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This is what bothers me. We know what Orton is and well it ain't good. We don't know what Manuel is yet. As for the Detroit game that "there is no way Manuel wins because he couldn't hit that throw to Goodwin." Well maybe he doesn't make that terrible throw to Sammy that gets taken to the house. As for this weeks game, maybe he doesn't take that ridiculously bad sack where Orton stared at the guy barreling down on him, maybe he doesn't throw the pick, or fumble when he gets hit. Nobody knows what he would have done. I do know at halftime of the Pats* game I thought to myself Orton has done absolutely nothing in this game that EJ couldn't have. This whole 300 yards passing means squat to me. Orton has had some nice throws and I think RIGHT NOW he is better than EJ. That doesn't mean that EJ couldn't have the same 1-1 record Orton had. In that Detroit game the defense gave up 7 points! EJ is intriguing for the future, Orton is not. Davis is intriguing right now but he had a terrible second half and it will be interesting to see if he can sustain it ala Tony Romo or fizzle like so many others (Cousins is a great example). I am interested to see how EJ is going forward and hope that he does indeed turn into a franchise caliber player. I completely understand the move to Orton though that doesn't mean I really like it.

To piggyback PO'14.... For everyone saying that fixing the sport would be impossible due to the number of people involved you really should check out Tim Donaghy. If he is believed, here is an excerpt from his wiki page: On June 10, 2008, Donaghy's attorney filed a court document alleging, among other things, that Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and Sacramento Kings was fixed by two referees. The letter states that Donaghy "learned from Referee A that Referees A and F wanted to extend the series to seven games. Tim knew Referees A and F to be 'company men', always acting in the interest of the NBA, and that night, it was in the NBA's interest to add another game to the series."[39] The Lakers won Game 6, attempting 18 more free throws than the Kings in the fourth quarter, and went on to win the 2002 NBA Finals. The teams were not named, but the Western Conference Finals was the only seven-game series that year.[40] The document claimed that Donaghy told federal agents that to increase television ratings and ticket sales, "top executives of the NBA sought to manipulate games using referees".[39] It also said that NBA officials would tell referees to not call technical fouls on certain players, and states that a referee was privately reprimanded by the league for ejecting a star player in the first quarter of a January 2000 game.[39] Stern denied the accusations, calling Donaghy a "singing, cooperating witness".[40] Whether you want to believe him or not, it wouldn't be the first time a major league has been found to be fixing games. Serie A in Italy had a huge scandal in 2006. The point is that fixing these games could be happening. Is it happening? I won't say that. What I will say and what I want all of you to ask yourselves is this; if evidence were to come out tomorrow stating that the league was fixed, on a scale of 1-10 how shocked would you be? If the answer is less than 10 then the NFL has a serious perception problem on their hands. This game won't stay on top forever and it is the small cracks that cause the entire thing to come down. Whether it be the feeling or reality of refs not being 100% honest, player conduct off the field, league saturation/overexposure, player safety, or something else, problems continue to mount for the NFL.

He does teach you something. When a coordinator can't do his job you get rid of him. The O Line is certainly playing well but the biggest difference with the team is they don't have a historically bad Defense. Firing Monte Kiffin was the best move they made all off season imo.

FTFY

I completely disagree with you except the bold part. Seriously why? What could he have possibly been thinking there? He is basically giving the TD up by committing that penalty so why not try to make him earn it and catch the ball. That is one of the stupidest plays I have ever witnessed. Yup watched the game with some family and said before the game "I know I don't complain about the refs but there is going to be some terrible calls made in favor of the Pats* today." Never have I wanted to be wrong more....

They did lose by 14 but the last 7 was from a pick 6 which the Rams had to throw because they were down 7 at that point. None of us have any idea how the 2nd half plays out without that call. This call didn't make St Louis lose the game. That said it was huge blunder and definitely effected the outcome of the game as all calls do. The call didn't give up the 80 yard td but it certainly contributed to the ability of the niners to score the td. Much like the calls against the Pats*. It isn't s much the calls themselves it is what they lead to (even if it isn't points). The call against Hughes gave the Pats* a first down. They didn't score but it did allow them to possess the ball and get another chance that they shouldn't have had to score while tiring out the defense. The timing of the calls is important and the fact that they happen is important regardless of the final outcome. Incompetence should not be accepted or tolerated from officials at this level. I don't think games are fixed but I do think refs play favorites which is and should be completely unacceptable.

Yes it was. There are multiple threads and one of them lays out nicely the difference in calls for the Pats* and non calls for the Pats*.

I hope this doesn't go away easily. I am disturbed by the trend that has been going on this year in Bills games. The flags that have gotten thrown have been situationally terrible and extremely detrimental. The Pats* get stopped on 3rd down? Must be a penalty on Buffalo. Buffalo is driving to tie the game? Let's make multiple calls that are questionable at best to stop them. Walt Coleman has an entire section on his wiki page just for controversies! How does someone get to keep reffing, let alone reffing Patriot games? The tuck rule was him, the pats*/colts mugging game was him! This is getting to be way too much of a "coincidence" for me anymore...

Well I had posted this already but it must have been in one of the four deleted versions. What would have happened if the refs didn't swallow the whistle on the clear holding/PI on the last interception? What happens if EJ then leads the team down the field for the game winning TD? The Bills were certainly driving at the time of the int and he has proven he can do it (CAR last year). It is crazy to me that EJs career may have been essentially ended in Buffalo on a missed call that is supposedly a point of emphasis.

I think this management group has done better than most other recent groups with exactly this. They have brought in several problem players and given them a chance. Off the top of my head in the last 2 years: Mike Williams, Duke Williams, Seantrel Henderson, Darick Rogers, and Kiko. If they prove worth their salt or "get with the program" they are given a chance to prove themselves. From the outside looking in we aren't privy to everything that goes on behind the scenes. Again it appears that this was the right call and it also appears that the Bills are giving those that DESERVE it more time to sort it out due to their size, speed, whatever. I'm pretty sure Kirby lost some sleep when Hogan made the team again This is also the 3rd Rogers thread and the first garnered 50+ pages. People were VERY upset about him being cut.

How does ending it early hurt the roster though? If you know it isn't working why keep at it? This regime has proven to be quick and decisive on matters. EJ getting the hook is just the latest example, cutting Rogers was one, cutting Brown last season was another. It does hurt the depth of the roster by keeping a guy that doesn't do anything for you which is what we all (I think anyway) agree on. Where we disagree is that a player like Hogan who will contribute on special teams. The disagreement is whether Hogan or Rogers contributes more. Rogers won't cause Marrone to lose the locker room but what value does a player have that contributes nothing but is a physical specimen. Big deal he had 1000 yards receiving in the SEC. His head isn't screwed on straight. Cobi Hamilton is a player that actually led the SEC in receiving, he was DRAFTED by the Bengals and is now on the Eagles practice squad. The hand wringing over Rogers is too much in my and many others opinions.

I get all that but how long should they have taken the shot for? They took a shot on him by bringing him into camp. He proved that he wasn't worth the spot he was occupying on the roster and so they parted ways. This is what I struggle with his argument. How long would have been acceptable? Is this latest instance just more proof that he doesn't get it?

I think it is funny that you bemoan not taking chances but that is exactly what they have done. You listed Darick, Peters, and Jasper. They all got shots with the Bills. The Bills figured out quickly that he wasn't going to work out. So they did exactly what you wanted them to do. They gave him a chance. In fact they did it with Kiko last year and Seantrel this year. They have taken risks on talented guys. They just cut the cord on Rogers. It appears for now that it was the right move. As for Hogan, Roosevelt, and Elliot blah blah blah your JAGS, if Rogers was worth a spot he would have beaten them. He didn't. So what are the Bills to do? Find another "diamond in the rough"? Or reward the guy who knows your system because he was in camp all year. I get your point. I really do. The problem with it is that the Bills have been doing what you are saying is the best way to go. Except for some reason cutting Rogers (after proving multiple times on multiple teams that he isn't worth it) is your shining example of poor management. There are many many better examples than the cutting of Da'Rick.

I thought Belinda meant everything you need to know is in the thread title.

It looks like 2-4 is on the horizon as well. Houston is terrible and losing to them is terrible. I said it multiple times yesterday but I hate being a Bills fan. It's the worst kind of addiction. You get maybe 6 weeks of euphoria a year and 46 weeks of depression. Sheesh Heroin treats its addicts better than that. (I kid of course....kind of) Got my first coming anytime. It will be a welcome distraction!

Well I will say first and foremost being able to keep his nose clean in NYC where they are constantly digging for dirt would be reason #1. That said there is the Turn 2 Foundation, then there is this page highlighting his charitable work, but above all else he is the quintessential example of doing things the right way. He never got a DWI, he never had domestic issues, never cheated on his wife, never did any of the things that we as fans say what was that guy thinking?

It's funny but my thought was Eddie Vedder " " right before the guitar solo in yellow ledbetter.

I like Williams more. I feel like Martin is just living on those few huge games he had at the end of his rookie year. Williams has no competition at all in the backfield. He will get all passes and red zone touches. Martin will have to split with Rainey and plays for the Bucs

Seriously Most popular team in all of American sports? Check Most popular player on most popular team? Check Player who stayed clear of ALL controversy during one of the most controversial times in Baseball history? Check Last of the core four? Check Last time Bob Shephard will announce a player in a regular season game? Check There was a lot to talk about with this end of an era. Make no mistake about it, it is just that. Jeter is the last tie to the World Series runs in the late 90s. Even those that don't like the Yankees have to have a respect for him. It was a sad and emotional day for a lot of Yankee fans myself included. This guy was the starting shortstop from my freshman year of high school, through college, through my 20s, through me getting married, all the way through me expecting my first kid. Jeter has been Mr. Do everything right for a long chunk of my life. It is very sad to see him go but what a way to go! Seriously this guy must have been an amazing person in his previous life to be as blessed as he is in this one!

Just going to drop this stat here: In 6 more starts than EJ, Geno has 1 more td thrown and 15 more ints. Please tell me more about how Geno is better

For sure but like I said predict 6 or 7 wins and be done with the Bills lol. They would be batting .875 over the last 8 years if they did that!

This is exactly what blows my mind. The Bills are rarely out and out terrible. It is pretty safe to mark them to draft between 9 and 11. Yet every preseason we see that they are rated in the bottom 3-5 teams. It makes no sense to me. I don't expect people to predict super bowl for the Bills but 4 or 5 wins? I think one of the safest bets is 6 or 7 wins for the Bills (7 of the last 8 years). I'm hoping for better this year and after this start I am expecting it but seriously it is a tradition that the Bills are expected to be in the top 5 for the draft (see all of the talk post-draft about the trade).

And just when I thought we were cool with the whole Russel Wilson thing! I catch a lot of flak for drinking it from my buddies but I'm just too old to care what they say. Like I said on a hot day it is the best beer (probably because it tastes so much like water but whatever). That Royale though.... First time with it caught me off guard after 3 of them I had to check the label! I was surprised I already had such a good buzz and then saw the 6%

I know it's a joke but cold Coors Light on the golf course while the sun is shining is damn near perfection in my world. I don't mind it's when they say sh*t like this down below... I really don't like many of the craft beers. IPAs are out for me as a rule as I just don't care for them. I like Stouts and Porters but hate paying through the nose for something I MIGHT like. Favorite Beers: Just drinking some beers - Coors Light Christmas TIme - Saranac Caramel Porter With the wife - Lambi Framboise - very fruity almost like having a glass of wine Gonna get drunk - Labatt Blue Light Royale - 6% and it is fantastic. If you haven't tried and like Blue of any kind get some you won't be disappointed.

SVP and Rusillo did a segment on who would you rather be, the topic was OAK or BUF. SVP (who I love listening to) destroyed BUF about how bad they were and the team may be leaving blah blah blah. I thought we might not be great but we have to have it better than OAK. It kind of jaded me on him a bit as it just seemed really lazy. If you get paid to cover sports know what you are talking about! Or just do like most other shows and ignore them altogether!