they believe tyrod isn't done improving. in this very thread FireChan talks about no substitute for game experience. 4. they want to see if the Miami and Seattle games can be built on and his consistency can be improved. 5. he plays for the bills so we root for him. I have yet to see a poster say he is definitively the answer. so let's put this asinine cot business to rest. the only hardliners people in these threads are anti TT people. take a page from gunner bill. spoke his piece, has proven to be knowledgeable, and let's it rest. we know where everyone stands at this point.