Ronin

So Woods will play slot then? How are they going to use Watkins? Because most of his yardage at Clemson came on bubble screens and close to the line-of-scrimmage passes. And what, Williams is going to be our only true split WR? I don't see that anyone had much forethought before just going balls to the wall to get Watkins. If Watkins plays purely split WR then he'll be completely out of his element. If the team tries to use him like he was used at Clemson it's going to be a catastrophe. I really hope that the coaching staff, and Whaley, thought this through. Of course that's all on top of the notion that rookie WRs usually don't do much more then put up 2nd or 3rd WR numbers if even that. It's not like he's got Brady or Manning throwing to him either. I see Manuel struggling to hit 16 or 18 TDs this season if he can even stay healthy for 16 games as it is.

What's attractive to owners is how many luxury suites a team sells, and PSLs, neither of which sell well in Buffalo. By my understanding these boxes/suites typically sell for between $50K (low end) and $100K per box. A lot of stadiums have around a 100 of 'em or so plus/minus one way or the other. You can do the math, but that's somewhere on the magnitude of $10M per season. At $100 per ticket for 70K seats, about what the Ralph has, $7M in ticket sales for the season. And tix don't cost $100 ea. at the Ralph. I would imagine that if most owners could make, and sell, which obviously they can't, all luxury suites then they would. Point being, that's what's attractive to owners. Not having a team that struggles to sell their last 20K seats every season, often has to have some charitable business buy them, and a team that ranks among the worst few in failing to sellout their games.

Your primary point aside, 30 years brings us to 1984. This team was hardly a joke from the late '80s thru the mid '90s. It was an NFL force to be reckoned with. It's been a joke for the years that Polian's players didn't dominate the roster. That's when it was a joke. Oh, by the way, did I mention that our former fearless leader Ralph Wilson thought that it was a good idea to fire Polian.

Those are the ones insisting that the new coaches and GMs are on the cusp of turning things around every season and chiding anyone that thinks that just maybe we're a little bit further away from that playoff season than Brandon, Whaley, and Marrone tell us. Back then we expected to win every game but realized that we'd lose 3-5 just due to an "any given Sunday" methodology. Even as dogs we went to the games expecting upsets or watched on TV expecting an upset. We haven't had that talent since. I'll say that that team would be: 4-2 or 5-1 in the division 3-1 or 4-0 against the NFCN 3-1 or 4-0 against the NFCW and 2-0 against Cleveland and Houston. So 12-4 to 14-2 overall. That passing game was perfectly suited to today's NFL.

I'm just curious, there's a whole lot of expectation from the offense this year that I simply can't get myself to believe will happen for a wide array of reasons the least of which include a seeming over-reliance on a rookie WR to take us to the playoffs per Whaley. Nevertheless, I'm curious how this is going to break down this year. Forget the running game for now, but I'm curious what everyone sees as the numbers that Manuel and each of his primary targets among TEs and WRs. What does everything think that each will log in terms of Catches, Yards, TDs? Watkins - rookie Woods - 2nd year WR, 40, 587, 3 as a rookie Williams - 5th year WR, has averaged 54, 738, 6 Goodwin - 2nd year WR, 17, 283, 3 as a rookie Graham - 3rd year WR, has averaged 27, 341, 1-1/2 Chandler - 5-year TE, has averaged 44, 536, 5 with the Bills over the last three seasons. No other receiver on the roster currently caught over 100 yards last year. Neither Watkins nor Williams have caught a pass from Manuel yet. Help me understand how this miracle season is going to unfold since the only upgrade has been Watkins, ... please.

Interesting that you mention this. Of Manuel's starting WRs, and we'll include the below-average Williams, he's thrown a grand total of 40 completions, all to Woods. Now I like Woods as much as the next Bills fan, but so far he hasn't even proven that he'll be a perennial 1,000-yard receiver, Watkins is new on the team as is Williams. And we're expecting to "win now"? Jackson's got one foot out the door, this hype over Bryce Brown, a former 7th rounder that didn't even run the ball in college and who has done nothing significant running the ball in the NFL can't be counted on. As we all now know, Spiller's a role player. Just stating that I'm not sure I like the emperor's new set of clothes all that much. It's going to be difficult to win with that crew. An improved OL will help if in fact Cyrus is really that good right away, but putting the whole load on Watkins sounds kinda silly to me. We haven't even come close to winning with the likes of the others in years. I see major chemistry issues, at least initially, as in the first half of the season, between Manuel and his WRs.

What does he have this year? A second year coach that hasn't even proven that he belongs in the NFL, even worse for the OC in his second year, who knows if he'll get injured, Certainly there will be an injury or two along the OL (it's unusual for any OL to make it through 16 games for every starter), he has a rookie WR, a second year WR now playing without the long-time starter next to him and one that's being counted on to be the leader among the WRs yet that didn't even log 600 receiving yards last season and only had 3 TDs, I think we can count on Spiller being hurt at some point again, and Jackson's put up pedestrian numbers his last two seasons amounting to nothing more than Antowain Smith ever gave us and that's not going to improve this year. I'm not even going to mention Brown who has done absolutely nothing relevant in the NFL besides post a few good games against below average to poor defenses. Meanwhile, has anyone here actually done any research on Schwartz and Downing, our new hero QB coach? He, along with Schwartz, was fired. Here's one article on a quick google; http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2014/01/qb_coach_todd_downing_among_as.html Here are a couple of excerpts from that piece, ... before everyone shreds the writer as an idiot; Stafford seemingly was regressing under the old regime of head coach Jim Schwartz, offensive coordinator Scott Linehan and Downing. He threw 19 picks this past season and completed only 58.5 percent of his passes, his worst numbers since his rookie year. And another ... Caldwell, who replaced Schwartz this week, is known for a career of working with quarterbacks. That includes Peyton Manning, who vouched for him during the interview process. His hire is predicated on the belief he can turn around Stafford's career with his specific system. So they fired Schwartz and Downing, and brought in guys specifically to work with Stafford. I'm trying to find out why this is a ringing endorsement that some are implicitly making it out to be? Manuel is no Stafford to be sure.

Greg clearly doesn't know this organization very well.

You'd think. See my prior comment. And Thurman scored the winning TD! ... D'OH!

It's too bad that our coaches are orange and red.

LMAO Yeah, he said that Edwards was going to be a great one. I guess to his credit he never specified a great what. Maybe he did go on to become a great one at tiddlywinks or something. We're so starved for quality football in Buffalo that mere opinions like this and statements of the "talk is cheap" variety translate into 12-4 seasons for some people. It's the same crowd that needs meds come November. Talk about being bipolar.

Yeah, if we can get a G or T to play lights out ball, imagine the possibilities. Poor guy, apparently he's never heard of the Bills prior to being drafted by us. Lotsa guys have, it's just convenient memory couple with a storied history of losing that makes people forget. Like the others came here with the attitude that they just wanted to collect a paycheck and spend it all on wings at Anchor Bar.

You guys will have to define what should happen during that time. 3 years is fine to wait for a polished playoff-capable QB, but it's far from unreasonable to see progress. There was no progress with Manuel last year. In fact, two of his best games were early on. His production was lumpy, he never put a solid 4-quarter, or even 3-quarter effort together, his throws were consistently all over the map. There has to be visible progress from which one can project based upon trends. There was no such progress last year for Manuel and he'll have to show that by midseason this year or the wheels will come off the wagon. I think that this "win now" nonsense is silly. ****, I'd be happy with a .500 season and competitive ball and a 1st-rounder next year. Either way, it's pretty obvious to anyone that's looking, Manuel was Whaley's "had to have him" pick, now he's either going to sink or swim with Manuel, and the early returns aren't good. Unless he does what no rookie WR has ever done, Watkins is not going to be a factor this year. It's all going to come down to Manuel. All of it.

Does he really? He's been here for five drafts now, originally brought on as a "top personnel guy," ... what do you think? Everyone that supports him cites Nix, but the reality of it is that at worst, as Asst. GM, Whaley's been Nix's right hand man if he hasn't spearheaded the program altogether. Manuel was his choice. Many of us, including just about everyone else that isn't a Bills fan, thought that we reached and that Manuel wasn't nearly as good as Whaley clearly thought last year. He's all-in on Manuel. Watkins isn't even relevant unless Manuel starts doing things he's never done at FSU or last year. Again, what are the odds of that happening now, all of a sudden? Look at what FSU's top three receivers did with Manuel as a Sr. contrasted with Winston as a freshman, same receivers; Manuel (Sr): 1,797 and 12 TDs Winston (Fr): 3,072 and 30 TDs Granted, Winston's a phenom, but still, that's a huge leap and FSU has had talent far and away exceeding that of their competitors both of those last two seasons. Manuel's production at FSU was hardly impressive considering that. He's brought the same seemingly uncorrectable issues from college to the NFL. I think that it's pretty clear that Whaley really doesn't know what he's doing, but for the skeptics that'll clear up this season. With this draft, he's thrown the mid-term future under the bus to attempt to make himself look good, but it's not for the reasons that everyone's talking about, namely "winning now" and making the playoffs this year. This pick, make no mistake, was entirely to justify last year's pick of Manuel, which Whaley is all-in on. He took such ridiculous heat last year for that pick, Manuel did not ante up, and Whaley is on the cusp of having his pants down around his ankles if Manuel doesn't "take that next step" this year, which I view as several steps. To his credit he's stood by the pick instead of backtracking. But you simply can't reach for a QB like Manuel, then do what he did this year, which if it then fails, expect to continue to have a job. At that point you're just a gambler without brains.

From the NFL.com website, the "Negatives" on Watkins; Production results heavily from a gimmicky offense. Routes could use some more polish. Does not consistently work the middle of the field. Could improve field awareness. Is still immature and could require some time to acclimate to an NFL playbook. Could stand to improve ball security and do a better job fielding punts. These are not things that are going to help us win this year. Not to mention that precise few WRs, most not even drafted in the 1st round much less 1st WR overall, ever even log 1,000 yards. I fail to see how this is a "win now" scenario. I know, I know, he makes everyone on the team at all 21 other starting positions better. There isn't one 6' tall WR that's come out over at least the last 15 years that's even come close to doing that. Not one.

Yeah, brilliant wit. A number of these QBs rate higher than Manuel did and what, one went before 16th. Yeah, great foresight and vision our front office has. Then they think that another WR added to the others that already underachieved because of that same QB will somehow cause that QB to improve. Whatever, ... this team makes its own demise perennially.

Gee, I wonder why. But wait, everyone here has it as a great move. They must all be right since they've been saying the same thing every draft.

Whaley, like Levy, said he did it to win now. So if we post another losing season and Watkins doesn't post a ROTY type of season, Whaley needs to be held accountable and fired. This "let's hope it works out soon" mentality is what we've been running on since Polian left.

That would explain much. It's not significantly different than the one we had last year that finished us last.

I couldn't agree more. I'm truly wondering if Whaley has an IQ that's much above 100 at this point, quite seriously. IMO he just sealed his and Marrone's fates. I guess we can start looking forward to the "rebuild" in 2016.

LOL The only damage that this team is going to do this season is to the front office, Marrone, and to Wilson's legacy. It hasn't improved since last year. Keep in mind, the Bills aren't drafting by themselves, other teams are involved in the process as well. It'll take Brady's retirement before we ever "do any damage" to the Pats. The Jets have enough draft picks for two teams including three 4th rounders.

I would suggest that the longer the sale takes, the greater that chances of the team moving.

If last year is any indicator, they'll trade up/down to get whatever player they want, even if they have to reach for him. Maybe that's why they drafted Spiller at 11th back then too, not trading up, but reaching for a role player.

You may think, but this will be Whaley's first draft, so we'll see. Again, he's been here for four prior offseasons and was brought on as a player/personnel expert. Unless he's been sitting idle with absolutely no one listening to him, he shares in the miserable drafts over that time period and the selections of Spiller in the 1st, Manuel as a major reach in the 1st, and of Aaron Williams and Torell Troup both early in the 2nd, not to mention the all but complete washouts of our 3rds thru 7ths during that same time period. Let's see how this season turns out and how this and last year's drafts develop. So far Manuel, their big splash from last year, has been a bust, with only Alonso and Woods turning into anything. So you think that a guy that they had already told, and make publicly known, was going to leave the team in his role as GM following the draft last year, had full authority over that draft? Really? Please say that you don't believe that.

That's an enormous assumption. If you ask me, the writing was all over the wall that Nix was just being kept on so as to prevent him from going to another team prior to the Draft last year and knowing what we want to do, that and the team saving as much face as possible for not having ditched him immediately after the season. Who knows what was going on in the dysfunctional workings of OBD, but I got completely the opposite impression, that Nix was just being kept on for reasons of convenience, to assist in the transfer of full authority to Whaley, and so that he wouldn't talk prior to the Draft knowing what he knew. Whaley's supposed to be the personnel genius. Either way, there are posters here that truly believe that every negative player acquisition since Whaley's been here since 2010 as the Asst. GM had absolutely nothing to do with him, while every positive player acquisition that's occurred is due all but entirely to him. Also, to what extent does this team rely on its scouts, which is largely rhetorical. Some teams have much more competent GMs or others high up that ultimately make those decisions, others rely far more on their scouts, who get paid to do this work. Honestly, with the advent and development of the internet, the role of scouts has almost been neutralized. Exactly right, which IMO is why Nix was kept on, to deflect future criticism. I don't know any good reason why a team would allow a GM that they've already told will be out the door after the draft, for the most part, to have final say on anything but cleaning the restrooms at the Ralph. Let's not forget, it was public knowledge prior to the draft last year that Nix was out as GM some time imminently after the draft. LOL Have you got a link for that? Yeah, it's worked so well for us lo these past 15 years. I wish someone were in charge that knew what they were doing and "wouldn't value the others' opinions" quite as much. This is how a mod writes?