Ronin

It's a soft fluff piece. The same was said about Gailey. http://www.buffaloru...hift-in-buffalo Here's a funny one about Gailey doing more with less in Buffalo, ... think that's true? http://espn.go.com/d...s-buffalo-bills Time will tell, but I disagree that he's gotten the fundamentals correct, that's why the team's major issues exist, exactly for reasons of not getting the fundamentals correct. It all starts in the trenches to borrow a cliche. QB as well, but the fundamentals with Manuel are hardly straight either. Again, it can "seem" whatever it wants, we know that "BILL-ieving" only goes so far. The same things were said about Gailey early in his tenure, how the players really liked him and enjoyed playing for him and how he changed the culture, etc. That's when the whole "BILL-ieving" thing even came out. You need talent, especially at QB, and right now Manuel can't string two much less three or four quarters of throwing the ball accurately together when he's healthy, to win. You need coaches that know how to win, particularly in the NFL, and this crew hasn't come close to proving that yet. That's the problem with these fluff hit pieces, make everyone feel good but take things so far out of context so as to ignore the elephants sitting in the kitchen sink. But that's the job of the media, to prop things up early in a cycle, and then to state the obvious later in the same cycle. In 2015 we'll have a much better handle on exactly how good Marrone really is, even later next season we will. If he's really this good the same media will point out what's obvious. If he's not, they'll start talking about the obvious things that he's doing wrong. Few however will dig and look at the harder facts and take risks and put their journalistic reputations on the line by making predictions. There's always hope-and-change and BILL-ieving at the beginning of a new relationship.

Absolutely not true. Look at Brady's history in his Super Bowl games. Almost entirely short-medium passes. Even in recent years his game is short-medium. He reads Ds well. That's what's needed. In fact, the longer the throws, the less the time of possession. A short and medium passing game is so much more important.

Well, maybe teams aren't giving him that "space" anymore. I mean what does it say for a player that can only gain yards "in space?" "In space" usually means with no one around. Well don't most players, if not all of them, gain yards in space contrasted with in traffic? Of course they do. It's a cliched term that most people and media types throw out there haven't thought through what it means all the way.

Spiller's a role playing RB. He had an exceptional season last year in that role that he'll likely never match. A good chunk of it was his newness as such, teams were not expecting it and didn't really plan for it and had little film since he didn't do that in 2010 or '11. Now they have film, know what he can do, and on top of it this team in its glaring failure to realize that Spiller's merely a role-player as such, tried to make him a 3-down RB, which he's clearly not. Everyone knows that at 32 Jackson's days are numbered, and while Jackson's playing well now, he was a solid 3-down RB but will not be here in that role henceforth. He'll weary as the season goes on and as always, 32+ year-old RBs are always more susceptible to injury than when they were in their primes. Gailey knew what Spiller was. How come this staff doesn't? That's one of the numerous not good signs for them.

1. An above average QB that is capable of reading defenses well. 2. A competent coach that can make more from what he has whether he has a lot or not. Levy for example made less of what he had, as Polian once said, that was a special collection of talent that the NFL will never see again. Both Jimmy Johnson and Parcells outcoached Levy with lesser overall talent. 3. A competent front office that is capable of putting the first two along with the aforementioned talent in place. At present the Bills have none of those things.

You don't draft a player 16th overall to sit and learn. At that spot you expect them to play, either to prep for the next season in the case of QBs, or contribute right away, more often the case for D players. I'm not sure that time is what Manuel needs, he needs reps. Can he shake the problems and issues that plagued him at FSU? Right now he has the same ones with little progress. If nothing else they need to ascertain whether or not he's the long-term solution. A lot of fans' patience has run out, a while ago in many cases. You touched on a good point, this year's Draft is much more QB rich, perhaps one of the best ever. Will we participate? I doubt it, for the very reason that you cite. That's why IMO it was stupid to draft a QB in round 1 last year. But hey, OBD is full of stupid moves. Good stuff. Here's a quote from a Draft review of him: Manuel's long legs give me concern. He struggles to take the short, choppy steps that are required to move around in the pocket. He also has much better long speed than he does quickness, which hurts his ability to escape the rush and quickly scramble to pick up yards. Manuel's highlight tape contains some very impressive runs, and once he gets going he is very good at picking up yards in the open field. But his acceleration isn't great, and for being such a great athlete, his ability to avoid pressure was sorely lacking. How often does a quarterback run 40 yards in the NFL? It's a cool skill, but the greater skill, and one that Manuel doesn't seem to have, is the ability to consistently avoid pressure, avoid losing yards, and pick up first downs. More - Will Manuel run in the NFL? If so, how much? Will he do it only in the beginning? If he is close to his second contract, will he sell out for his team, or stop running and try to avoid injury? These are questions an NFL team must ask, because if he did it to Florida State, he could do it to your NFL team. And the running is so important because Manuel is really not much of an NFL prospect as a pure pocket passer. The reasons for this are many. He really doesn't have a good feel for the game. Manuel is very slow to recognize and react on the field. He doesn't recognize blitzes well, doesn't sense pressure (making it too late to use his athleticism to avoid it), is often slow to get through his reads, and struggles to read coverage in general, both pre and post-snap. More - Manuel also struggles to throw with anticipation. The next time he bangs the post route before the receiver breaks open will be the first. He is very much a rudimentary "see it, throw it" player. That doesn't work well in the NFL. In the league, certain routes demand that the ball comes out before the receiver is open or out of his break. Throwing with anticipation and the ability to quickly recognize and react to things happening on the field aren't physical tools, but rather are the power cords attached to the physical tools. Without them, the tools don't matter all that much. We've seen all of that here and it has not improved as the season has gone one giving me cause for concern.

For a 1st round pick, 16th overall, only so much patience should be required. The team should have waited until round 2 to try to get Manuel and gone another route while biding their time for this year's predictable QB bonanza, at least relatively speaking. But that's water under the dam. As to your criticisms, those are the things that the better analyses on Manuel said that explained why he was a reach at 16th overall. They are correctable, but more often than not QBs with those flaws do not correct them. Those are not "polishing up" issues, those are glaring issues. When we factor in the other thing that many Draft analysts mentioned, and what we've seen rear its head here, namely his inaccuracy issues, these are more problems than one expects from a 16th overall.

After four games our punt return and kick return averages rank 13th and 30th. Last year we finished the season ranked 1st and 4th. What are everyone's thoughts on that? Coaching? I'm trying to figure out why.

How the NFL Fleeces Taxpayers Taxpayers fund the stadiums, antitrust law doesn't apply to broadcast deals, the league enjoys nonprofit status, and Commissioner Roger Goodell makes $30 million a year. It's time to stop the public giveaways to America's richest sports league—and to the feudal lords who own its teams. Read more ... http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/how-the-nfl-fleeces-taxpayers/309448/ I know that we have discussions here from time to time on who pays for the NFL's goodies. Just another piece demonstrating that the NFL does not support itself.

Did anyone notice that the only reason why this team won yesterday is because of Fred Jackson?

Way too much emphasis on Wins/Losses. For some teams that's what matters, for us what matters is altogether something else. We are concerned with finding a viable coach and QB. We all know, or should, that this is a coach/QB league. So win or lose, that's what we should be evaluating. On a short note, if it's wins we're concerned with, consider that we won against a team that showed up flat, probably a pretty likely occurrence with teams this season as they tend to overlook us, and which had 5 INTs, largely unforced. We won by a few points and nearly lost. As to the coach, was anyone, anyone, impressed by yesterday's second half coaching performance? Manuel was horrible. His rating on the game was 48.6 and it was 148 in the first half. It must have been a few points in the second going 4 of 13 for 41 yards, 0 TDs, and 2 INTS in the second half. When was his fumble, 1st or 2nd half? 3 TOs total in a miserable performance otherwise. Spiller once again sucked and is now averaging less than 3.5 yards-per-touch this season after four games and does not have one single TD. His 2,000 yard goal now sounds like a joke. If not for Fred Jackson, who's 32 and hardly a part of the future of this team, we would not have won yesterday anyway. So in evaulating the "future" of this team, seriously, was anyone impressed? If so, why? There were not only no adjustments in the second half, it seemed as if there were anti-adjustments that fed into the Ravens' hands. Our running game averaged less than 3 yards-per-carry in the second half. Manuel was nonexistent. For as good as the D was on paper, was it our D or the Ravens' O that was the reason for "our" defensive success? I think it was both, but the Ravens looked like all they wanted to do was to get back on the bus from the moment that they arrived. Flacco throws picks and Harbaughs over on the sidelines comforting him on them. Strange day from Harbaugh. We did everything we could to lose that game in the second half, it's just that the Ravens did more as if it was a race to see who could lose the game. Either way, the future of this team, Marrone & Manuel, not to mention Hackett again, looked miserable. Pettine was aided by the Ravens' own futility. In other news, strangely, with an unknown rookie QB, Syracuse is quietly doing just as well as it was under Marrone this year with a coach that's never even coached before. All in all still not a good day for the Bills' future yesterday. Does that explain tho why Manuel can't hit the side of a barn for quarters at a time? Hardly

BRAVO! As of yet we've not seen it. I'm not the only one that got tired years ago of post-game pressers having to explain glaring buffoonery repeatedly and excuse-making, or this old "I have to take responsibility for the loss" nonsense. Who cares about responsibility, we want competence. If this staff doesn't work out then Brandon, the one directly responsible, should be fired. Not that that will fix the problem, but at least it will be a small step in the right direction. I think that the more astute fans already know how this game is going to go down. Harbaugh is one of the best coaches in the game today, he's not going to be outcoached by Marrone, Pettine, much less Hackett. Dumervil and Suggs are going to be coming fast and furious, this has the potential to slip into Rob-Johnson-ville for us.

Only one team can win, the Ravens are a better team and defending champs. If we don't come out of this game having allowed an injured Rice and struggling Pierce to tear up this money bags defensive line, and if we can manage to control one single WR since the Ravens' receiving talent after that is worse than ours, and if Manuel and Hackett can not succumb to the obvious blitz packages that will be deployed by the Ravens today then consider it a good thing. I wouldn't bet last week's trash that that happens tho. If and when it does we can reconvene and discuss what may appear to be some significant progress. Until then however the odds are firmly against it happening.

Same thing that their predecessors have had to prove since the '90s, that this team is run by people that make the most out of what they have and don't underachieve with it. Secondly, that they know WTF they're doing and demonstrate a solid understanding of the fundamentals of the game which is what makes champions. Having said that, they're already digging out of a hole. These guys come in and everyone says it can't possibly get worse, but it does get worse. Then the apologists for the debacle start making excuses for why it happens which is irrelevant 99% of the time. It's quite simple, take what you have and get more from it than most people would. A victory is not necessary because Baltimore is a better team, but how about just putting together an O and D gameplan that at least makes you look competent. So far that has not happened in preseason or through three regular season games. At least get par from what you have. They can't even do that. Many of us just don't have the patience to watch people that are making millions of dollars in one year struggle to learn to do the things that most of us know are fundamentally required for success. Brandon promised experience and competence, thus far he's delivered neither. So let's see it today! Odds of that happening I'll leave up for discussion. I want competence, plain and simple.

Here's why some of us are frustrated, because these guys are not capable of getting the job done, they're failing at the simplest of things. Stuff that are prerequisites for coaching they seem to need to learn. So what gives anyone the impression that they'll "get the job done?" That makes no sense. How about finally hiring a qualified coach, not another candidate that needs to be spit-shined with turd polish. Again, fundamentals. If we as fans understand it, then it's a terrible sign for this staff and far from too early to write them off. Also, not just three games, seven games. Sure, we discounted the preseason games by saying that they didn't count, but they were no different, so in that measure it's seven games. Either way, we're going to get toasted tomorrow by the Ravens and their pass rush.

The Jets just showed the league how to stop Hackett's offense. Anyone thinking that Manuel's not going to be facing blitzes ala Rob Johnson now is naive. Teams have seen that Manuel's accuracy on the deeper stuff is poor, they're going to throw the book at him, at least teams with decent defenses and smart DCs, and blitz the helloutta Manuel. If he can overcome that, great, but if not, his career will likely follow the same path that Rob Johnson's did. Two to three years at the expense of fans and then still without any guaranteed results. Not the kind of hire we needed or which was smart. But here's the key to that, they can't even get the simplest things right. When you take a job as an NFL head coach, or correspondingly as a coordinator, there's an expectation that you know a certain mimimum amount, but they don't. So yes, it's not too early to judge. Denying that does nothing.

LOL

People that can pick up on the notions of what I just replied, yes, they are more astute, or smart, or whatever you want to call it. I'll throw in less likely to be fooled and less gullible too. I'm far from the only one, from what I see here there are plenty of fans that can see this. But what, instead you defer to whom, people that have been categorically wrong over the years? No doubt you said similar things in years past regarding the other staffs too and those that criticized them early on. This isn't brain science, it's largely common sense. We're not talking about a coaching staff struggling with the intricacies of offenses or defenses here and mis-adjustments that lost games by a point or two. What we're talking about is a staff led by someone that couldn't even figure out that his style of offense was going to lead to a miserable time-of-possession that would hinder the team. Is that going to change? No, why should it, just because you say so? Or they say so? That's ridiculous. And what, time-of-possession is a difficult concept to manage and consider? Hardly. Any fool football fan knows that you're not going anywhere with such a lopsided time of possession. It's a tremendously trivial concept, surprised you don't realize that given your implied genius. Do you think that it's a coincidence that Chip Kelly and Marrone coach the two teams with the worst time-of-possession in the entire league, by a wide margin even? It's not even close to the 3rd worst team. There are a number of other things too that all fall into the fundamentals category. I won't bother with them since clearly your mind is closed, shuttered as if awaiting a hurricane. But what, we have coaches that don't understand the fundamentals at any level but particularly the NFL level, and you think that they're going to do what, grow into their roles and become competitive coaches overnight so that next season they can compete with the top-half coaches in this league? Who's the naive one here? It's not me and those that can see these tremendously simple, trivial, and fundamental flaws after four games of preseason and another 3 into the regular season. If you read completely, you'll see and note that I said that I was surprised by this myself. I did not expect the assessment of this new coaching staff to be able to come so soon. Yet it has. I didn't make them coach the way that they are, not not-coach the way that they are. All I'm doing is seeing a duck and calling it the duck that it is. But yes, despite your sarcasm you are in fact correct, the more intelligent, smarter, and less gullible people should easily be able to recognize this. You'll be on board too since those things are far too much for a staff to overcome to be even average in this league if they don't understand those things (some not even mentioned in this thread) now, at this point in time after years of coaching at lower levels. You'll be with the masses that get with the program after anyo other options have been exhausted, apparently. Then you and the laggers will consider yourselves on top of things. LOL Fans understand it though, the smarter ones that is. I'll leave it for you to categorize those fans as you wish, which you'll do anyway. Again, no one was expecting wins this season, and clearly with good reason, but when you have a front-4 like we have and can't even stop the run after being heralded as some kind of defensive expert, I mean honestly, you think that's a good sign for the future? Really? I don't think that Hackett has more than a few percent support, even here, in homer central. Who hired Hackett tho? Who thought that he was prepared for the task? Who thinks that running some caffeine hyped paced offense in the NFL was not going to have a significant impact on a D that isn't even very good to begin with? Does it really take someone with above-average intelligence to string that stuff together? IDK, maybe it does, but I don't think it does. Apparently so though according to you. By the way and fwiw, we're also talking about a coaching staff that had to have Manuel, but apparently failed to reconcile one of Manuel's biggest draft negatives and weaknesses by most draft pundits and analysts, namely his inaccuracy on all but shorter throws. Then, they amass speed at the WR position to pair with those inaccuracy issues, and then they scratch their little noodles as to why we have no deep passing game. Does this seem intelligent to you? It doesn't to a lot of us and hardly falls into the category of "Football for Budding Geniuses" in terms of comprehension. It's basic fundamental stuff and common sense. Yet ... Somewhere there's a major disconnect, and yeah, the more astute football viewers can easily see where it is and don't need a season's worth of observation to realize that coaches that can't even manage the simplest of things are going to have much rougher going with the more complex things.

LOL Once again, when they struggle in the fundamentals, as they are, that's an issue, period. It DOES, clearly, indicate that they're in over their heads. On top of that, we here, of all places, should be able to recognize this since it's happened to us before. Say what you want, but after it becomes even more blatant, then what, you'll consider yourself astute?

And when we all get lectured about how those at OBD are "experts" and none of us knows anything and we owe them the benefit of the doubt. LOL As if they have any benefits of the doubt left. Those went out almost with the buggy whip for these clowns.

What a deal, tix are what, $50 apiece, parking another what, $20, so for $70, maybe a little less, one can get themselves a couple of beers. For the same price they can hit a local sports bar have more than two beers and all the food that they can eat and have backup games if in the likely event the Jags ain't cuttin it. He can buy the same amount of beer in a supermarket for $5. I'm not sure I see this campaign luring even one person. Not to mention, the lawsuit may come from some PO'd fan that already had a ticket now wanting two free beers.

Strangely, one has to wonder. What does that say. Manuel has issues that need to begin to be improved upon immediately. He's got Rob Johnson's mobility and inability to scent a sack, Bledsoe's lack of ability to read D's, Fitzpatrick's accuracy on medium to deep passes. Those are things that will sink any QBs career, much more a 1st-rounder. They're also not things that you let slide for three or four seasons. We should know by week 10 whether or not he's going to improve in that way. Those are not minor issues, they're major ones. If he doesn't work this out by season's end, he'll have become a major project, not a developing QB.

We keep saying 13 years, or "since the '90s," or "since Polian," but what few people seem to realize is that the Polian years were an anomaly. Outside of them a strong case can be made that this is the most futile franchise that the league has ever seen. Meanwhile, with idiots running things, we for some reason expect lightning to strike twice and we somehow end up with another Polian when the first one was nothing more than an accident. That's like hoping and waiting for a bull to grow breasts. Pettine's had plenty of time to at least get his front 7 playing some coordinated football and they can't even stop the run, it's far worse than last season, a status that we all said would be all but impossible. Well, it's happened. We can blame the passing game on Byrd and Gilmore not being there, but there is no excuse for what's happening in the running game making all but unknown RBs look like top-10 rushers. Hackett's even worse, it's pathetic. It's almost as if he's never coached before. Apparently Buffalo is a great place for coaches to come and try their trade in a "no worries" environment. I wonder if we'll allow 1,000 yards in a game this season. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it. Well, you've synopsized the differences in two big groups of fans. One side realizes that these coaches are already and so soon in over their heads. It's obvious, they don't even get the fundamentals right and can't even improve upon last season's debacle. The other side keeps waiting for a duck to turn into a swan while telling those that can see that obvious that there's no reason to worry. LOL Deja vu. Honestly, I'll give it 6 more games before that vast majority of people familiar with this team come to the same obvious conclusion. It just takes some people longer than others to figure out what's going on. I thought that if if this coaching staff were really going to fail that it would take a good season and a half to figure that out. Man was I wrong. I don't think I've ever seen such coaching incompetence after just a few games. Meanwhile, some people just continue to overlook the tell-tale signs that were there to begin with. Of course in hindsight they'll all claim that they knew. Right PTR?

Yawn! Glad to see that you have such high standards for your team. Many have faith, they have faith that those administrating this team are incompetent and probably should be working at a McDonalds instead. No, I'm not kidding, really. This is simply the next installment of that incompetence. No one wants to really say it, but we're all waiting for Wilson to kick off so that we can see where this team is going to be after that. He's had his chances, plenty, to sell the team to people wanting to keep it here, but he's flat out refused. Meanwhile, idiocy and incompetence will just have to be the gifts that keep on giving in Buffalo. Faith? LOL In what? Morons? I don't think so. That's it exactly. The Bills have been unenjoyable to watch for at least several seasons now. Most people would rather do something else on Sundays and do, which sometimes includes watching other teams play just to remember what real pro football actually is, and this season has quickly and way too soon reached that point. Real fans don't mind struggles and challenges, as long as those running things are competent and just that, struggling. These guys are struggling, but it's not because of circumstances or newness, it's pretty obviously because they don't know what they're doing. But in this case, and yet again, we've been handed another turd sandwich with special sauce supplied by Brandon and we're all supposed to BILL-ieve again until it becomes not just normally obvious, but painfully and blatantly obvious that this coaching staff was just another poor hire. Some of us have more self-respect than that.

I think that the truly reasonable posters and the more astute ones recognize that the staff is, once again, in over their heads. The NFL is not a place for people to come to learn how to do things, it's a place where experienced and competent people succeed. Clearly Marrone and certainly not Hackett fit that mold. Reason does not make excuses, particularly excuses that most other teams have at their disposal too, and then say that things will be better once everything's perfect, nothing's ever perfect in the NFL. I was really hoping for more from this caste of coaches. I didn't figure that it would be obvious so soon that we've been sold a bill of goods by Brandon once again, the marketer in chief, but we have been. It's going to be interesting to see now how long it takes everyone to catch on as it will no doubt go in waves. That's where the real entertainment bang for the buck is, watching the posters.