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Run blocking they are an excellent o-line. Pass pro is a bit different though. I see them getting pushed around a lot and I wonder if the reliance on quick hitting passes has to do with this. It doesn't seem like Fitz is given much time to get comfortable. When they give him time is when we see his really good games. When they don't we get the colts game. I by no means think the o-line can be described as bad I just feel they get a boost bc the ball is out quickly. When the Bills played the Giants the comments from the Giants d-line were that sacks against him were nearly impossible because the ball comes out so quick. That is what I was alluding to - sometimes that stat skews people's perceptions.

Here's the thing though, I'm not a Fitz lover. I realize his shortcomings. I realize the Bills would be well served by an upgrade at the qb position. I also realize that there are teams with worse starting qbs. I also realize that the o-line looks much better bc Fitz gets the ball out so quickly. I also realize other than SJ13 he has few tools to work with as far as receivers go. I also realize that other qbs miss wide open receivers. I also realize that other qbs fail down the stretch. As for the Baltimore win you realize they have the 25th ranked D right? They are missing Webb and Lewis as well as Suggs going down. This isn't the normal vaunted Ravens D that he torched.

wow just wow. Well Charlie Batch lost to the Browns so I guess that would be at least 1 win off the board. I really don't want to resort to name calling but :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:

By your logic Batch, Cassel, and Alex Smith are interchangeable. I'm no Alex Smith fan but you can't believe they are all eqqually as talented. Please explain to me how a 38 year old Charlie Batch is as good as Fitz in your eyes. Please explain what Campbell has done to be thought of as good. Your list has a lot of holes. In your opinion Matt Cassel is better than Michael Vick!

Up 11.5 going into the fourth!

I'm ahead 15 got Bradshaw in a ppr vs. griffin. I'm also ahead enough points for my tie breaker due to some miracles! Need Bradshaw to our score Cruz by 7 in the second half to get the w. for my fingers crossed!

Then it is a completely unrelated crime. Of course it would be terrible but how can you plan on that or use that as your logical thought process. Once they are down and not a threat the legal thing to do would be to call the police and let the justice system work. Now it looks like the justice system will be working against him. The whole other gun aspect is what bothers me. If he had pumped all of those bullets from one gun and quickly I would believe it was self defense without question. His actions during and after leave a lot of questions.

Do you actually watch other teams play? Or do you only watch the Bills and then highlights? To say that only the Jets and Cards have a worse qb situation makes me wonder if you even watch Bills games. Or did Chad Henne show you he was the real deal yesterday?

You're right the Bills could never beat the Dolphins this year

Thanks I fixed it. I'm up and down on Flacco, at home he is usually very good but on the road not so much. Add to that the benefit of playing with the D he does and I have a hard time bumping him. I thought to myself if we put Fitz on their team would they be better or worse and also conversely if their qb came to the Bills would the Bills be better or worse. 17-21 is where I ended up too I had a real hard time with Rivers too. He should be better than Fitz but I just don't see it translate. I wonder if it is the lack of weapons and coaching but it appears something else has been happening these last 2 years. Physical breakdown maybe?

The shot under the chin was what I referring to. I have no problem with self defense in his home but this is your definition of self defense? He put 3 shots into the guy with the last as the kid was laying on the ground looking up at him. The girl got 1 shot put into her then it jammed so he put the gun under her chin and shot her? Self defense to me is protecting yourself against imminent danger not questionable danger, and when the suspects have been shot and incapacitated the danger is over. Add to that he didn't call the police immediately? Like I said I won't make declarations one way or the other on my feelings as there are to many questions and to little information but I realize this is PPP.

He is average imo. I would say worse than him are; gabbert/henne, kolb/skelton, wheeden, bradford (I don't care where he was drafted Rams should have traded him and drafted rg3), tannehill, sanchez, Locker, Quinn/Cassell, Carson Palmer, Nick Foles, and Ponder. On a plain with Flacco, Dalton, and Alex Smith. So I have him clearly better than 11 qbs and on a plain with 3 putting him somewhere between 17-21 which I think is reasonable. Better than him without question; Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Manning x2, Cutler, Rodgers, Ryan, Freeman, Early but likely better; Luck, rg3, Newton, Wilson Probably better; Rivers, Stafford, Schaub and Romo

It is a very interesting case because he clearly went above and beyond protecting himself. I can't make a declaration either way but it is one to keep an eye on. My first instinct/reaction is to give him a slap on the wrist. Nobody will be breaking into his house anytime soon. Also the part about a neighbor suspecting he was taking pets was a clear attempt to slant opinion against him. Gossip counts as news now? What happened to the media?

You do understand that Hilton is one of the fastest players in the league right now don't you? I would wager there are only a handful of PLAYERS in the league that can keep up with him. Brooks ran a 4.35 which is more than respectable. Honestly we're questioning the speed of a 4.3 player? This board has become noticeably reactionary. People have become so emotional and upset they are no longer rational. I think takeyoutotasker made a good clarification on his point but my general feeling is people have no f*cking clue what they are talking about. Sad really as this board used to have excellent knowledgeable topics/posters. There is a thread up today about Charlie Batch with some posters saying he is better than Fitz! As an aside and I know wgr gets bashed here I thought he was a good listen. It was only the first 5 minutes of the game but I was pleasantly surprised with his insight and the way John Murphy did the play by play then let Kelso talk. It seemed like a good team to me (again it was very small sample size but my opinion from what I heard fwiw)

Honestly stop it. I'm guessing you didn't watch him throw 3 picks against the Browns? No it wasn't. St. Pierre came in for mop up duty.

Except for Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers. That's a good chunk of your elite qbs right there and none of them were even top 20 picks. There are no clear cut #1 guys this year. Geno Smith on down all of the qbs that are coming out this year have warts.

P2 - LB, QB needs to best of these two for at least the first 2 rounds. I would argue a qb and 2 lbs in the first 3 rounds would help this team immensely. P3 - CB, WR Both of these are needs and just slightly below the top lb, qb for need imo P4 - C, RT Wood's injury rate scares me and the right side of the line could use some assistance. These aren't pressing needs but depth concerns. P5 - DE, DT, OG, more depth but not as critical as the others listed above. I would say we are set at the Safety postion as well as LT, RB, and TE. Get 'er done Astro! P5 -

Other teams have wins against crappy teams and they count but when the Bills do it the games don't count because they should have beaten the team anyway. Other teams struggle through portions of the season but when the Bills do it fans want to lose out for a better draft pick while the team is still mathematically alive for the playoffs! Other teams regularly draft in the later part of the rounds with great success but the Bills could never do that. Other teams have made the playoffs at 9-7 (heck the last 2 sb winners were 9-7) but the Bills are so far away they can't even sniff the playoffs (even though they can still possibly finish 9-7. Other teams have been blown out by the Texans and 49ers but when the Bills do it it's because no one on the team deserves to play in the NFL. Other teams fail on last second drives but when the Bills do it it's because Ryan Fitzpatrick is the worst qb in the league. Other teams qbs miss passes and have bad games but when Ryan Fitzpatrick does it it's because he is the worst qb in the league. Lastly I understand the frustration of the last 12 years but each year needs to be viewed in a vacuum. The Bills have shown improvement this year and I'd like to see it continue. For all of the people that want to blow it up and start over what happens if the hires are worse? What happens if the draft pick busts? What happens if Fitz is better than the qb that is brought in? The Bills are not that far away and have been building themselves up the last few years - why would anyone want to see this destroyed? Why would anyone ignore the improvements and ask for this to be blown up and start over? I just don't get it.

Williams is 29 years old and for a d-lineman that isn't that bad. As for the "other" DE - Moore has been very impressive by my eye. In fact a lot of these improvements happened when Bradham and Moore began starting and Searcy started subbing for the senator more often. Lastly the rankings are a bit skewed in the middle parts of the season as teams that haven't had their byes yet are higher in the rankings for yards allowed etc. due to the lack of games played. Op your point stands though this D is definitely improving.

It's an option when you set up the poll. If you did it from a phone the option may not have been easily visible like if you had done it on a cpu. Back to the topic though we are up to 40 people who want to lose out! I never thought it would get that high. Playoffs or not the improvement of the team is what I am looking for. The team put 4 wins then 6, I'd like to see at least 8 this year and feel that the Bills are on their way up. To the crowd that is worried that means more of Chan, Fitz, and Wanny - I would like to see the Bills stay the course because I feel the Bills are moving in the right direction. Other teams have wins against crappy teams and they count but when the Bills do it the games don't count because they should have beaten the team anyway. Other teams struggle through portions of the season but when the Bills do it fans want to lose out for a better draft pick while the team is still mathematically alive for the playoffs! Other teams regularly draft in the later part of the rounds with great success but the Bills could never do that. Other teams have made the playoffs at 9-7 (heck the last 2 sb winners were 9-7) but the Bills are so far away they can't even sniff the playoffs (even though they can still possibly finish 9-7. Other teams have been blown out by the Texans and 49ers but when the Bills do it it's because no one on the team deserves to play in the NFL. Other teams fail on last second drives but when the Bills do it it's because Ryan Fitzpatrick is the worst qb in the league. Other teams qbs miss passes and have bad games but when Ryan Fitzpatrick does it it's because he is the worst qb in the league. Lastly I understand the frustration of the last 12 years but each year needs to be viewed in a vacuum. The Bills have shown improvement this year and I'd like to see it continue. For all of the people that want to blow it up and start over what happens if the hires are worse? What happens if the draft pick busts? What happens if Fitz is better than the qb that is brought in? The Bills are not that far away and have been building themselves up the last few years - why would anyone want to see this destroyed? Why would anyone ignore the improvements and ask for this to be blown up and start over? I just don't get it.

Not sure why Rogers even tried to field that punt. Starting to get nervous - I'd love to see a long extended drive that results in points here.

Marino also did this against the jets.

at FIRST I was mad. as my anger was gROWing I remembered its only SPORTS. Then I went to google to see if there were any phrases I could think of to find a stream and lo and behold I did.

Super Mario!

Called it! Now what do I win lol