Ronin

OMG, hilarious! Particularly that one. Everyone knew in hindsight. ROFLMAO!!! Victory lap ... ?

ROFLMAO!!! Just what I was thinking. Then on to this; There are actually people that think that Whaley did a good job. Let's not forget that he left the profession altogether unless one considers the XFL part of the profession. LOL From GM to XFL admin. Then there's the "what would you have done?" which is used to attempt to pen-in the critic, to which I always respond, not put myself in the original situation to begin with, which is usually one of desperation. And of course the "we didn't know, no one knew." That's the beauty of the draft "experts" all saying essentially the same thing with none of them ever stepping out of the mainstream on their "independent" analyses. Talk about resting in the safety and comfort of the mass mentality. Makes one wonder given all of the draft busts how come almost none of the so-called experts can ever pick them out ahead of time. Good stuff!

Yup, that's exactly what it was. And funnier yet because Montana was so obviously done by that point. GREAT game tho, outstanding time. We hooked up with a group of Bills fans in the lots, some of the best tailgating next to Rich.

I'm sorry, was I interacting with you? And what, you simply can't help yourself but to flame and violate your own terms of service, that just oh by the way you're supposed to be enforcing, as a mod, or am I off. Sounds like a little bit of a mental disease if you ask me, but then again I'm no doctor, I just play one on TV.

I'll tell you what was crazy, we were at the game and afterwards on the radio they were raking Young across the coals talking about how he'd never amount to anything. We're just laughing thinking what on earth these people were watching, dude had 450 passing yards, mostly to Mike Sherrard and John Taylor, another 50 rushing, half as much as their RBs, 3 TDs. The rest of course is history but we were literally laughing our asses off.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that I had responded to you. Thanks for the significant contribution in butt-in fashion to the overall conversation. Feel better? And not that there's anything to be critical about or anything given his top-5 passing performance last season. Just sayin' ....

You said a mouthful there, and no worries at all about "rambling"/tangents, etc., I love the back-n-forth and this is a complex topic. Again, you have to keep in mind the politics that support that kind of stuff. Any monetary benefit to funding taxpayers is derived in terms of sales taxes typically. But do the math and it seems like a ludicrous proposition. Also, think stadiums like DC (Skins), Foxborough (Pats), and I'm sure several others whereby their teams contribute way more to the general funds but are nowhwere near "walkaround" areas. I've never been to Lambeau but based on the pics that doesn't seem that way either. I'm sure there are more also not having been to them all. The Meadowlands is way out in the middle of nowhere with zero "walkaround" area with two very profitable teams. I'll still always default to the value of tailgating in Buffalo since we obviously cannot support the pricey corporate seats that other markets do. I'm convinced that since we've sucked attendance would have been far lower if we had crappy tailgating like DC or other places. Same here, I have no political horse in the race, I simply react to league-wide trends & patterns and our local circumstances, particularly as contrasted with other markets and teams. For instance, I've never seen the degree and robustness of tailgating so far as we have. There was one exception which was the Niners when they were at Candlestick, but I haven't been to the new park so I have no idea whether or how it's changed. I agree with that up to the point, on implication, that tradition is enough to carry a team. The whole Cleveland/Baltimore fiasco demonstrates that, same with Houston moving to Tennessee, or the Rams moving to St. Louis. Tradition takes a bigtime backseat to money, make no mistake about that. The tradition may be a tiebreaker but that's about it insofar as the league is concerned. That's more or less a shell-game of sorts however. OK, so the county owns it, as they do Rich, and which I don't think will happen again since the county has already pulled it's pockets out of its pants revealing that they're empty. Couple that with a very significant if not majority of population that doesn't want yet another tax hike to pay for it. But even if it were to happen the taxpayers would still be picking up the tab, but the entire tab at that point and presumably w/o a 15+ year commitment from the team, or only as long as whatever their lease were. Look at it this way, if it makes no sense to build it w/o any involvement from the team, it's all but inconceivable that the team's 8 uses/year would be the use that puts it over the top and into profitability. Just not seeing that, particularly in Buffalo. Now maybe the downtown area has changed so much in recent years that it's like that now, I don't know, but based on what I know that simply doesn't seem viable. It's not like DC where the restaurants are open on the periphery where people eat all week long, I simply don't see that kind of foot-traffic in Buffalo. I'll believe the profitability model when I see it otherwise and will consider it to be a political smokescreen until that time. Anything else would be unwise. On that, to start, Indianapolis is a completely different city, eh. Otherwise, you hit the nail right on the head here. That's where the NFL prefers to have teams/stadiums, where the most "rich fans" that can afford "ridiculous PSLs" are. As you say, Buffalo simply isn't that place. For the same reasons, directly or indirectly, I see the same lack of viability with the "lease" [from the county] arrangement. As to Lucas Oil Stadium, Indiana also isn't NY and Indy far from WNY, I simply not only don't see "support" for something like that, last time there was a big outcry against it. Do you really see that being apropos to Buffalo? I'm struggling with it, mightily. Again, the primary economic boost to the taxpayers funding it is via sales tax. Add up the amount of sales tax collected every year and do the math. It's amazing how short these superficial studies fall. And then again, that's if the politicos actually repay the taxpayers, ... since when does that happen? I'm tellin' ya, it's all smoke-n-mirrors which is what politicians specialize in across the board. I don't think so, but maybe. It wasn't all that long ago, and frankly, on teams that on paper were better than ours is today, that we were struggling to get 40k seasons annually. It took the smooth talking Whaley, who was regarded just as highly as Beane is today, to sweet-talk fans into excitement again. And think about it, consider the hype on Allen, if the teams falls from a mistake there, man, that fall's going to be huge. The whole "BILL-ieve" thing is all but a joke today which is where "The Process" will be if it doesn't work out. Here's the thing that I've noticed, older fans are dwindling and their interest is falling off fast as A, they age, and B, they feel like they've been fleeced one too many times and don't want to be played for fools again. Many, a great many, that I've known, go to games primarily for the tailgating but wouldn't otherwise. So in getting back to that downtown stadium, if tailgating is hindered there will be a dropoff in the interest in going to games, the only question is to what extent, but I believe that it would not only be significant,, but that w/o a highly competitive (aka playoff competitive) team, it would be terminal. Hopefully we'll never find out. But still, I don't think that odds of that "perfect storm" scenario are anywhere close to that low. The team I'd say at best is 50/50 to render "The Process" viable and even less of Allen working out, again, at best. If that happens then I'm pretty sure that the team will become more of a financial burden to the league in the eyes of a majority of owners. The only other factor was a recession, which WNY weathers worse than other areas of the country, and that's all but a given with only the day/hour being unknown. So again, I don't think that's a "far from happening" thing. That stadium lease is up after this season pending only a 3-year extension that will go quickly with long-term decisions beginning to have to be made as early as next year. It's not really a question of abandonment othewise, it's more a question of whether or not it will succeed. Many a politician, particularly in WNY (Rochester very specifically) have tried to "renovate downtown" yet have merely dug bigger debt holes from which to climb out of. Here's where the Pegulas may be pissing into the wind, but the problem with WNY derives itself form the oppressive tax structure which is driving indigenous people from the state in no small numbers. That circumstance is nowhere even close to changing, not even on the horizon as such. And for eco-political reasons that I won't get into and no doubt you are aware of, those taxes will not be reduced anytime soon as they can't be or what remains crumbles. It's a lose-lose situation for the state, particularly WNY. Either way, I'm highly doubtful that the Pegula's goal will ever be realized as they envision it. As mentioned, they're pissing into the eco-political headwinds. If you ask me, they'll continue to fund it until they go broke, then the gig will be up. It'll be worse than 2008/2009, which was covered up in a way that will not be possible yet again. Having said that, again, WNY doesn't weather recessions as well as most parts of the country. As to the TV contracts, those do not appear to be a big part of the equation or problem insofar as we're concerned. We'll see, it's fun to discuss, and any number of outcomes are possible with any number of permutations of things we're discussing. For example, one outcome is that they manage to scrape together enough to build a downtown stadium, which would seem to be against what the Pegs have implied is possible, but let's say it happens. Suppose that it's only for 50k seats but that demand diminishes for exactly the reason that tailgating changes so significantly that many fans, particularly older ones, completely lose interest in merely "going to games" as fans in other markets do. That would cause an unsolvable problem at that time. We'll see, but the first hurdle is getting Allen corrected. If that doesn't happen then the first portion of my incredibly unlikely scenario will be firmly in place. From where I sit, analytically, I don't think we're far from that occurring. It will mean a new coach & GM, which means "square one," ... again. Given the hype on Allen, and considering that every times that happens more fans fall off into "prove it to me first" territory, I think that the situation will be relatively dark for us. Unfortunately there's nothing we can control about the vast majority of it. The one thing that we can control is subsidizing a poorly performing team, but my personal policy is that the owners treat it like a business, even to the extent of doing whatever they can to have us working stiffs fund their business expenses, the players treat it like a business, so I treat it like a business in that regard. If they want my money it'll only be given in exchange for a product that I want, not in efforts to create fear that if I don't subsidize the team then they'll move. It's either a business or it isn't, but the league makes that determination, not us. We should know more about this team and McBeane's implicit status within a few short months. We should know more about the future direction of the location of the team within the next year or so as we enter the lease-option years ending after the '22 season a mere 3-1/2 years from now. If they're going to build a new stadium we should know by the end of next year as plans and construction will need to begin. Same for a renovation.

I actually recently changed my preference to Hofmann's which are better than both. Their Jalapeno Cheddar Brat is excellent. They also have the best All-Beef.

Blank stare ... LMAO

He was WTF?!?!

Correct. The onus is on this team to prove it to us, not visa versa. 'tis the season for talk, amongst fans and otherwise.

MO I do my best to separate it from factual info, which is why I stated it like that. Either way, we'll see. If this OL isn't what it's supposed to be, if Morse stays hurt and continues to have injury issues, then I suspect others will have thought the same in hindsight. When you have a risky investment like Allen it would seem that one would go out of the way to ensure his ultimate success.

Indeed, definitely need a pass-rusher or two, particularly with Lorax at 36 and in his last season and Hughes aging with no one to backfill on the edges. Hopefully Oliver's everything that they say.

I think that they could have done more, better than they did. I think it's going to cost them. I don't think that they had the luxury of being able to go defense in round 1 this year regardless of whom they found available. I really think that they should have grabbed Dillard.

OK, we'll have to agree to disagree. I would strongly suggest that the strengths of Leinart and Young were notably greater than Allen's and that both brought much more into the NFL than Allen did by a country mile. Both played in the NC game and performed to ultimate levels therein. Allen couldn't even avoid playing the few power-5 teams that he did to the worst levels of any QB in his entire draft, drafted or not. I think that's significant. They didn't bring Allen's issues, which still aren't corrected btw, into the NFL, particularly not Leinart whom at the time many said he was one of the most "nfl ready" QBs in history. Of course many said the same thing about Peterman in his draft class a couple of years ago once again suggesting that talk is cheap. Arm-strength and athleticism, which appear to be the founding elements of McBeane's belief in Allen, are hardly what constitute franchise QBs. They're more kid-in-a-candy-shop type of characteristics that appeal to novice talent evaluators. Whether McBeane in their smarter-by-half approach, which seems to be their entire personnel theme given their drafting of the weak and wounded since they've been here as their core "improvements" to the team, pays off we'll find out soon. I'll give 'em credit, it was a very lofty goal. Whether it was wise we should find out this season coming up shortly and know in full in approximately five months time or less. The one thing that we'll have to agree on is that where Allen is by the end of the season will largely determine his future trajectory as an NFL QB. No blaming the OL or WRs again, particularly not given the lauding talk about the improvements therein.