Ronin

LOL You're missing the point entirely.

BTW, preseason has meaning, but wins are not a part of it All that matters is how one's first team looks against anything resembling first-team talent. Yesterday it was anemic on both sides for two whopping series against a 1st team, and the D was even worse against the second team while the O managed to save some face on a single drive late in the 2nd Q after Indy had 3rds in the game. Draw any conclusions that you want. It tels me that the D is no different than last year, pending three more preseason games, and that the O, while not embarrassing itself, also did nothing worthy of note. Again, I thought that, and think that, any such TD drive is good for a rookie QB, but minimally good, not "look out, here comes the next RGIII or Russell Wilson" good. Meanwhile, some are talking about the speed of the O, did anyone look at the time of possession data while the O was "on crack?" If that keeps up the D is going to be on sedatives. Things like that are important to look at, but strangely, I don't see one single mention of it anywhere in the forums, and it's a lot more important than one single drive by the O's first team against 2's and 3's much less against a bunch of players that won't even have jobs come fall, on any team. Anyway, not trying to rain on anyone's parade, nor dissuade anyone from calling me a troll since that brings some people here pleasure, but I do find it humorous and will await the commentary after next week's game and the rest of the season. If the team ends up not entertaining this year, reading the forums surely will. LOL

I hate to put a wet blanket on the party, but Tuel ain't goin' anywhere in this league. I too was impressed, ... which should have been the first sign that the game was worth even less than anyone thinks. I'm willin' to bet anything that come Nov., so many people here are going to be griping and moaning about the team for one reason or another, particularly about the play-calling, etc, the same things they're getting excited about now. I'm also curious how the D is going to look after it ranks in the top four for most plays. No, the way that those here use the word "troll" as if it applies to every breath, have this same optimism because the offense "looks faster" or the plays are better under Gailey, ... or Jauron, or whomever, anything bad is meaningless in preseason, but anything good is extrapolated and magnified 20x, but then in December those same people want to burn down the offices at OBD, fire everyone, ... as painfully as possible I might add, make sure that their home lives are ruined, etc. Honestly, it's a real hoot, it's like a bi-polar reality show.

LOL People here are so funny. In fact, if the game yesterday had sucked, then they'd all be lecturing everyone on how it was just one preseason game.

I guess that my point was not to expect too much from him in the receiving dept. Texas fans can rave all that they want to, what else would we expect them to do, but if he's so blazing fast in the NFL then he was even faster at Texas, so why didn't he log more than few hundred yards in receiving, with low ypc too, or have more than 1 TD for every 17 passes caught? Something's not adding up here. People expect that just because a player is fast that he'll be a good receiver. I am not hopeful that this was the case, which if not, then again, not sure drafting him to return kicks shouldn't have been high on the priority list. Now if he does turn into a Devon Hestor or Dante Hall, great, but consider, neither of them were good receivers, and it's unllikely that he'll turn into what they were. As to end arounds and reverses, sure, but if the team has to resort to too many of those it will likely mean that they're not capable of executing effectively in their standard offense, which won't be good. Gimmick stuff like that never makes up for fundamentals. Forget what you read about in camp. What, he had good routes against Brooks, Rogers, and McKelvin? Please. Camp is useless for evaluating anything but the basics, it's completely useless in evaluating how they'll play against starting NFL competition, particularly since we don't even have good starting NFL competition on our roster for D except for a few players. And let's not forget, Mario's got a boo-boo.

A good returner does not always make a good receiver. I'm not sure that the team's return game was that miserable such that it needed a slight upgrade. We ranked 4th in KOR avg. last season and 1st in PR avg. Keep in mind that a fantastic season for a KOR is 2 or 3 TDs, more is highly unusual. That's not the kind of production that changes games all season. Also, to assume that he's going to average 80 ypr is silly. He's got a job as a returner, but he has yet to prove, in college or pros, that he can be a 2/3 WR.

You mean the Bills' front office? I was bouncing off the walls when Wilson was still there and they took Graham. Funny, if it's good the preseason game means everything. e.g. Goodwin If it's not, then the games are meaningless. Always a hoot.

It sure was against 2nd and 3rd stringers. The Colts pulled their starters in the 1st Q. What matters is how 1st-teams match up with 1st-teams. Manuel will improve, no doubt about it, he needs time and reps, just hope they continue to give them to him. The cause for concern is the D where there were only a couple new players on the starting unit. They were terrible, even against the 2nd team and Hasselbeck, who's what now, almost 40. Yes, and they finished 26th in points allowed and 22nd in yards allowed. I saw nothing yesterday that told us to think that it will be better this season. If anything there should be more questions than answers. The Colt O has hardly any established offensive players, once Wayne came out, and he hardly played, they had none. The second preseason game is usually the one that the starters play the most, so we'll see if there are any signs of hope on the D on Friday, and then the following Thursday. After that the opponent won't field a first team for long even if we do so it won't matter. Then it's for real. Preseasons are good for bad teams from the year before to work out their issues. Good teams just try to get thru the preseason intact.

Is that an apples-to-apples comparison? Manuel did it against primarily if not entirely Colt backups. It's a bit premature to be drawing any concrete conclusions.

And maybe not. Far too many things re: the Bills have "what if's" attached to them. What if he understands that Manuel is having the defense reading issues that Draft analysts said he did at FSU and would in the NFL, and he's having to dance around that? Again, what if. If I had to guess, the short game was designed for Manuel simply getting his feet wet. They know that they're dealing w/ a rookie QB, the smartest thing that they can do is ease him into the game in the preseason games, even the last one. Could have been a very smart thing. If they had cut him loose and he had failed at his strengths, perhaps it would have worked against them. Who knows at this point and they're not going to tell you the full truth right now anyway. We'll see. If the first team O and D cannot do better against their first team counterparts however in the other preseason games, it will simply show how far they have to go to put a competitive team on the field. Friday's game is next. Let's see.

Let's see how the whole read-option thing shakes out. D's will adjust to it as they always do and it may not be the flavor of the day for much longer. As to Manuel, at least it looks like he will be starting at this point. Kolb would have to really show something at this point to get that starting nod, not to mention stay healthy. Good to have Tuel in the background, but he didn't play against a lot of players that will even be around in Sept. so who knows. We also don't know what the goals of the team were in this game. Maybe the staff, in its first live action together as a unit, had other goals as I'm sure they did, besides win the game, which happened anyway. I was concerned because the first unit D pretty much stunk and couldn't stop either Luck or Hasselbeck, who's over the hill, not to mention a cast of receiving talent that's hardly the '90s Niners. Offensively the first team O really had only one good drive, that half-ending drive against many 2nd and 3rd teamers. So not sure what to think about that, but it was good for Manuel to get that taste of a scoring drive and it's good for him to have had that despite the above fact. It's going to take this staff probably what, three or four games to get used to coaching together, get used to the NFL, etc., and I mean real games, not these. A lot of people were praising players like Alonso, but he got schooled on one play by a second-rate RB for a huge gain. He played OK for a rookie otherwise I suppose, but it was hardly as if we can pencil him in as the next Pat Willis or anything. People were even commenting on Gilmore but his name hardly got called. Could be good, maybe not. Was he shadowing his cover assignment so well that Luck/Hass had no chance? That'd be good, but that was out of the picture on TV so we don't know and I don't recall anyone saying anything. I thought it was a good game, but for these PS games who cares if they win or lose, what's important is how the first teams play against the opposing first teams, not whether our first team can beat a bunch of bubble players that won't be lined up across from them this fall. From that angle there's definitely more work to do. Manuel's gonna start the season which is a good thing at this point. He needs every rep he can get so that there's some hope next season.

Well, in the first half the first team D, not even against Indy's first team O the entire time, allowed over 200 yards of offense in one half. I guess if that's your measure than there's still work to do. If it's all about style over substance re: blitzing and speed, I 'spose they can make it look good. But if they play like that every game then they'll be near the bottom of the stack again. I'm sure that Pettine didn't pull out all the stops in this first preseason game, obviously. They're in a good position to just be able to evaluate talent at the positions and find the best starters. As usual, midway thru the season we'll know what's going on. Everyone here will either be praising the new staff, Marrone, and Pettine, or coming down on them like a ton of bricks chanting same-old same-old. It all comes down to mano-a-mano no matter what the schemes are. People are going to see what they want to see this time of year.

What's funny is that if it had been more of the same, then the roles would have been reversed. LOL Manuel needed that TD drive against the Colts' 2nd and 3rds, he needs encouragement. It's going to be a long season for him but IMO there's no doubt he'll be starting now which has to happen for next season. Some mention the speed of the WRs but it didn't show on O. STs were solid and Goodwin should be a standout STs player. Having said that, Graham performed better on KRs than Goodwin did in college. Obviously the starting D against both the Colts' O starters and backups sucked pretty bad. They can't continue to allow 400+ ypg obviously. We can talk about who made plays all we want, but yards are yards. It is only one preseason game and anytime you have non-starters matched up against starters, en masse or partially, there's always much uncertainty. It's also possible that they'll be competing w/ Jax or KC for the first overall draft pick. What's the point in even saying something like that?

ROFLMAO

That's OK, they'll spend more money on players like Mario, Anderson, Dockery, Tripplett, and Fitzpatrick. No need to be alarmed here. Besides, Nix is gone and all is well.

The offense sputtering is inevitable. Anyone with expectations of simply prepping Manuel for a run at a respectable record/performance next year is setting themself up for disappointment. Assuming that Manuel is what they/we hope, assuming that Spiller can be an above average RB in the rushing department while in a full-time role, and assuming that Woods steps up, next season might actually turn into something offensively. The defense is a different matter. Drama king needs to pull his head out of his arse, Dareus needs to move on from grieving now, several LBs have to step up, Gilmore needs to improve on last season, and they'll probably need a S after Byrd leaves not to mention another CB.

I love their photo tour. Apparently all of the rooms have white walls and everything in the room is white. While that may make it difficult to get a sense of perspective in the rooms. Either that or someone left the windows open in January during a blizzard when the pics were taken.

Bar Bill, right in the middle of town, also has fantastic wings. Among the absolute best in the B-lo region.

Depends upon which direction you're coming from. Coming from the East I usually stay in Amherst or near Exit 50 of I-90. Hamburg is good from I-90 on the Erie side. You might also want to consider south of the stadium too.

Depends upon one's perspective, doesn't it. If the perspective is from the point of view of Hughes and Sheppard, great. If it's from the point of view of the respective teams I'd say that there may be cause for concern. Both Ds sucked last year. We allowed more 1st downs than everyone but the Titans, Jags, and Saints. Indy and us were ranked 30th/31st in rushing ypc allowed as just two examples of bad D. It's not like Hughes displaced Talley or his equivalent. Indy is in a similar situation. So while it may be a new lease on life in the NFL for those two players, fans of their teams might want to be concerned that they might end up starting as it merely suggests that there's no one better. Again, all a matter of perspective. Some one is going to start in Levitre's place too, but that doesn't mean that that G will be good.

So three season from now in '15, if the Bills are 8-8 you'll have considered that a "turnaround" then? I might partially agree with you in that they'll have "turned it around" from slop and crap to mediocrity, but again, I think that depends upon one's standards. Mine are a little higher than that. They're not going to be .500 this year. If Marrone is as good as some here would have us automatically believe, then he shouldn't have any difficulty getting to 500 next season and then 10-6 or better the following. Anything short of 10-6 by 2015 to me is falling short. Anything short of 8-8 next season will be falling short. It also will likely have meant that Manuel has not worked out. And speaking of Manuel, there are some good things about him and were from the Draft, but while everyone likes to point out that he isn't Ryan Leaf because he's a nice guy that everyone gets along with and wants to see win, but he reminds me a lot of Heath Shuler. Trent Dilfer, and Rick Mirer in that way, really nice but could also very well bust like those guys. Not saying either way, I have no idea, but it's foolish to just look at one positive anti-example and ignore a bunch of others similar that never succeeded, wouldn't you say. LOL, once again hitting on some cylinders on your soft points but missing on the objective ones entirely. Tell me, what was the extent of the analysis that I ran since I did not specify? You obviously know, I'm just curious as to how. Did you hack my PC, the one that the analysis is on? Otherwise, quite right, and in terms of playoff futility, the AFCE after the Pats ranks the worst in the league during the Brady era. That easy task you can go handle yourself. Compare the playoff relevance of the Jets, Fins, and Bills to the worst three teams in any other division, and you'll see a big part of exactly what I'm talking about. Otherwise, in another part of that, put the Pats in another division and then subtract 2 wins per season and see if they still look as impressive. Honestly, am I really arguing this with you.

Great point, yes, it would. And then contrast that w/ the players that he had w/ what his predecessor had and what kind of a coach his predecessor was. Was there a worse coach in SU history than his immediate predecessor Robinson? If so, which one, because I don't see one. Isn't it quite possible that Robinson was so ridiculously bad that he took a team about as good as what Marrone "produced" from Pasqualoni, and just made it much worse? ... and then when Marrone got the team back, and finally w/ a decent QB, better than Perry Patterson (LOL) whom Pasqualoni had, and simply restored it to what it was prior to having such a vapid coach? I mean if we back up and cut out the Robinson era, do you really see a significant difference from the end of Pasqualoni's time? I don't. Have you considered that? And as long as we're talking about QBs, Robinson had Cameron Dantley in '07 and '08, had you considered that for even a moment? I'll bet that you didn't even know who Dantley was unless you're an SU fan. So what you're telling me is that w/ a QB that was drafted in the NFL, the only one since McNabb, and the only decent QB that the program has seen since McNabb's days, the best that Marrone could do was to go .500 in four seasons and barely squeak into one of if not the most irrelevant and inaugural bowls in the game in two seasons only? Again, what we're talking about here are two entirely different standards of success. For us serious fans we look for a little bit more than that. You'll figure it out too at some point more than likely.

It is deja vu all over again, which is part of the entertainment if it weren't for the trolling/persistence part of it. Those on that side are like mosquitoes on a camping trip. Again though, the even more hilarious thing will be if say, and just say for now, Marrone goes 2-14 and doesn't prove that he belongs in the NFL this season. Then at the end of the season nothing will be good enough for these same fans including the violent ouster of anyone and anything at OBD. It's bi-polar city. But hey, I guess that's what happens when one puts their "left brain" in park and let their "right brains" drive the bus. Naturally the emotional volatility is fascinating. Kind of like a forum full of women.

Anytime, ... that I have time to run them. LOL Doesn't seem so obvious to some, hence the statement that prompted it. I think many other things are "obvious" too, like some notion that turning a team into a .500 team that barely makes a bowl game is something akin to some kind of relevant "turnaround."

Sounds like you're trying to make a case for the division, if so, it doesn't get any more disingenuous.. New England has carried the division's record throughout the Brady-era. I've already taken this up with my Pats fan buddy. The AFCE has been the worst (aka easiest) division in football during the Brady era when we look at the the Bills, Jets, and Fins contrasted with the worst three teams, arbitrarily, not the same three teams each year even, rather the worst in their divisions year by year. I've demonstrated that mathematically. It should be clear to anyone that watches football regularly. A huge part of the reason why the Pats post these gawdy records, apart from leaving their key players in games late that have already been won only to allow them to get hurt, is because they pummel the weak AFCE teams. Even when Miami won the division in '08 they didn't have a strong team. Pats fans rave about how Belicheat was still 11-5, but they beat no one that season. 7 of their 11 wins were against losing teams, the other four were against 11-5 Pennington led Miami, 9-7 Jets, 9-7 Arizona, and 8-8 Denver. They lost their other to Miami and lost both to 12-4 Indy and Pit.