Ronin

So his blocking is summed up in a single play?

"Track guys just have linear speed. I have proved I have more than linear speed," Goodwin previously stated in February from the combine. "I have good hands, I run routes, I get out of my breaks. I'm tough, I have taken on hits, I've blocked. I have even got MVP for blocking in one game and I didn't even touch a ball that game. I don't think a track guy could go out there and get MVP for blocking." Where's the evidence of that in preseason or at Texas? What, he runs good routes in practice? Great, I think we've seen enough of stuff like that. Of the 35 men before Goodwin to appear on the highest level of international competition and follow that up by playing in at least one regular-season professional football game, nearly a third were in out and of the league within two years. Sure, the list includes 11 Pro Bowlers, nine All-Pros and four Hall of Famers, but the odds of Olympic success leading to similar returns from the line of scrimmage are dubious. I'd like to know who those 11 Pro Bowlers and 9 All-Pros and four Hall of Famers are. The only ones I know, and it's not that many, were on the defensive side. I can't think of one single WR that ever had such track credentials without the associated receiving credentials that went on to stardom as a WR in the NFL. Either way, what happened at Texas? Strange how they don't explain why his track abilities didn't translate to much more than a few hundred yards and a pedestrian YPR average there. Oh well, I suppose we'll find out shortly. But right now his 7.0 yard average must be deceptive. We'll see, call me a major skeptic, but I expect to see him have a career returning kicks and maybe punts. Not sure we really needed that since we finished 4th last year in KRs and 1st in PRs, but what do I know.

"Surgery complete, not ruled out for opener" Sounds like a positive update to me. Also sounds as if he's the starter if he can go.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/18/belichick-takes-a-shot-at-experts-who-have-it-all-figured-out/

You guys crack me up. If this season plays out like the rest everyone that's replied as such in this thread will be calling for the FO heads that can't draft and made this trade. Nothing like a massive overreaction to preseason. By that logic Goodwin will post 8 KRs for TDs this season too. I'm sorry, but it's so funny.

In only his second NFL game ever too. High ceiling. Kolb has slim to nil chance of starting at this point.

We've had that "confidence" for five seasons now. Remember how everyone was putting them in the playoffs just two seasons ago in 2011 under Gailey and how everyone was raving that Gailey finally had it all together when they started 3-0, 4-1, and 5-2? Bill Cowher boldly proclaimed after week 3 that the Bills were going to the Super Bowl. It doesn't get anymore "confident" than that, beating NE as one of their first three victories, etc. Emotion is something that must be paced, that's why teams overlook weaker teams when they have a biggie on their schedules the following week. That's why teams come out gangbusters one week and play the complete opposite the following. At the end of the day it all comes down to how well a team's players play against their counterparts whether they all whooped up or not. Confidence is one thing, having the emotional juice as the primary ingredient to fuel that confidence from August through December is quite another. No team has those kind of emotional resources, it's just human.

Made for media. He's hedging in case Manuel doesn't impress. Can't blame him there, any sensible coach does the same thing. They'll announce that Manuel will start the season after the next preseason game has been my thinking.

What you should be looking at is the difference between Kolb and Manuel. That was Manuel's first time trotting out onto a football field, not even at home, in the NFL. Kolb's been in the league for 6 prior seasons and has 21 NFL starts under his belt. Kolb's stats yesterday were miserable with a YPA of barely more than 4. That's Holcomb/Edwards-like. It's quite clear that Manuel has a much higher ceiling, so the only smart move is to start Manuel. Every start that Kolb gets is one less game for Manuel to play in to prepare him for next season. Believe me, I'm far from ready to annoint Manuel the Bills' best QB since Kelly at this point, but it makes no sense whatsoever to start Kolb under any circumstances besides injury to Manuel.

LOL Even funnier is that the cut targets change from w2w. Everyone's talking up Easley, but I wouldn't be suprised if he gets cut, at all. There's also a massive overreaction to the preseason, as is often the case league wide. Different teams approach preseason differently. Starting players are on record saying that they don't give 100% and merely try to get off the field without getting injured. But naturally when we play them they're all trying to do their best. This team has had something to prove for over a decade now. One of the problems with our team is that they tend to pour all their emotions into early success. Each year in recent history they come out of the gates swinging at the home opener. We're 4-1 in home openers the last five years, hardly representative of our overall performance. It's one thing to get all jacked up for six weeks, it's quite another, as some fans are brutally reminded come October every season, to get all jacked up for 17 weeks during the regular season. As to preseason, different teams approach it differently since they're in different spots. Denver and Baltimore are going to approach it differently than Buffalo and Jax will. Some coaches simply want to see how their guys to be evaluated play in mano-a-mano situations and prefer the more "vanilla" stuff as people call it, that's often why they do it in preseason, or at least part of the reason. Beating the hell outta some team's second teams with your first teams is meaningless as is beating a team that isn't trying, for any reason. Everyone's getting excited about the preseason success, but what does it say when Choice outplays Spiller, clearly the preseason doesn't mean as much as some would like it to. Having said that there have been a few positives this preseason, like Manuel's play over Kolb's. Barring catastophy in some way Manuel will get the start now, which may make season palatable and is good for the future. We're obviously not seeing this speed/deep-ball game that the staff has been raving about though, which raises questions there. This team's going to have to play 17 weeks of regular season ball, let's hope they don't lose all the wind out of their sails in Sept.., ... again.

Didn't I say that? Oh yeah, I did, that it's not an apples-to-apples comp because of that. Still, the NCG, Fiesta Bowl, and 2 Rose Bowls in four season also isn't posting two losing records and barely eking into the latest and greatest in also-ran bowls of the Pinstripe bowl digging well below the 50% mark in the caliber of schools that get invited, are they? Or do you think that a bowl game is a bowl game and the Pinstripe Bowl just as important as whichever bowl hosts the NCG? And you know this how? I suppose that you think Brady's only good because of Belicheat too then? Fair, so for what reason does Marrone have better odds of succeeding? ... other than because the forum consensus is that he will. Very fair both of you. I agree as well on the emotional side. Nevertheless, that's akin to "because I said so," wouldn't you say? Some people really want to debate the factual merits tho but some posters won't have it. Those of us wanting to do that don't understand why not.

Both are very fast by NFL standards. Avion Black ran about a tenth slower than Goodwin and had better receiving credentials in college, yet did nothing in the NFL. Speed without the accompanying football skills is meaningless at the NFL level. But allow me to ask, if he's so blazing fast, what happened at UT? I mean one would think that they'd have been lofting 60 yard TDs at the frequency that fans drink beer, wouldn't you? Or what would be the underlying reason that they did not and why a "receiver" with such incredible speed only averaged 13.1 ypc last year and only 11.4 during his entire UT career which featured only 120 catches in four seasons with his fewest, 26, last season? I mean what, Texas felt that they just didn't need the points? They'd rather use less efficient options? I'd really like to understand. I realize that many think that every player drafted is going to turn into a gem for where he was drafted, but that's been far from the reality for this team for years. The questions are fair ones, I'm just curious why Goodwin's skillset was not utilized more and more effectively at UT, particularly given that differential in speed between those defending him at that level and those that will be defending him at this level is pronounced in favor of defenders in the NFL. So what, specifically, was it that limited this tremendous talent in the receiving department at Texas then, IYO of course? Help me out here if I'm not seeing a WR that did little at UT not lighting up the NFL. As to his value in returns, there too, how come he only had one KR for a TD at UT and even that in his freshman year five seasons ago now? What limited him against players that weren't nearly as fast as those that he'll be facing now in the NFL on coverage? I fully understand that he returned a KR for a TD, but against whom on coverage? The best that Indy had to offer? I don't think so. Maybe some of those slower players in college that won't make NFL rosters anywhere? As well, can we then say that every player that's ever returned a KO for a TD in his first or second preseason game went on to stardom as such in the NFL? Lastly, did we have a problem w/ our KO and P returns last season? Because as I see it McKelvin, who can't do anything else, and Smith, ditto there seemingly, along with Rogers and Easley who also can't do anything else, had us ranked 1st in PR avg. last season and 4th in KR avg. Or am I mistaken? These are fair questions whether you like them or not sorry to inform you. I'm very curious to your or others' [serious] answers. Yes, I realize that "I'm a troll" and that "I want the team to fail," fine, yeah yeah, I get it, but I'm interested in serious answers to those questions.

For us it's all going to come down to whether or not Manuel is the QB that the front office and staff thinks he is. I know that the going notion is that Marrone turned things around at SU, but with the second best QB in SU history he managed to only be marginally competitive in that weak conference never beating anyone of consequence outside of the conference and being fortunately to have played five I-AA teams to log 5 of his 25 wins there. We all know that the single biggest factor when translating things from college to the NFL is the speed of the game. So I get nervous when our newbie coaches talk about how they're going to have the fastest team on the track. It tells me that they don't understand the game in the NFL to think that such an approach is novel and hasn't been tried when it's been tried plenty but has failed every time apart from that speed having the associated football talent. i.e., I'm talking about WRs like Holt and Bruce on the Rams contrasted with WRs like Goodwin on the Bills. The former two entered the NFL as polished WRs whereas Goodwin has no such resume. How soon we forget that Gailey said he was going to have a speed focused offense too and most of you here said that was going to be the case too. Easley, who's just as fast as Goodwin for the most part, and Graham were both signed to bring this incredible speed to the team but we have all seen how that speed rarely translates to the NFL like that. Avion Black was another guy that we drafted years ago that was probably the fastest player in Bills history. He did nothing. It concerns me when the focus is all about speed. To win in this league your players, regardless of scheme, have to out-duel their counterparts on the field, it is exactly that simple. Too many people assume that a "scheme" or system can overcome a huge talent deficit. When coaches do it then it's problematic. Also, there was nothing speed oriented about Marrone's offense at SU either. At least you're honest.

Who knows. Both are longshots as are all new coaches coming in. Philly's owner doesn't seem to mind spending money so that alone could be the difference. My biggest concerns are over Marrone's lack of big wins. He has no big wins while at SU. The Pinstripe bowl is the last bowl game invented and features schlep teams on both sides. The competition there was mediocre. The only non- Big East, MAC, or I-AA teams with winning records that Marrone's SU beat were Northwestern in '09 which finished 8-5 and unranked, and KSU in '10 and WVU last season, both in the Big 12 when SU played them both in the Pinstripe Bowl, but both finished 7-6. Kelly had bigger wins and four very meaningful bowl games in all four years, but he also had a lot more to work with, perhaps the west coast equivalent of Alabama in terms of recruiting, or close, so it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison. So many good college coaches have failed miserably in the NFL. Saban, Holtz, and Spurrier immediately come to mind. And over in Philly they're saying the same thing, ... Going by the simplest metric for success in the N.F.L.- the quality of one's quarterback- I think Kelly is more likely to have success in the league. Kolb doesn't cut it, and I don't see enough in Manuel or Tuel. I'm not saying Barkley is a guaranteed success, but I think he is more likely to be a winner than anyone on the Bills.

Man that's cynical and talk about trolling. I wasn't big on the pick, not at 16th overall, but I'm all for him starting in week one and playing all season. It's the only hope this team has for next year and beyond. Kolb hasn't nor will get it done.

That's ridiculous. It should be Kolb's to win and to win it he should have to impress the daylights out of the staff and make them think he is acapable of playing to a level that will net them a winning record. I don't see that under any circumstances. When you reach and draft a QB at 16th overall because you had to have him then you start the guy, period. Anything short of that is a short-sighted view on the future of this team. Manuel needs some reps before he ever has a chance to look good, if those reps come next season then we they've extended this "non-rebuilding" season to a rebuilding season like Levy did. I wish they'd just come clean and call it a rebuilding season and let the guy start. This whole thing about Kolb starting so that what, he can provide for us what Holcomb and Fitzpatrick did, is absurd.. The league-wide stigma for the Draft was that the team reached as it was, now they're not going to start the player that they reached for? If that happens it's open season on the intelligence of the coaching staff and FO both. That would be pure idiocy if Kolb started more than a few games. Who the hell wants to see Kolb start or play anyway. How boring. If Manuel starts I'll watch the games. We already know how things will turn out if Kolb starts plus or minus a few TDs. Let's hope that this QB starting nonsense is just a media SOP to keep them off their back so early. If they're waiting for Manuel to hit the field playing like a fully capable starter, then that may never happen.

Brady's hit 30 TDs in what, four, maybe five seasons? He ain't doin' it this season with a bunch of rookie WRs. How well the Pats' D plays without constantly being up by 20 points remains to be seen. imo they play from behind much of this season. 9-7

Who knows, they only reason Williams is getting a nod at S is because he sucks at CB. Remember after his first season how everyone talked about how great his second season at CB would be?

Yinzerland LOL

Of course Manuel should start, they drafted him 16th overall. The only people that think that he maybe shouldn't start are at OBD. As to 8 wins, I remember a couple of seasons ago when Cowher boldly stated on national TV that the Bills were going to the Super Bowl. These guys are like a carnival Zoltar, you put in a quarter and out comes a paper w/ a number of wins on it.

... or all season long. Best to rest it for two full weeks beyond when they think it's fine. That's been my experience w/ those. They always feel good at a certain point but if you try to come back too soon it comes back easily. Better to give the other WRs some reps though in his absence, it'll be good for them when he gets back. You joke, but we were warned by Texan people about Mario. He's turning into a real nancy boy.

There's lots of competition though. As you implied though, the odds of him getting the nod over Manuel are nonexistent at this point.

LOL ... every player "has potential." That's an overused cliche. Tuel did nothing impressive at WSU and won't in the NFL. He had a good game against 3's and 4's that will be on the waiver wire soon, that's all. Failed collegiate talent. If he turns into a solid backup be glad.

Let's run Kolb against UB and he'll win too. Get it?

What is this, a trick question, the answer is 53.