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It is time for me to pay up on a bet made with an astute and knowledgeable poster who knows much more about the QB position than I do. I made a preseason bet that TT would outperform Carson Wentz. I thought his last 12 games of his rookie season were who he would be going forward. I'm here to eat my crow. Pre-injury he was likely the MVP of the entire league. Eagles did a great job (much like the Rams with Goff) in getting him talent at receiver to help him. Wentz took a huge leap forward this year and I was wrong. So Ryan L Billz where ever you are.... Wentslyvania baby! He pantsed Tyrod this year! So let this be the thread. Did you make a bet with a fellow poster that you now need to pay up on? I did win a bet this year as well on Cam so 1 for 2 ain't bad!

When making a play on the ball isn't contact allowed? The whole idea of a cb needing to get his head around before making contact and this isn't any different to me. He was clearly going for the ball and out-muscled the WR. Then he made a great play to clinch the game. Not much to be upset about to me at least.

This is one of those calls that we screamed about with KB. Can't have it both ways folks. If you have to look at every minute thing to see if it was a catch it should be ruled a catch (or int). This is one of those cases. It looked like a pick and maybe just maybe it moved slightly but I would rather calls go this way than the KB call.

So would you say you are concerned?

I disagree whole-heartedly and I'll do you one better. I knew after one half of the Chargers game that he has no shot in this league. What is ridiculous is saying he will be better than Tyrod. What in the world have you seen to say that? Is it because Tyrod is so bad in your opinion that anyone could be better? We've seen across the league that isn't true. Why do we need to wait another year to see what he has? What are the chances that he could be good? Seriously what percentage would you give him? I would rather draft 2 qbs next year than see Peterman under center again. I don't understand what people have seen from him to make them think he has a chance. All I see is well Peyton was bad as a rookie or Big Ben had 5 picks in a game. He is nowhere near the prospect as those guys nor does he have the resume to keep getting chances imo.

This is an excellent post. I'm all done with Dennison. To your bolded that is how I felt in the moment of the benching. The one thing I will say is there is no shame in being shut down by the Jags. Yesterday was their 8th time holding a team under 10 points. Andy Dalton, Big Ben, and Joe Flacco were among the qbs and a host of bad offenses. The Bills have a bad offense and not surprisingly were shut down. Yesterday I had a party and a few of my friends started calling run or pass before the ball was hiked. They aren't Bills fans and it was the first game they had watched of them all year. That was eye opening for just how predictable the offense was. There is or should be some shame in that. There is zero innovation on the offensive side of the ball. I'm really nervous what Dennison will do with/to a rookie qb.

Absolutely. It doesn't have to be a Tyrod vs. Nate thing. They can both be bad. For some reason Nate gets a ton of excuses for his play. He has 2 tds to 6 ints and 2 fumbles. Don't give me the peyton manning nonsense. 1 was the #1 overall pick and one was a 5th rounder. Nate is bad. Like shouldn't be on an NFL roster. The qb of the future is not on the roster right now. If Tyrod stays it will be as a placeholder until the new guy is ready. Nate Peterman will never on purpose (meaning unless injury) start another game for the Bills and I would be really surprised to see him on the team next year. He has shown one thing this season and it is that he can't play in this league. Doesn't make him a bad guy just can't cut it.

Yup holidays were killer but I'm holding at 220 which is nice. Bills in the playoffs is bad for my diet as it means booze and tailgate food. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make lol The green one is definitely my favorite! BOlthouse farms also has some good ones.

I would prefer you address number 5 however.... 1. If not for a lot the Bills wouldn't be in the playoffs. There were a lot of plays made by all BILLS players that led to them being in the playoffs. Crediting Andy Freaking Dalton is nice since that game gave the team the last nudge but that pass only mattered because of what the Bills and Tyrod did. If the Bills didn't beat the Dolphins they wouldn't have been in. If they didn't win the games they did they wouldn't be in. Well I won't argue you here There is much room for improvement as a passer. He is however a serviceable qb until we find that top 5 guy. I would hate to see the team move on without a plan in place. We've seen that happen with Andy Levitre, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and others. The Bills can try to get better in the off season without making themselves worse. However all of that is for the off season. Right now I just want to enjoy that we still get to talk about what the Bills could do THIS sunday.

What about the last 2 years where it was 13 and 16?

1. Yeah I don't see any appreciation on this board for him doing it. I see on the front page a charity thread for 2 players from a different team, threads about trading him, drafting his replacement, this backhanded thread, etc... 2. Please show me these posters. Transplant uses stats and facts and people refute him with "the eye test", JfH has given up his kool aid card. The CoT is a group of us who don't think he is the worst player in the NFL. Anyone who dares to defend him in any way is in the "CoT." I'll defend the hell out of him. He broke a streak that hung over all of our heads. If the Ravens game ended first would we be giving Andy freaking Dalton the credit we are? The day we made the playoffs was one of my favorite sports days in many years and I have to come to my favorite site on the internet and get my cheerios pissed in. 3. I won't argue that and even I wasn't that optimistic. This team has a lot of holes. Getting to the playoffs should be a testament to all of the players on the team. Not just Tyrod not everyone but Tyrod. The whole team deserves credit for this. I disagreed with many McDermott decisions, Beane decisions, and Dennison decisions among others. I give them all credit though for being part of this. 4. TT had his worst games this year but on a whole he improved many of the things he was knocked for before the season. He threw to tes. He threw to the middle of the field. 5. He wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he is in a handful of guys that have good and bad games. Tyrod's Cincy performance which we all agree was probably his worst was the 79th worst qb game by qbr this year. I won't try to argue the 56 and 65 yard passing outputs they were terrible what I will say is context matters and there are many qbs each week who completely stink up the joint. He is in the handful of guys that will have great weeks and terrible weeks. Look at Derek Carr week 3 and 16, Andy Dalton week 1 and 15, Jameis Winston week 5 and 8, Philip Rivers week 3, Alex Smith week 3, Dak week 11, Cam week 3 and 16, and Kirk Cousins week 13 and 17. All of those games were in the bottom 50 of qb performances this season. That's a lot of guys who everyone thinks are better than Tyrod and they had worse (sometimes multiple) games than Tyrod's worst game. People need to watch other teams to truly see the state of NFL qbing. Too many people watch Brady and think everyone is doing that. My apologies. Your wife is a very wise woman! I amend it to I haven't seen anyone on this board change their opinion of him

This is the **** right here that is infuriating. Tyrod is somewhere around the 20th best qb in the world. Let that sink in. There are approximately 10-20 guys that are better than him in existence on the planet earth. Taylor's value hasn't risen at all. Nobody that hated him before this has come around on him. Even in your post where you are trying to almost give him credit you can't do it without giving credit to Dalton and the Dolphins. The Bills and Tyrod beat Jay Cutler just 2 weeks ago. Is it really far fetched that they would have done it again? Andy Dalton gets 300k from Bills fans for one throw. How much money went to Tyrod's charity this week for being the qb the entire season save one Peterman start. I think what I have always thought. He is a serviceable NFL QB. You can win with him as evidenced by his starting record with the Bills. Could the Bills improve? Sure. This is smacking though of cutting Fitz just because anyone has to be better right? Want to draft a guy and have him and Tyrod compete? I'm all for it. This nonsense about him being figured out has to stop. He has brought our team to the playoffs. Something no other qb has done in almost 18 years. Can we give the guy some freaking credit for once?

I am at a breaking point. We should all be celebrating this week. Instead it is the same absolute nonsense. Andy Dalton gets 170k to his charity for one pass. Tyrod leads the team to a 9-6 record and gets no credit. Tyrod gets benched and responds by leading the team to a 4-2 record and the playoffs for the first time in forever. Either QB is end all be all and Tyrod should get credit for leading the Bills to the playoffs OR QB isn't as important as some claim it to be and the Bills made the playoffs in spite of him. You can't hold both opinions unless apparently it involves Tyrod. We are in the freaking playoffs and people want to whine about our qb still? How about thanks for getting us to the playoffs? How about thanks for ending the drought? Nope the same inane duh Tyrod is terrible duh. We know what Tyrod is and right now that is the QB of the Playoff Buffalo Bills. After the playoffs end we can resume hearing about how xrushx, shady, twoandfourteen and others KNOW that Tyrod is the antichrist. While the playoffs are on and the Bills are alive ENJOY IT FOR PETES SAKE To all of you that said Tyrod could never do it, to those that said the Bills would go 4-12, to those of you who said he is a backup qb or rb at best in this league, to those of you that said Nate freaking Peterman starting was still a good decision even after the results, to those of you who wouldn't be optimistic after week 15 or even week 16 because Tyrod was sure to lose to the Dolphins, to those of you who can't enjoy this without complaining about Tyrod I've got 2 words for you. SUCK IT. The Bills are in the playoffs and Tyrod got them there. I dealt with the stupid CoT nonsense all offseason and all year and I feel vindicated. "The CoT" kept saying with a competent defense the Bills could be a playoff team with Tyrod at the helm. In the words of one of my favorite posters around here: Tyrod just pantsed all you haters! Go Bills! !@#$ Doug Marrone and !@#$ the Jags! and if you want to B word about Tyrod instead of the Bills being in the playoffs then !@#$ you too!!! Let's go!!!!!!!

btw 3 pages in. Is nobody going to comment that the link is broken and redirects to the op's post Or did everyone just skip the link

I agree and with the Giants holding the #2 pick he could do exactly that. I'm wishy-washy on kids going back to school when they have a 2nd or 3rd round grade. This is different, he will be picked in the top 5 and likely top 2. There isn't much improvement to be done on his stock so imo he should come out. He will be one of the top 2 picks. Why not develop AND get paid? There is way more risk than benefit imo for him to return. The college game is so different from the pros I think he might develop better under a pro teams watch, add in a lost year of earnings for an already too short career, and a year with a "good franchise" holding the 2 pick and the stars have aligned for him. I don't personally care for his game and don't see what others do but I'm also not a professional scout. Big market, big money, get to sit behind Eli for a year, get paid to improve your skills. Perfect scenario for him and he'd be dumb imo to return.

I'm pumped. Problem is everyone is looking at the off-season already. Nobody is used to being alive week 17 so nobody knows how to act lol. I'd love to be talking about how excited I am but lately there are too many cheerio pissers here to do so. Luckily non-bills fan friends (especially giants fans) are pumped too so I've had a lot fun talking with people this week. Go Bills! Squish the fish! Let's get over the hump today!

It's gonna be a great day today I can feel it. Let's go Bills!

I give you credit for actually answering. (serious no sarcasm) I take issue with Flacco (worse than TT since 15), Dalton (worse that TT since 2015), Palmer (old), Cutler, Brissett (what? please explain), Bradford (can't stay healthy), Mariota (bad this year), Bridgewater (TT light coming off of major injury another I'd like you to tell me why), Eli (it's all over for him) So that puts him around 20th for me give or take. Same place he was at the beginning of the year. I appreciate the discussion. I'd be happy to debate the guys I've listed here so give it a shot. How are the guys I listed better than Tyrod? In what ways? Is there anything he is better at than them in your opinion?

Immediately thought the same thing. Please Gettleman do us a solid for your boys!

^^^will figure out how to get his seizure inducing avatar back

I feel fine. You stated that "It's not like we in a world where QB's double that in a season." Extremely rarely that it does happen. In fact I just looked it up and there are only 12 seasons EVER where qbs have passed for 40 or more. That wasn't even your original post it was double 21 or 22. There have been 8 such seasons in the history of the NFL. Your post made it try to seem like it happens all the time. Like I said use facts and people won't have issue with your takes. Exaggerate and you will be corrected. Got it little buddy? (I keed)

This is exactly the strategy I hope they employ. Keep Tyrod and hopefully the young guy beats him out. There is no need to be worse at the position. Keep Tyrod and try to get better at the position. Then you know what the floor is. Luck had 40 half of that is 20... Weird that you skipped 2015. Oh wait nobody got higher than Brady's 36 How about 2016? Oh Rodgers led the league at 40? How about in 2017? Anyone? No? hmm so in the last 3 years NOBODY has doubled 21 or 22. Prior to that 5 guys have done it in the last 6 years. We aren't asking you to change your opinion on Tyrod. We are asking you to use facts in your argument and not your overemotional overreactions. That's all. You can think Tyrod isn't the answer and you can think the teams needs to improve at the spot. You can't call him the 30-35th best qb when no numbers back that up. You can't call him a backup at best when there aren't 32 better players than him at the position. Brian freaking Hoyer was a week 1 starter this year!

I want to join in on this. I know I shouldn't but I can't help it. 21 or 22 tds or less in a season in 2016: (Tyrod had 23) Cam Newton Carson Wentz Alex SMith Joe Flacco Andy Dalton Russel Wilson in 2015: (Tyrod had 24) Jameis Winston Matt Ryan Big Ben Alex Smith Marcus Mariota Tyrod is a middle of the road of the road starter. As much as you and others want to mock him that is what he is. The names i listed above are just the big names that Tyrod (gasp) finished better than in regards to tds. People are invested in the Bills emotionally so they judge Tyrod much harsher than other qbs. Mariota was very average to even sub par this year. Tyrod in his worst year as a starter outperformed him in passing tds, ints, and qb rating. Be honest did you know that before I posted or is Mariota a franchise qb in your opinion? The Bills should use their capital to try and upgrade the team at every spot including at QB. However they shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. Tyrod is looked at around the league as a guy you can win with. Not a guy you win because of but there are only a handful of guys in the league that are like that. I get wanting a superstar at qb and want the same. Tyrod has done very well with the cards dealt to him. His # 1wr was traded in training camp, his #1 te was hurt for a good chunk of the year, there is no #2 rb. Prior to this year he led a very successful offense that scored a lot of points. He has a winning record in Buffalo. He isn't some savior and nobody in the "cot" thinks he is. He also isn't "the 30-35th best qb in the league." That's an asinine statement but I'll give you and others a shot. Name 29 better qbs than Tyrod. I'll wait...

^^^will finally file his formal request for Orton to be on the wall.

agree with teef. It depends if you are looking for a console specific game. There are only a few of those left anymore though. I own a ps4 because I owned a ps3 because I owned a ps2 because I owned a ps. If you are a hardcore gamer you might notice a difference. If you are not it really won't matter much. I started with Playstation because online gaming was free. That isn't the case anymore so there is even less of a distinction between systems. Video games for me are a social thing so most of my friends also own ps4s. Just put in a 3 hour cod session last night . Might not seem like much but that is the most I have played consecutively in a few years. Used to play all night!