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Well as a HS ref (albeit for a different sport) this lawsuit has no leg to stand on. All games are concluded and final the minute the refs leave the field. All referee decisions are final. It does suck that the ref made the wrong call. It does suck that the team lost because of it but I learned this at a young age: It is never one call or one play that cost you the game. It was your performance that allowed you to be in the situation where one call or one play cost you the game. It is not easy reffing HS sports either. There is no instant replay to bail you out, every parent thinks there kid is d-1 talent, every coach thinks you are out to screw them and want the other team to win. This official will likely deal with threats and many other things that just aren't necessary including this lawsuit. This is another one of those situations where there will be no winners just losers.

So the Browns game 2 weeks ago then? That would fit your definition.

whoops. yes I put that in the other thread but forgot to mention it here. Good catch! Exactly my point and all I have been trying to say. This team has not been under .500 all year and I am hopeful for what the future may hold!

There may very well be coaches out there but at what cost? If Marrone leaves then Schwartz likely is also gone. Now we need to get all 3 (oc/dc/hc) who are the candidates? Harbaugh: Will never come to Buffalo. Won't leave the west coast, feud with Kelly (yes I think this actually matters), difficult to deal with, team has regressed this year. College coach: absolutely no guarantee of success or that they won't have the same issues as Marrone. The hard part with college coaches is you don't know if it is the talent level being different or the coaches being great. Look at Saban as the best example of a great college coach and a poor pro one. Adam Gase: is it him or Peyton? D Bevell: Sure the hawks offense is ranked 11th however if you dig deeper they are averaging 197 ypg passing good for 29th. They do sport the #1 rushing offense which can be attributed to a all time rushing performance from the qb position as well as Beast Mode. There will be no scrambling like what Wilson does here in Buffalo. I think anyone you bring in will come with a lot of question marks. I think anyone you bring in will have an adjustment period. I would prefer to give Marrone 3 years as I think he has earned that and it is only fair but for the worst of the worst coaches (which we agree he is not). I don't like the idea that coaches get less than 3 years and ask anyone to find a team that went from terrible to good (and sustained it) in less than 3 years. This is a sad sack downtrodden franchise and for the first time in a long time I actually see a light at the end of the tunnel. It would be a shame to me to move on without giving him a fair shake. If the team regresses next year then by all means we can move on but this team this year has shown progress even with it's glaring holes.

I will also be impressed if they beat GB but the 4 games I listed are 4 games they won that they weren't the favorites or expected to win. Of the 4 games you listed 2 were road games (1 of which was on short rest), 1 was against the team who has owned us for 10+ years, and KC. Of all of those the KC game is the one that stings the most. It was at home and the Bills had the win in their sights. The others? 2 hof top 10 all time qbs and a division game (against a team Marrone is 3-1 against no less which makes me wonder why the first miami game doesn't count if the second one does) on short rest on the road. Would have been awesome to have those wins but completely understandable losses.

Mariotta is a clear top 5 if not the #1 overall choice. Winston will also likely be off the board. Currently the Bills sit in the #17 spot. For a QB to drop that far in the first round they would have to come with some serious question marks. Currently Mannion (the Oregon State guy) is the #148 rated prospect on drafttek. Bryce Petty (the Baylor guy) sits at the #132 rated prospect on drafttek. It isn't a leap that both of these guys are available in the second. Realistically between 17 and 49 the Bills are looking at missing out on Hundley and maybe one other guy. 2015 is shaping up to be another bad year for QB in the draft which may be something that the Bills thought prior to the Sammy trade. My post was 5 minutes later but I hadn't seen this when I posited the same idea I swear!

To hire an experienced coordinator you are looking at someone who failed in their last stop. To hire an inexperienced coordinator you are taking a chance on an unproven guy. I'm not sure who the good candidates, if there are any, would be.

I answered in the other thread but I will put it here as well: Beat Carolina who finished 13-3 last year Beat Miami last year when Miami needed to win to get in the playoffs 19-0 Beat the 9-4 Lions on the road Beat the Bears this year on the road when nobody gave them a chance to.

How about the win against the 13-3 Panthers last year How about beating the defending Super Bowl champions last year How about the 19-0 win against Miami last year when they needed to win to get in the playoffs How about the win on the road against the 9-4 Lions this year How about the win week 1 against Chicago when nobody (yourself included if you are being honest with yourself) had them winning No it was never a good o-line. The team featured a quick strike offense that both masked FItz's weak arm and the lack of talent on the o-line. The pass plays were quick hitters. In case you want to talk about how much better Gailey was he led the team to the 14th, 19th, and 25th best offense while here. So does Marrone get credit for Kiko, Woods, Sammy, Preston Brown, S Henderson, or Duke Williams? Or does he just get blame for EJ and Cujo and the other misses? If you can't admit that teams whiff on picks all the time the you really can't continue to participate in this thread

Who builds the team the GM or the HC? He drafted the players and brought in the backups and signed Orton? Wow what does Whaley do?

Not at all. He has his issues just as any coach does. He just isn't the worst coach ever, a bumbling idiot, or deserving of being fired. Too many people on this board are on this crusade. The guy has gotten 2 years. 2! To turn around the franchise with the longest playoff drought in the entire history. Instead of being snarky about 1 sentence why don't you actually discuss the points I have raised.

Oh it is very clear from EVERY post that you don't like Marrone. I just wish people could be a little more objective about what they are seeing. I think Marrone has done a great job with the cards he has been dealt. The o-line isn't good and neither is the qb. That makes any innovation or even a simple offense difficult to run. As for offensive line expertise I would think it is easy to imagine he doesn't have time to devote solely to the offensive line. He has an entire team to oversee that is why HCs have position coaches. Again this is the sad sack sorry for 15 years Buffalo Bills. This team is playing tough hard nosed football for the first time in forever. This team is winning more than it is losing for the first time in forever. I don't get how people don't see this. Would you want Pete Carroll as the head coach in Buffalo? He went 7-9 in each of his first 2 years in Seattle (this in his second opportunity), how about Belicheck who went .500 in his first 2 years in NE (in his second stint). This was a job that had a ton of history and most of it poor. This wasn't a glamor job nor a quick fix job. Do you honestly not see a different team from the Gailey/Jauron time? Those teams were timid and soft. Those teams were lacking talent and toughness. This team is close on the talent part (with a few missing important pieces) and has arrived on the toughness part.

Adversity this year off the top of my head: 1. Ownership - sure it is settled now but it wasn't all the way through training camp and through the first week of the season. 2. Having to put a qb in who had no camp and less than a month with the team before the wr corps mutinied. 3. Lost both starting rbs in the span of a few minutes. 4. No practice for almost an entire week, having a home game against a division rival moved to a different city. 5. A schedule that has feature 4 games total in the first 13 against teams with a losing record. 1 of those teams counts twice and is a division rival (Jets) the other is 6-7. Maybe this isn't major adversity but points 1,3,4, and 5 are certainly nothing to sneeze at.

Every single decision is critiqued to no end. Please show me one coach who is perfect. Just one. That is what I mean. Does he know where Jerry Hughes is? Does it matter what he says? These things get handled in house but because we as fans don't know what happened people use it to fit their narrative. You would hate to be a Patriots* fan and the non answers given by Belicheck. On top of that Hughes normally plays about 70% of snaps which in this game would have been 38.5 snaps, he played 31. We want to make a huge deal about 7 snaps? The innovative offense? It's with the NFL caliber qb. What kind of offense do you expect with Kyle Orton running the show. The guy is a career .500 player and has shown exactly that on the Bills.

You can't be serious with this. Sure the Bills only got the ball back once but they had a chance to get it back twice. Now if they had a chance to get it 3 times your argument would hold merit. They lost by 1 score and had a chance to get the ball back to tie it. It didn't work out but how is that worse than getting the ball once and losing by 2 scores? 6 minutes left and 3 minutes left are 2 totally different things. You can't be serious thinking they are the same idea can you?

I think it is actually the opposite. I think many here watch the Bills TOO closely. Every tiny minute move is dissected and discussed until it is beat into the ground. Many here didn't like the Marrone hire and every story they can use to justify their preconceived notions they use. This is the general consensus about the job Marrone has done from outsiders. We are fans so it is difficult to reconcile the fact that these are the lowly Bills we are talking about. The fact that Marrone has brought them back to respectability is not lost like it is here. Here everyone wants to credit Whaley for the good roster moves and blame Marrone for the bad ones. They want to credit Schwartz and Pettine for the play of the defense and give none of it to Marrone. When Orton plays well it is in spite of the coaching blah blah blah. Marrone is doing a good job here whether people want to admit it or not. Nobody turns it around overnight anymore especially from the doldrums that were the 2000s Buffalo Bills.

Me neither. Seems people forget that the Offense was 14th, 19th, and 25th. Hackett had them at 19th last year and 22nd this year. I also don't get the idea that Frank Reich would be an improvement. The Chargers are currently 20th in Offense with a much better qb. They have gained a total of 116 more yards over 13 games and are averaging .9 more points a game. This is the huge improvement people are pining for?

You honestly think that is how it went down?! How many that are up in arms today about this benching supported the benching of Stevie for his celebration penalties?

The bracing for contact multiple times drove me insane. No keeping his eyes downfield, no standing tall in the pocket, no anything other than waiting to get sacked. One of the times he did it the line held up and he got confused lol.

Knowing some people that played for Marrone in Syracuse this isn't it at all. Marrone likes to keep everything in house. He wants there to be open discussion between players and coaches and doesn't want the splintering of position groups that happens from time to time on football teams. Taking responsibility for the penalties is leadership.

I think you found the answer on accident. The Cards stunk, got Warner and got good, Lost Warner and stunk again, Got Carson Palmer and were good again, lost Palmer and stink again. As for your overnight comment 2 years in the NFL is over night. Pretty much every coach gets at least 3 years. Especially ones that have shown progress. Oh the mythical sign the best ol free agent available and the best free agent qb. Also cut a player under a good contract who was playing well, not resign a player from the strength of our team. So let's see... you haven't named names (please do what miracle qb is available this year?), you have made our secondary worse, and made our d-line worse. Gee can I be your campaign manager for GM? It's almost like it isn't easy to just snap your fingers and fix your holes.... I love the teams you listed too for turn arounds. The Cards - got Carson Palmer. Also want to mention that this team was 8-8 just 2 years prior to Arians coming on board and had been to the playoffs 4 years prior, the super bowl 5 years prior. Yup they were certainly the same mess that the Bills were Redskins 2012 - one year is all you want? They are hot garbage and have been since that one winning streak amazingly enough it was during the only hot streak of rg3's career. I hope you have higher hopes for the Bills of building a long term winner. Since that "turnaround" the Redskins are 6-23. What a turnaround! Panthers 2013 - the team with the #1 pick at QB? (are you starting to sense a trend here?). The same one that is 4-8-1 this year? What a turnaround! Seahawks - the team with Russell Wilson? The team that had the #1 ranked defense in all of football last year? Hey guess what they went 7-9 in each of Carrols first 2 years. The 'hawks should have fired him!!!

U mad bro? Seriously go on the record (with sarcasm Mr. Palmer) and tell us how you would turn it around.

Glad to hear it. DIdn't know if you were getting saddle sore from your crusade I am actually in agreement with you that I would have preferred Manuel this year to Orton. I will take exception to your bolded though. The part I thought EJ was lacking the most was the leadership. He appeared to be too timid and not take charge enough to succeed. His comments about learning this after seeing Kyle do it were encouraging for me. Some people learn by seeing while others learn by doing. Hopefully sitting has been good for EJ and we see the benefits of it next year. We as fans just don't know any of the dynamics surrounding the shift. It certainly seemed the receivers were upset with Manuel's accuracy during that Houston game. We have no idea what else was going on behind the scenes.

So wait a second. Whaley gets credit for the talent he assembled but Marrone gets the blame for the QBs on the team? Do you see the contradiction here? Thank you for your valuable conrtibution to this thread Please do enlighten me with what your plan would be after exercising the nuclear option.

So 3 games out of 13 are fireable for you? Houston - road game against a motivated former qb, against most likely the defensive mvp who could not be contained, that came down to the last drive which featured a horrendous no call to end it when it should have been a first down. KC - the playoff team from last year, the team that has arguably one of the single most dynamic players in the NFL in J Charles, the same team that went out and beat the defending world champs the very next week or pasted the Pats*, and again a game that came down to the last drive where Orton went Orton and missed several plays. On top of the fact that the defense gave up a looonnnnggg td run on 4th and 1. Hell I won't even blame the d. Manny Lawson lost containment on the edge and then did it again on the Smith td run. So if Marrone gets no credit for the defense does he just get the blame? Mia - short week, division rival, on the road.