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The Bills play calling that day was utterly pathetic. Their game plan was terrible and I blame the lions share of the loss on that. On the final drive the Bills were moving the ball well until the OPI call. Would certainly have been nice for a makeup call there but it's hard to do when Zay tripped himself. Won't put the loss on the ref as I subscribe to the theory of it's your fault that your in a position where one call can cost you the game but I hated that OPI call. The Bills were moving the ball right down the field before that and it put them in a giant hole.

You realize that your analogy was terrible right? Anyway I have been thinking about this for a little bit. I would be interested to see people's list of who they think is playing better than Tyrod in 2017. Not in their career, not their reputation, not their draft status. Simply who do you think is playing better than Tyrod this year? Brady, Brees, Cousins, Wentz, Watson, Rodgers (pre-injury), Alex Smith, and Russel Wilson are fairly inarguable. I could see some arguments for other guys but it is a pretty short list imo. Interested to see others lists.

You realize that you have no idea what the dealer has down when you decide to hit or stay on 17 right?

The over under on you hating him would be set at a half of a game. The things you don't like about Taylor? Cam does. The things you like about Taylor? Cam doesn't do. He's less accurate than Tyrod, throws more picks, and appears to be very immature.

2 things this year boggle my mind this year. The Peterman hype - a 5th rounder that looked OK in the preseason is guaranteed to produce at least at a Tyrod level. You know the 5th rounder can come in and be one of the 20 best qbs in the league. Then the Reilly hype. I have never heard such clamoring for a PS guy before. I would wager most fans can't name anyone on the PS besides him. Great white hope at work with that one. I seriously can't believe the y put "he blows" in an ESPN article. Can you imagine Walter Kronkite reading the news "and a witness stated he blows" I really did appreciate the article though. I think it laid out both sides of the argument very well. Here's to a win tonight and continued team success!

Is there really anyone on this board who isn't entrenched? I thought it was a very good article save for the interviews of the people at Duff's that make Bills fans look like idiots.

To lay this stat to rest: Taylor's detractors have echoed this, noting that he rarely throws for more than 250 yards a game and that when the Bills fall behind by four points or more, his record is 3-16. (Most QBs have losing records in this scenario; Aaron Rodgers is 6-13 since 2015.) I know others have posted it but it perfectly sums up my feelings regarding the situation: "Dumping Tyrod Taylor because you think you can do better is like hitting a 17 in blackjack," Monson says. "You can do better than your hand, but you probably won't." Love watching this guy play, love rooting for him, love him as the qb of this team.

absolutely agree with everything you say here. I also attribute a lot of the patriots success to Brady taking below market deals to increase the talent level around him. If teams want to emulate their success it starts there imo

Do we ignore that the team was driving against Carolina and then the ridiculous OPI penalty killed their momentum and ultimately the drive? This was posted before the Bucs game but he came through there. Absolutely. I will even say their is really only 4 guys in Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees imo. The rest can be streaky, do some incredible things, do some terrible things, and don't separate from the pack. Look at Matt Ryan this year. 3 fumbles on snaps losing 2 this week? Last year on fire. Cam in 2015 on fire, since meh. Derek Carr last year on fire, this year struggling. Alex Smith plays Tyrod level until this year then gets hot.

Tyrod is playing better than Cam in 2017. Tyrod played better than Cam in 2016. Why would the Bills downgrade at QB? If people hate Tyrod I wonder what the board would look like when Cam goes for 154 1 td and 1int like he did this week. How about 211 and 0 tds/2ints like last week? 239 1td and 3 ints like 3 weeks ago? So for those keeping track at home that is 604 passing yards, 2 tds and 6 ints in his last 3 games. This is a 'franchise qb?" For comparison (i'll save you the work) Tyrod: 599 yards, 4tds, 1int. You would trade +5 yards over 3 games for -2 tds and +5 ints? I hope that isn't the process! In case you think I am just using a small sample. Since the start of 2016: Cam 5964 yards, 37 tds, 25 ints, 923 combined rush/pass attempts Tyrod 5121 yards, 32 tds, 8 ints, 533 combined rush/pass attempts So 400 more attempts: 840 more yards (2.1 yards per each attempt when Tyrod averages 9.6 ypa), 5 more tds (1 for every 40 attempts - Tyrod averages 1 every 16), and 17 more ints (1 every 36 attempts Tyrod averages 1 every 66 attempt). Cam has sucked since the start of last year. Super Bowl hangover is still going on almost 2 years later (I fully admit injury contributes this year).

3rd and 7th rounder

Standard: Making progressions at an average NFL starter level speed, little-to-no hesitancy in delivering a consistently accurate ball to receivers that are not necessarily wide open, and the ability to consistently win games when asked to throw for the average number of pass attempts per game (36 pass attempts in 2016). This was your standard and props for actually answering my question. Now to rebut: Russel Wilson - in 2015 he threw for 36+ attempts twice and went 0-2. Since 2015 when TT was named starter Russ is 8-5-1. Those were his 4th, 5th, and 6th years in the league. In his first 3 years he went 2-0. That is correct, in 48 games he threw for 36+ attempts twice and one was an ot game. In his first 4 seasons combined he went 2-2. Again I will repeat, TT's first 3 years are looking a lot like Wilson's first 3 years. Kirk Cousins - Since 2015 he has attempted 36+ passes 18 times. His record? 5-12-1. Might need to move him off of your list. Philip Rivers - I don't even want to waste my time with him. Suffice it to say no. The Chargers haven't won more than 9 games since 2009. Never mind I'll do the stats... 3-11 since the start of 2016. Deshaun Watson - promising start but your going to anoint a guy 6 starts in? Alex Smith? It took 6 years for the light to come on and even after it did TT has played as well as him. This is the one year Alex Smith has been ahead of TT. He's 5-4 over the last 2 seasons. Dak Prescott - 4-5 in games throwing more than 36 times including 1-3 this year. Might need to move him down. So now your list has 4 guys left. Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. I haven't looked at the numbers but I won't argue that they aren't the elite tier of qbs. Big Ben has a 5 int game this year though and Brees has 3 straight 7-9 seasons. Both of those guys struggle on the road as well. Your "standard" is unachievable save for the top 4 guys which is why I say people need to pay attention to the rest of the league. TT is playing very well. He outplayed Carr yesterday and I just realized even in your negativity and assuming you have TT at the bottom of your flawed list you still have him as your 21st best qb. I don't think anyone can put Eli, Mariota, or Andy Dalton above him and I would argue Cam and Jameis shouldn't be above him either.

You know you can disable the signature from the settings in tapatalk? Eball had a long run of using that signature Sent from my desk at work while I am avoiding everyone

I was going to type exactly that. Irvin is defeated walking away and gave a slight push as he went almost pouting. It's an ego shot to see a team do that after converting a 20+ yard play with how the game had gone. That sucks the wind right out of a team. I loved seeing that!

Now list me the qbs who do this in your mind please? I'm bored with make believe hoops that TT has to jump through. Tell me what qbs in the league reach your standard. Yup. Either you don't like him because your ignorant of what SHOULD be expected by watching other teams or because of the reasons he alluded to a few weeks back. Don't have to love him. Yet. Just can't keep hating him as he just goes out and plays solidly at the position week after week. Great Stats! Context matters when discussing Tyrod and what other qbs in the league do yet is ignored many times. Wilson and Tyrod have very similar starts to their careers minus the team success. Alex Smith and Tyrod have very similar numbers AFTER Smith turned into a productive qb (6th or 7th year). Before anyone argues go look at the numbers.

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It would be between that and the opener in 2016 against the Ravens for me if I had to choose.

Yeah I think Denver was the best and Cincy the worst. The Carolina game was a bad game all around on offense. The entire offensive game plan was terrible to me. Interestingly Cincy may have his number. He didn't play great against them in 2016 either. Lot of games left hopefully its a fun ride!

I think Tyrod just did in the Bucs game. Did you see: Roethlisberger throw 5 picks vs. the Jags? Andy Dalton in almost every game? Marcus Mariota vs. the Browns? Joe Flacco this year? Eli Manning the first 2 weeks? Derek Carr vs. the Broncos? Bad games happen to pretty much every qb. I don't mind wait and see but we've seen a lot of good from Tyrod so far this year. To your bolded I agree 100% I think doing all of these things consistently is the next step. When I was typing done I didn't mean he was a finished product just that he had or was accomplishing those things. I think they show he isn't at his ceiling. When we stop seeing improvement we can call him a finished product but I haven't seen that happen yet. If you view him as a player just starting for the 3rd season what he has done so far is pretty impressive imo. Hopefully he continues to grow and doesn't stagnate. I'm excited to watch the rest of the season and his development play out.

Yeah he is just an easy example of a fantastic qb not being able to do it by himself. I don't understand how through all of the coordinators and schemes they have had they continued to be terrible. I always have wondered how other guys would have fared in New England. Pairing any of Manning, Brees, or Rodgers and I would love to know the level of success they would be able to get. I know Brady wins the ring argument with Manning but I always thought he had the better teams and coach when he went to battle against Manning. Would love to see their level of successes with the roles flipped.

6 starts out of 35 means he does it 17% of the time. Almost 1 in every 5 times he is the starting qb he goes for 3 tds. I wouldn't say it is a career day when it happens instead I think it shows that Tyrod CAN achieve those numbers and if they are good enough for other guys to lead teams to the Super Bowl why wouldn't they be good enough for TT to do so? Which was my original point of wanting people to stop with this you can't win with him. This year is starting to show they can win because of him which is a nice development. I think this past Sunday Tyrod carried this team with a lot of clutch 3rd down conversions, a late td drive, and a couple of huge runs. I won't say this will be an every week thing but if he can continue down this path I see great things. Think of the knocks on him coming into this year: Can't throw to the middle - started doing it, can't win late - done, doesn't use the te - done, can't win when throwing more than 30 times - done, can't go through progressions - improvement, he has reached his ceiling - all of the above prove that as false imo. So now we are left with can be inaccurate at times and can also hold the ball too long/be indecisive. The other knocks are projections of team success that to me shouldn't be put on his shoulders. I know many disagree but I feel like we are watching a young qb grow and continue to grow. 3rd year as a starter and I see growth from last year. Interested to see the rest of the year and his continued development! I wish the Bills had given him the Wentz/Goff treatment and gotten him weapons to be successful with but hopefully the future brings that. Man I wanted to believe that bravado. I even gave him the benefit of the doubt going into year 2. He wasn't invested in the job at all and it was unbelievable the way he treated his job.

I know and it is why I wanted to put that caveat in at the end. After reading I thought man this guy is gonna think I hate his take when that isn't the case That post wasn't directed at you I just wanted to get that info out. The AFC qbs are what I was talking about in my post though. On the NFC side there have been a ton of teams and a ton of qbs. I see Tyrod perform at the same level as a host of qbs who have either taken their teams to the super bowl or deep in the playoffs.

Just want to throw this out there and see people's ideas on who and how many qbs in the league can do this. I don't think in the NFL any QB can take a bad team to a winning record. Win a couple of games here and there that they shouldn't? sure. Win in the NFL with a subpar team? None. Brees, Rivers, Eli, and a host of other qbs have had a losing season recently. Having a QB helps but it having a complete team that leads to success in this league. When was the last time the Bills had a competent offense and defense in the same year? I can't think of a single year during the drought where this was the case. Maybe Bledsoe's first year but he fell off a cliff at the end of that season. If the offense can get back to 2015/2016 levels and the defense maintains its 2014 pace we could see success this year. IF looms large in that sentence though.

I'm really sick of this narrative. We've been through it a million times but Colin Kaepernick, Joe Flacco, the corpse of Peyton Manning, and Russel Wilson have all been to and some even won super bowls in just the last 5 years. Eli Manning has 2 Super Bowls and people don't know if he is a HOFer. How in the world can anyone say he can't take a team to the super bowl definitively. IT IS A TEAM GAME. Getting hot at the right time is often the key to making and or winning a super bowl. The Brady/Manning/Roethlisberger trio have just jaded everyone. If you look at the NFC side going back to 2007 there have been 9 teams represented with only the Giants and Seahawks getting there multiple times. By the definition of not being good enough to take a team to the super bowl being the measuring stick, 23 teams should be looking into moving on from their QB. Here is the list of Super Bowl starting qbs in the league right now: Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan - that's a good list but it is only 5 of the names. Eli Manning, Russel Wilson, Joe Flacco, and Cam Newton have all taken teams to the super bowl recently. None of them are playing as good as Tyrod is this year although Wilson has heated up lately. In their Super Bowl years they played well but have also proven that they can play at a level lower than Tyrod. Why can't he elevate like these guys did? So please can we stop with the "can't take us to the Super Bowl" nonsense? The Bills as a franchise haven't even made the playoffs in 17 years. 15 years before TT got here. He shouldn't be responsible for solely pulling this team out of the doldrums, it needs to be on all sides of the ball. QB isn't end all be all even the mighty Brady needs a team around him. Drew Brees has won 7 games a year the last 3 years if even he, as great of a qb as he is, can't do it without a team around him why in the world would that be an expectation of Tyrod. I don't mean this post directed to you other than the Super Bowl narrative but it was as good a place as any to put this rant

I seriously can't roll my eyes hard enough right now I can't believe you think Mike and Mike has good insight.... Though I do agree with your main point. Keep politics out of sports reporting. PTI was my favorite show on ESPN. However I have to credit them with ESPN's demise. When they put those 2 on and did jot takes for a half hour to huge rating success, ESPN made all their programming that way. First Take is basically PTI, ATH is basically PTI, it is like what reality tv did to network channels.