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I hate your logic of it happening in the third quarter and thus not having an effect on the outcome. That was a huge momentum shift as well as very deflating to the lions team. As for the refs- a block in the back on megatron that was phantom, as well as a phantom hold on the same drive. I stand by the Andre Johnson catch being a non catch because he didn't complete it as he went to the ground (unless I missed something and someone can correct me), and in at least 2 times where I thought pi should have been called against the texans and I just got that feeling. It just didn't feel like the calls were even and it is a disturbing trend in the league lately.

Question on that Andre Johnson catch they reviewed. Doesn't he have to complete the catch as he goes to the ground? I thought it should have been ruled an incomplete because of that. As an unbiased observer the refs clearly favored Houston in this game. Reason? I have none but it appeared fairly obvious at least to me.

Especially the prospects they hype out of nowhere. Gabbert comes to mind in this mold. Unfortunately so does Gilmore but hey they've got to be right some of the time too! (I hope )

Please read this...

? Mypoint in this thread was to dispel a popular tbd myth. As some have laid out (that actually contributed to the thread) there was much more to it than the Bills choked against 3rd stringers and blew their chance. I don't think it's making excuses.

Best thing he has done is re-sign players. In years past Stevie would have left, chandler would be gone, anyone that showed anything in the nfl gone. I also like how active the bills are on the waiver wire. Urbik, pears, and chandler have benefited the bills this route. Lastly I love that they cut bait with players that can't produce. Cutting Trent was ballsy and so was trading lee Evans. The record may not reflect the improvements of the bills but the roster is clearly improved since Buddy took over.

Safest pick in the draft the year he came out....

What makes me skeptical of him (Orange fan too btw) is he reminds me a lot of Trent. He does an awful lot of checking down or at least I thought so before this year. Secondly he is a qb at cuse. That in itself makes me skeptical. That said before this year I didn't think he was a pro qb. After watching him I have changed my tune. I don't know if he can compete in crazy conditions but in the dome he is amazing. The Louisville game he threw darts everywhere all over the field against a top 10 team. He also exploded earlier in the year (Northwestern), played well against a top D (USC), and has had a qb rating over 100 in each game this year. He is deserving of a mid round flier. Somewhere in the 3-4-5 range. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him end up in New Orleans. Marrone coached for them before coming to Cuse and may recommend him. At the very least an apprenticeship behind Brees can't hurt.

I agree that they blew it. I just don't agree with the assessment of the steelers talent level. Tommy Maddox went 12-24 for 120 yards 1 td and 2 int. He didn't beat us but a super bowl foundation D and a top flight rb (even though they weren't thought of as that at the time) beat the Bills. As for not needing the game that is almost irrelevant to me. The backups that they played wanted that game. They didn't go in to that game to lay down. They went in with something to prove and unfortunately most of them did. He did get some garbage time but the majority of the game was Maddox.

In the Bills are not out of it thread and across this board in general I keep running into this comment: The Bills just had to beat the Steelers backups and get in. This much is true. What I can't stand is the routine reference to it being their third stringers and nobodies. While it was the Steelers backups at the time many of those players went on to have great careers for Pittsburgh. Case in point: the no name rb who torched the Bills that day? Fast Willie Parker who before injuries ended his career was a great #1 back for them. Who led their receiving corps? Antwaan Randle-el who was instrumental in a sb win before leaving for greener pastures. Hines Ward and Deuce Staley also saw action in this game. As for defense you know who was on the field because he was a backup? James Harrison who actually scored on a fumble return. Troy Polamalu added a sack. Brett Kiesel, Kendrell Bell, and Ike Taylor all who were instrumental in super bowl runs for the steelers were "backups and nobodies" on this team. Add in the contributions of James Farrior and Larry Foote (yes many starters did play in this game for Pitt) and it was hardly a scrub team. The team those 04 Bills lost too had incredible depth. Many of those "bench" players went on to have great careers in this league, some may even end up in the hall of fame. Lastly, that Steelers team was 14-1 going into that game. They had run over and through the entire NFL with a rookie QB. Big Ben was okay that year but was basically asked to hand off the ball and ride the bus to victories. That team was very very good. So for the love of god can we please put to rest the myth of the Bills blowing it against bums? They had an opportunity against a team that had clinched and blew it but the team they lost to certainly was not comprised of bums. Game Stats Depth Chart

Except I don't think he/she ever does post or add anything to the conversation. It generally is the link only with no insight or opinion added by the op. As I stated earlier I browse from my phone and some of the loading times are annoying at best. Also why can't it be the link and a blurb. If we are intrigued or interested then we can click on the link. It seems easy enough to do as well as just being polite (imo)

1. Wanny - I wonder how much he had to do with the defense last year. In a bad way. 2. LB corp - honestly is there a worse group of lbs in the league? I put a lot of the defensives truggles on these 2 factors. 3. Gailey - play calling aside - leaving half the team to the coordinator is disgusting. I think he really is an offensive genius. What he has accomplished with a so-so receiving corp and Fitz has been impressive, the lack of adjustments/involvement in the D - not so much. 4. High priced DE acquisitions - Mario is rounding into form and Anderson is hurt so this may change by the end of the season, but I was dreaming of pass rush explosion! Brady being scared to face the Bills instead of calling them "his B word" 5. Front Office - I don't think it would have been knee jerk to fire Wanny. My fear is that with the easy schedule coming up the D will look good not because they have improved jut that their opponents are worse. This will lead to Wannstache getting to stick around another year.

Of course he's better than Dilfer but does that mean he doesn't play the same role?

When is he asked to do this? I just simply don't understand how low pass attempts with high rushing attempts doesn't refute this. You said yourself a caretaker hands the ball off and doesn't lose the game for his team. When I watch the Texans this is exactly what I see from Schaub - and the facts back me up relative to rushing and passing attempts.

Now I know you're just messing with me. The Texans rely on the pass to win their games?!?! What in the world? The texans have run the ball 350 times this year! That is the most in the league and only 4 other teams have gone over 300 carries. Conversely they have thrown the ball 335 times this year. Sounds about 50/50 right? Well that amount of attempts is tied for 21st in the league! They are over 100 attempts behind the league leader and it includes the 55 attempts he had yesterday! Where Schaub falls in rankings is objective. You take offense to my use of the word caretaker which is fine but I ask you: is Schaub the reason the Texans are good or is Schaub good because the supporting cast is good? Is Schaub the reason they are 9-1 or is having the best Defense in football the reason? When they make the playoffs will it be because of Schaub or because of the D/running game? T.J. Yates awaits your answer. As for who is on the receiving end being irrelevant... Is Andre Johnson great because he has Matt Schaub throwing him the ball or does Schaub look better because he has Johnson to make the grabs/get open?

How about I say I agree to disagree. I have watched Schaub. A ton. I come away thinking he's good not great. I also come away thinking his role is not to win games instead it is not to lose them. That's why I feel he is a caretaker. How many pro bowls has he gone to? 1 as an injury replacement. Better yet how did Matt Leinhart and then T.J. Yates look when they came in last year? Apparently when you watch the Texans you see an amazing qb. I see an amazing d, the best rb in the game, a top 5 wr, and a pretty good qb. edit: also I would like to know what part of my argument is nonsense?

Brandon Meyers from the Raiders might be worth a look too. He gets a lot of looks and the Raiders have to pass a lot so he puts up some decent numbers

Thank you. I have been thinking about posting this for a while as it seems he posts 5 threads a day. Link only no idea whether I want to click on it or not... Even a quick sample would be appreciated. Not sure about meathead but I do the majority of my tbd'ing on my phone and it certainly takes longer than that. Especially with some of the weird sites that get linked...

Gresham has quietly been a breakout player. I know because I've had to start him all year in place of Hernandez . He does better in a ppr so I hope that's what you're playing...

Nice try on the straw man argument. That was not the only reasons I listed. His stats except for ypa don't jump off the page at you. This is with the benefit of playing with the players I listed. Wow did you read the thread? I have said this isn't a Schaub vs. Fitz argument. I simply said that Schaub, Flacco, and Alex Smith benefit greatly from playing with great Defenses. Fitz would as well. Against the Jags D. He had a great game and I won't discount it... too much. Over half of those yards went to Andre Johnson - 273 and a td. He also accomplished this in almost 5 quarters. Thanks for bringing name calling to the discussion... it always adds a ton. So now he's better than Peyton and Brady? Sorry but if people are going to pull straw man arguments against me I will do the same. Why is his ypa higher thank kelly? It is a completely different game. Why is it higher than Peyton and Brady? They pass much much more and the opposing D has to play against the pass. The Texans offensive philosophy is the exact opposite. They run to set up the pass.

I don't understand how you see them as mutually exclusive. On D they have changed coaches, schemes, and added players (V Davis most notably). Of course Luck is helping out but the D improving has helped as well. If he was there with no difference in the Defense they would not (imo) have all of the wins they have now. Again see Joe Flacco, Matt Schaub, and again best example Alex Smith how a good/great D HELPS the qb.

Just heard an excellent stat and this I believe is the perfect place to put it. How many people think Andrew Luck has turned around the colts? Probably a lot of people.... Not so fast my friend(s).... The Colts have won 6 games already after winning only 2 last year. Many people are attributing this to Andrew Luck but look closer at the numbers. The Defense is giving up 5 points less a game. Not a big deal you say? Well 4 out of the 6 wins the Colts have are by less than 4 points. The defense improving has directly led to more wins. The Bills currently give up 31.7 ppg. That is good enough for last in the league. The idea that you're pushing Alpha that every game would be different is true but how can you discount what the O is doing with a terrible d? The Titans game and Pats game that people want to put on Fitz's shoulder's were not garbage time points. 31 and 34 points were scored legitimately. If anything a better D would give the ball back faster and more often to the offense. That leads to a tired D on the other team and can only help the Offense. Are there better qbs than Fitz? Of course. Are there worse than him? Of course. To think an improved D wouldn't help him out? Well Joe Flacco, Matt Schaub and best example Alex Smith would all like to disagree with that idea.

a little late to the party

Interesting article.... Wonder how many Bills fans feel this way.