Ronin

Well then perhaps do w/o comments like "dig a little deeper" snidely stated, eh. Had you not done that this would have been a little more amiable. Otherwise, all I did was ask, deep enough. Wouldn't have happened w/o the initial challenge, right! You can't just apply that to me, particularly when it's in response. Takes two partner. Happy to dispense with all of that, really. I prefer it in fact. As you've likely noted, I respond in kind, I do my damndest to not initiate. Otherwise, what you said above is an excuse, not anything in the way of analysis. Tampa was hardly a throwing team. If you ask me, most of those other WRs would have posted similar numbers here, perhaps even outshining Watkins. There was a whole lot of talk last year about deep threat options and passing, as I see it what happened was that between Taylor's struggles as a first-time QB and the lack of players like Harvin to develop into much of anything the team relied more on its running game than it wanted to. I mean think about it, we essentially had Watkins, not even for all 16 games, Woods, and Hogan, neither of the latter helped Taylor much in his OTM struggles. Hopefully that changes this season but now we don't even have Hogan and have a whole slew of also-ran 4/5's instead. Most of those WRs listed above are not purely OTM WRs like Hogan and Woods are. They would have done much better here in a traditional split role. Any WR would have. That's where Taylor buttered his bread in the passing game. Either way, I just put up a list of 8 WRs from Watkins' draft class that posted similar or better numbers, few of which were #1 WRs AND started all 16 games AND had great QBs throwing AND had better overall offensive support structures. I didn't even bother to mention OBJ/Manning. Point being that this notion that Watkins is somehow special is only prevalent in Buffalo. I wish he were, but until further notice he's not. Particularly for a WR that was drafted for his YAC specialty. All I've entertained today is excuses as to why he hasn't played out according to his draft expectations. When he plays 16 games in a season and outshines almost all of his draft peers, particularly those in later rounds like most of the above, then we can talk about how good he is. Until then he needs to be a whole lot more consistent and offer a little bit more than a six-game string of exceptional performance. Maybe he'll do that this season, but until further notice ...

Other WRs, particularly in his draft class, have done better with comparable or less. Some of them aren't even #1 WRs. Maybe you should dig a little deeper. Seriously, you must think this team is well managed. Either way, he had Taylor last year which was better than what many others had. Robinson posted 1,200 yards last season with a 2nd year QB. Hurns as a #2 posted similar to Watkins with the same. Evans posted 1,200 with a rookie throwing the ball that played no better than Taylor, perhaps worse. Landry posted nearly 1,200 with Tannehill throwing. You think Tannehill's better than Taylor? Brandin Cooks posted over 1,100 in 13 starts in NO. Yes, with Brees, nonetheless. Willie Snead also about matched Watkins as a #2 last year in NO starting only 9 games. John Brown did about what Watkins did but in 11 starts, as a #2. Palmer throwing. He's hardly great shakes. Jordan Matthews matched Watkins too in Philly with Bradford throwing. He sucks. Is that deep enough? I'm thinking that the one that needs to dig deeper is you. That's 8 WRs from Watkins' draft class that performed comparably to or better than Watkins, some not even #1s and some in fewer starts. Not trying to incite here, but damn son, at least put together an argument that demonstrates that you understand the facts surrounding the issue up for debate. Meanwhile, people accuse me of "running" and not responding when I'm fully aware of the facts yet simply don't want to waste my precious time due to others that are clueless. If everyone would educate themselves a little prior to posting, most of these posts either wouldn't exist or would at least have some substance behind them.

BTW, he has been tremendously inconsistent in generating yards. In half of his games he's failed to hit 50. He's among the worst of the half-dozen or so best WRs in his draft class in that way. He's very inconsistent. WRs like that are not difficult to come by. He's going to really have to step it up this season if he wants to be regarded as something other than just another starting WR. You cannot live off of and have a reputation on 20% of your games played. Consistency is key. Well, OK, our FO probably will, so you'll likely be happy. As for me, I expect more for that kind of money. It fully explains why we're in the midst of a historical playoff-less streak. When you pay players like Mario "best defensive player" money, WRs like that top-5 or 10 money, Fitzpatrick huge contracts, etc., it's not difficult to see why we don't make the playoffs. There's less to spend on players that offer 16 games worth of value. And again, he "generates lots of yards" in a handful of games. He doesn't generate "lots of yards" in most games. Only 12 of 29 games were over 80 yards. Really 12 of 32 because we cannot dismiss the ones he didn't play in. If "lots of yards" is 100, not unrealistic in today's passing facilitated NFL, then we can subtract 3 from that figure for only 9 of 32. Not sure what "lots of yards" is for you, but that's not it for me.

Bubble screens have never been successful in the NFL. So why did the team draft him knowing, or at least should have known, that nearly 2/3 of his yards came from plays that are not successful in the NFL? Which fool(s) on our team's FO didn't realize that? Do you think that was a wise lack of consideration? As to whether he's worth the 5th year we'll see, but allow me to pose a hypothetical yet one entirely within the realm of possibility to you and you tell me if he'd be worth 5th year option money, which from what I've read would be top 5-10 WR money. Suppose he plays only 8 or 10 games this season and the games he plays he's hampered with injuries. Let's say that despite the current circumstances he once again hits, barely, 1,000 yards and puts up let's say 8 TDs, something I don't think will happen this season. Then let's suppose next season he has only a nagging injury or two but manages to play all 16 games and yet once again only puts up around 1,000 yards and 6-8 TDs. You gonna pay him like that? In essence he'd be a WR that will have missed approximately 15% of his games, been hampered by injuries in most of the rest, will have clearly proven to be grossly inconsistent not to mention reliably on the field, and quite frankly, mediocre in production as a #1 WR. WRs that log 1,000 yards are all but a dime a dozen and don't need to be paid top 5-10 money to acquire. Don't change the circumstances, would you pay that kind of money for such a WR? I wouldn't, I'd have planned to move on long before that. That's me tho, this team doesn't seem to have many planners much less visionaries in the FO however. And yes, I fully realize that there's a small chance that he'll ante up and post a pair of 1,500 yard, 12 TD seasons this and next year, as unlikely as that is. If that happens, then I'd agree, pay him. I'm talking about the much more likely scenario, and IMO I've been generous with the yardage figures given his performance in two seasons and his current injury status. If he could play 10 games and post 1,000 yards, or even close, that would be something given his history in the NFL.

Agreed. I'd put Glenn at the head of that list tho given the lack of quality on the right side of our line. Until Ryan figures out this D, which has been all talk to date in a "show me" world, the impact of loss of Hughes or Dareus is a mystery. I'm one of those expecting Ryan's D to trend more into the 20th - 25th ranking status that he had his Jets' D in the last four years there given last year's slide. The onus is on him to prove his skeptics wrong. The whole thing is poor planning by Whaley & Ryan. Ryan's like a kid in a candy shop for defensive players. IMO he'd draft all defense again next season in the first three rounds again if he's allowed to. Meanwhile Whaley's probably just nodding throughout the entire exercise in order to avoid being handed the check after week 17. I still can't get past four 1st-round picks, and a 4th, used on EJ "the IT Factor" Manuel, Watkins, and a player that won't even play 'til midway through his rookie season. You're clearly right, so why didn't anyone getting paid millions, particularly given Watkins soft injury status, think this through? It's rhetorical as the answer is clear, at least to me. WR should have been a priority in round 1 or 2 in a draft deep with them. And frankly, even if Watkins is fully healthy, we still don't have many viable receiving options behind him. Between Taylor's improvement and Hogan leaving IMO that's a wash whereby we would be fortunate to finish much better than the 28th we finished last season in passing. Taylor needs solid receiving options. Woods of course but he's more of a 3rd slot type guy and unless Taylor really does start throwing OTM more he may be minimized. What after him, Hankerson? It's hardly encouraging. I know that many reports have Clay stepping up, but maybe, just maybe, Clay isn't more than what he was in Miami, a 600-yard/3-6 TD TE. Not bad, but hardly great either. Until proven otherwise ...

Again, your lack of cognizance is stunning. But allow me. Since, IMO, any dunderhead that knows football would have known, fully, that bubble screens in the NFL, plays that Sammy logged 60% of his yardage on in college, which means that it was almost all after the catch since bubble screens are thrown either behind or near the LoS, simply do not work in the NFL. Yet, the draft substance on Watkins was about how he would rack up YAC. Of course many "astute" people ignored that clearly understandable info in declaring Watkins special long before he even got drafted. Unwisely naturally. Watkins has had plenty of opportunity than to do more than finish 177th in YAC. The simple fact of the matter is that the speed of the game from NCAA to NFL is the difference here. Rant as you like, all you do is offer an excuse for him. The bottom line is that Watkins isn't quite as "special" as the vast majority of poeple thought he was. Much like Spiller. Good, yes. Exceptional, hardly. Factor in the injuries and he'll be fortunate if the team pays him 5th year option money in two seasons if he can't play 32 games this and next season.

LOL Believe it or not Billz, there are other groups and people that discuss football. TSW isn't the end-all-to-be-all in Bills much less overall football discussions. I deliberately have several, three to be precise, football e-mail groups wherein we exchange ideas and actually have good solid discussions without all of the nonsense, such as your post for a prime example, and have quite excellent exchanges featuring actual information and not just adolescent like tirades from cranky geriatrics that apparently have nothing better to do than to spend a couple of hours here daily. Occasionally I'll even announce to them that I'm starting a thread. Most do not have accounts here, altho some do, one aforementioned in particular. But they do read. I must say, the reason why some don't have accounts here is exactly because of the nonsense that people can't seem to avoid posting as if anyone cares about their emotional dispositions. Carry on.

I stand corrected. I'm not as worried about Shady anyway, Watkins I'm highly worried about. I'd put money on the notion that he'll miss a signfiicant number of games outright. The point on Shady is, entirely, that while we did lead the league in rushing, Karlos provided over 500 rushing yards, which is nothing to sneeze at. Granted, most of it was in three games, but still, those three games were all wins. Without Watkins, I'll be stunned, if we finish any better than 30th in passing. Your lack of cognizance on this issue is laughable.

Uhh, I guess you're missing that he wasn't listed as having had a hammy issue during the regular season. He had a mild one in preseason, but it ended there. If not it didn't recur because the team failed to list in throughout the RS. This one is clearly worse anyway. He had a more serious injury, non-hammy, late in the season and missed what, two games.

Yes, I realize that, but last year Karlos wasn't a slob and McCoy didn't have a hammy issue. Ryan's comments on Karlos are not good nor indicative that he'll be here and that if he is he'll be able to do what he did last season. Ryan's hopeful that Karlos can merely lose enough weight, much less be in football shape, by the time the season begins. He was our top backup. He's either not going to be here or won't be in game shape, so we can't say that all of the same RBs are here, definitely not in the same circumstances that they were last season. Right? Gillislee and Herron can't be relied upon, that's proven. James Wilder Jr.? Hardly. He won't even make the team. Unless I'm missing someone we have no bona fide backup for Shady at the moment. JW is it. If Karlos works himself into game-shape by the end of September it sounds as if we'll be lucky based on Ryan's comments. This situation exists because of a lack of planning. Did we really need Jones in the 4th? It'll be a miracle if he's ever better than Manuel. And a depth DT in round 3? Seems to me that a RB or WR would have been better there. And of course in hindsight Lawson was a horrible pick, but hey, when your top scout in the matter is the coach's son, ... As I said, I'd have drafted Treadwell in round 1 and Whitehair in round 2. We'd have been much better off and not so reliant on Watkins to heal quickly and properly and our OL issues would have leapfrogged way ahead of where they are currently.

BTW, I disagree. IMO we're going to miss Hogan. Right now we don't have his equal in the WR cadre. I suspect he'll have a great season in NE and if he gets a chance to start will post Edelman like numbers. Also, we had Karlos last year, and while he's not starting material, he did lead us to a pair of wins over Miami. He was a good backup. Right now it seems a reach that he'll be ready to start the season and by the sounds of it he may have worked his way off the roster. We really don't have the luxury of being able to stockpile players on our roster with hopes for October or November. Well yeah, but that was w/o Shady having a hammy issue and with Karlos contributing heavily in a couple of games, which isn't going to be the case out of the gate anyway this season. Again, to your point about the same people being here. You know as well as I do that hammy injuries tend to linger throughout the season. Might not in his case, but that's the general tendency.

I don't think it matters. If he shows anything at all he's in. If not, then I can see him being released and us picking up a FA. Who's going to back up Shady with his tentative hammy status? Gillislee, Herron? Hardly. Karlos sounds as if he may be working his way off the team too. I realize he had a pair of bang-em-up games in his home state of FL last year and against the Fins here, but he also had 6 pretty pedestrian, at best, games. Consistency is an issue and he didn't start in college and won't here. LOL #1 Running game w/o whom? And LOL on Watkins, you know how threads diverge and devolve here. Particularly when I'm involved. I'm still having a good chuckle at bandits' expense about his using 6 games out of Watkins' 29 played to demonstrate that Watkins wasn't inconsistent.

BTW Bandit, regarding your absurd "analysis" of Sammy's consistency citing 6 of 29 games, one more thing that I've hammered on Sammy for was his lack of YAC. Here a couple of pieces substantiating that along with stats/data; http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000636124/article/deandre-hopkins-wants-to-fix-his-yac-problem http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/2015-yac "We have mentioned a few times this offseason about DeAndre Hopkins and Sammy Watkins being notoriously poor in YAC, but thanks to adjusting for where the ball was thrown, they do not bring up the very rear of our YAC+ list. Still, it's not a strength in their games, although Watkins has more potential there." According to ESPN's statistics, Watkins ranked 177th in YAC last season. Watkins was proflific in YAC at Clemson, something that analyists foolishly thought would translate well to the NFL given that most of them were on bubble-screens, plays that simply don't yield those results on any even remotely consistent basis in the NFL. But everyone knows that, right? Right? That's why Watkins was drafted for two 1st's and a 4th, for his "playmaking ability after the catch." Yet, it simply hasn't materialized. Until it does, if it ever does which I suspect it won't to that degree because the way he buttered his bread in college ain't happenin' at the NFL level despite all of the astute draft analysts failing to be able to recognize that, he will never realize the potential that he was drafted for. His other skills are simply not that over the top and he's far too inconsistent despite your cherry-picking a half dozen games to disprove his general caliber of play over two entire seasons. We haven't even mentioned in incessant injuries here. It probably doesn't matter, he'll probably make the team, what, are we going to cut him with Shady on the mend? Who would back up Shady? Gillislee, Herron? That won't work. Unless we pick someone up from waivers he'll make the team, again, for reasons of poor planning. I doubt he'll ever amount to much, but that's the lot we've crafted for ourselves, eh. I wouldn't be shocked if he gets cut if he doesn't show much tho and we go to the free agent market as a result. Hence my original concerns.

I think his court date is in August, I don't think that was a hearing, I think it was his trial, I could be wrong tho, it's in the info. But if he's convicted before the season begins I suspect that the suspension will be this season.

Might have been merged, that's my thought. Well, his DWI isn't a good sign. Perhaps he'll fight it and win, who knows. But at least one poster has said no suspension if convicted. I doubt that, he'll get suspended even if for one or two games. Either way, JW, contrary to some opinions here, was hardly a prolific rusher, he hasn't run for two seasons, and if one ventures anywhere outside of Bills forums the sentiment is the same, this is not good for his chances of making the team. The single thing that he has going for him is that the team, due to its grand shortsightedness and lack of vision over the past few seasons, has no solid options behind Shady right now if his hammy lingers. Right. I don't know how anyone can deny that. Karlos, even at his best was massively inconsistent last season posting a pair of monster games in his homestate of Florida but being relatively pedestrian at best otherwise with 6 completely lackluster games. Now he's overweight and out of condition to the extent that his coach doubts that he'll be ready by the time the season opens much less for camp. Same with Sammy, if either go out we're screwed this season. We have a dearth of talent at both positions after both of those players.

I'm back, and sorry if I'm missed a question on Watkins. I've seen almost no answers to any of the questions I've posed, at least not ones with any data to back them up. Point out where it was, but it if was as ridiculous as this one I can see why I didn't bother wasting my precious time. Here's where you need help in your reasoning; You cite my comment on Watkins' inconsistency, then you pull out a couple of pieces that address the "second half," which was really six games, of last season. Why not just pull out all of his 100-yard games and use those? Seriously, why not? Would that make sense to you to slam comments on his inconsistency? In the meantime, what about his 14 of his 29 games below 50 yards? Those don't factor into an inconsistency argument in your opinion? I don't see how any objective person can possibly take you seriously. You have essentially said that his inconsistency, over two seasons that is, is BS because if you look at his last 6 games blah-blah. OK, and if you look at his first 23 games then, he's averaged fewer than 4 catches per game, fewer than 60 yards/game, and one TD about every third game, and with only 5 100-yard gams among the 23. And you see no inconsistency issue? Well, OK. Just don't expect me to respond to any more of these types of arguments, they're a waste of my precious time. Why not just cite his games against Minny & Miami in 2014 and vs. KC, Washington, and Miami again in 2015 and be done with it. As to Lawson "contributing," my definition of "contribute," which is clearly different than yours, is to play meaningful snaps. Nowhere in that definition is there anything about excelling, "being a factor." I'm sure you'll disagree with that since most of you in this thread are clearly merely posting to "hang the messenger" as it were and because you don't care for my posts/style/whatever, so I'll nip this in the bud too. Manny Lawson was on the field last year for 701 defensive snaps. He "contributed," at least by my definition. But was he a factor? Again, not by my definition. Perhaps he was by yours, but we really don't need "factors" like that. In fact, here's what Rotoworld says, which mimics my take which you'll slam and so now no doubt Rotoworld is a useless site by your opinion; This is likely a case of a proven veteran who is slowing down and accepting a role as a rotational piece in one of the most talented defensive lines in the NFL. I don't know, but that doesn't sound like he was much of a "factor" to me. Glad he was for you. Enjoy more of it. Funny, BillsVet and I are friends and have been for years. We have good laughs at the general posting mentality here. He and I pretty much see eye-to-eye. I've even gotten several e-mails by people knowing that I'm active in this thread having a pretty good laugh, ... not at me. Monumental? LOL Did I say that anywhere? Or was my OP a general comment on the draft maybe? Think that over and look at the OP for more than a fraction of a second and see if you can't make a little bit more sense out of it. Seems to me that as a result of this DWI, JW has significantly decreased his chances of making this team. Otherwise, given Shady's injury, one that any football fan over the years recognizes as potentially problematic throughout the season, and in light of Karlos showing up like a slob and also possibly working himself off the roster if not for the poor planning of the team otherwise, JW was supposed to be an option. Either way, 1st out, 5th with issues already, our 4th a joke, our 3rd a depth-player at best although one poster took issue with me and insists that that team has said that he'll start alongside Kyle and Dareus (whatever), leaving essentially Ragland as Dragonborn10 shrewdly and accurately pointed out, unless of course you have faith in our 6th rounders, who no doubt will "be a factor" if a poll here were to be taken. LOL I mean yeah, issues with this draft so soon, I don't see any. LOL What about Lawson, Shaq that is? Do you see the circumstances surrounding his status as possibly a monumental setback? Not sure I'd quite say "monumental," but you get the point. See what happens when you take things well out of their original context. Same thing that happens when you assume. Also, horrible polemics! LOL Right, I don't include facts. Apparently you've missed quite a few posts. Seriously? To the contrary, we have people like bandit27 calling me out on suggesting that Sammy's totally inconsistent as he cites as his evidence 6 games taken from 29 played while ignoring the other 23. ROFLMAO ... you really can't make this stuff up. Meanwhile, so many responses are just like yours, not addressing the topic at all, certainly providing no data yourself, just a post out of pure emotion slamming me. That's fine, I can take it, really, actually, and oddly, I enjoy this stuff, I really do. Forums, sports forums in general, are absolutely fantastic case-studies on human nature and social media. Backs down when challenged? Really, just lurking? What was that? Looked like a post to me. Oh well, I guess it's just a hallucination.

Good post. This draft is not all about Ragland essentially, and you are correct, his skill-set is such that he is a 2-down LB. If they can turn him into more than that it'll be fortunate. Defensive players with marginal/limited pass coverage skills put themselves in that situation. What people here and elsewhere, Bills fans mostly, aren't realizing is that Ragland is essentially Brown II. In fact, look at Brown's collegiate accolades sometime (to everyone) and you'll note that they were better than Ragland's. Also, that Alabama pedigree for LBs isn't good. 'Bama is one of those teams that everyone's so good that you often can't tell which players are ready to excel at the next level because collectively they are so much better than their competition at the NCAA level. I wouldn't agree with your comments on Mario. Mario was still Mario, and in full disclosure I thought signing him when the did for what they did was idiotic. He was nowhere close to being worth "best defensive player" money, nowhere close. Having said that, he's still Mario, a seasoned vet. You don't just take a guy like Manny Lawson, for example, put him in that spot and get "at least what Mario did last season." And if all we get is what Mario gave last season, that's a hole in our D, eh.

As to Lawson, contribute how then? What, in a mediocre manner? Even if that's the case as I stated originally and have taken heat for, he won't be a factor this season. Mediocrity is not what we need. We don't even know if he's any good yet even if he didn't get hurt. I realize that this is foreign to many of you, but most draft picks, for all teams, don't work out the way that teams think that they will. We're not exempt from that. If you think we are then you're not seeing things realistically. It's also unrealistic, entirely, to consider that Lawson is going to come back in mid-October, if that's even when it happens since that's the current best-case for his return, and play as if he hadn't missed all of camp and preseason and a month and a half of the regular season. Apparently you think otherwise. As to Watkins, he's been slowed by injuries in most of his games. He's been massively inconsistent, for reasons that you may consider relevant or not, to the extent that he has had more poor games than great ones, so even if he isn't hindered with his current or future injuries he still has to step up quite a bit and even then he's one of two starting WRs. We do not have another bona fide starter at WR. As to his injury, despite the silence from OBD on the topic, all signs point to his injury as being a Jones fracture. Yeah yeah, I get the fact because the team hasn't come clean that it can't possibly be the case, just like they cleared Lawson prior to the draft, I get that. But otherwise if it is, and again, that seems to be the case given the facts of it, then he still has quite the hurdle to clear before playing and playing all season. NFL history exists on that topic. Gotta run, done being bored.

And yet, as part of the aforementioned amusement, you feel impelled to comment. Again, this is highly amusing. I'd answer that if I didn't think that the response wouldn't get lost in the Bermuda Triangle with you. Think about what I said tho, the other part of my comment. Piece the two things together, ... yes, they are related, and then see if you cannot muster enough mental wherewithal to draw a reasonable conclusion to be able to answer your own question. Frankly, I'm skeptical. OK, so you willing to make a wager that backs that up? Do you always put credence into what our FO says? What about other teams' front offices, do you believe everything that they say too? And again, so they're going to play 3 interior D-linemen then on a regular basis such that all three get starter snaps? You really believe this nonsense? Honestly, I think they could sell fans anything this time of year.

BTW, yes, let's talk looking in the mirror, shall we. The "best case" for Lawson is mid-October. And what, you expect him to hit the field in mid-season form for a vet after this? Really? IMO that's a horribly ignorant viewpoint to think that someone that will have gone what he's gone through, and a completely unproven rookie that's got no better chance of exceling than any other rookie out there in a field where it will be beating odds if even 50% of the 1st-rounders play as they're expected to, that he's going to come in and make a significant impact even remotely soon after returning after missing all of camp, preseason, and a good chunk of the regular season. Then you mention Watkins, if he makes it through this season without further injury issues that'll be a miracle in and of itself. And your suggestion that his "running sprints" is even close to the vigors of an NFL season, ... seriously? You're out of touch. You guys crack me up. This place has potential if people can ever get past the social media aspect of it. It is amusing however.

The latter part of your comment actually feeds into the thread topic more than the first. That kind of talk/thinking is unacceptable here at this time of year however. Don't ya know, all of our draft picks are gonna help us make the playoffs. You forgot to add that the average Bills' fan's sphincter has sunburn too. Let's include all of the best-case scenarios with your sunny-side up rose-colored viewpoint. I'm sure that Listenbee and Seymour will have ROTY seasons too.

It's funny, the "Debby Downer/Negative Nancy" comments always amuse me given the status for futility that this team represents. I realize that having made the playoffs last year, ... oh wait, didn't happen, ... I guess almost having made ..., oh wait, didn't happen; Ah well, at least we've improved ..., damn, we've actually lost more talent than we've gained in a proven manner. Seriously? You cannot understand how more fans than not are more critical and skeptical than optimistic? Really? Otherwise, I get the impression that you don't know what you're talking about. Big deal that Ragland cannot cover? Seriously? In a league where passing dominates, and where we have two starting ILBs, and frankly no depth there, with cover skills, you don't think for even a moment that this may end up being a liability? Again, really? As to Washington, he's a starter? Really? If I knew you better and personally I'd bet the farm that he won't crack the starting lineup the entire season. At which position do you see him starting? Otherwise, I'm looking at the three most credible sites that I know of for our depth chart, BB.com, BD, and CBSS, and two have him listed as depth with BB.com not even having the chart up yet. So where do you get this info? Which credible depth chart are you looking at that reveals him as a starter and over which current player has he been chosen as the starter? He's an interior lineman and not an edge-rusher, so it would have to be either Kyle Williams or Dareus. Since I've apparently missed it, which one of the two is he going to supplant because he's so good already? It'll be half a miracle if either Gillislee or Seymour do much besides special teams this season. Re: Lawson you sound like a team representative backtracking on the rationale for even selecting Lawson. The selection is hardly one that has made Whaley look good around the league, it certainly hasn't done much for our medical staff that originally said that he would make it through the season and then have surgery. Lawson was hardly a "known issue" for our medical staff who said the complete opposite of that he would have to miss time. He was a known issue for the rest of the league apparently. Either way, of our first five picks, the 1st is out, our 3rd is a depth player according to any credible depth chart and contrary to your claim, our 4th was among the dumbest picks ever and won't ever amount to anything much less a decent NFL QB, and our 5th now has character issues and an issue that significantly reduces his ability to make the team. This essentially leaves us with Ragland to make an impact, besides our two 6th-rounders that is, and do we really need to rehash Whaley's history with 3rd-rounders and beyond much less his 6th's? ... Arthur Moats, Danny Batten, Chris White, Dustin Hopkins, Tony Steward, Nick O'Leary. I can see how some people here seem to think that this is cause for optimism. LOL

Yeah, unfortunately for the sake of rational discussion and argumentation posts like that contribute absolutely nothing to true debate/discussion. Unfortunately they're more the rule than the exception.

Question for ya; Let's suppose, as is likely, that Williams doesn't show much in camp, certainly nothing to get excited over. Coupled with this incident, what's your take? What's your prognosis this early in a 5th-round draft pick's career whose already, seemingly, gonna have a DWI conviction? What, big things? ROTY? Future stardom? Just curious what your early odds-on take is.

Huh? JW doesn't have to do with the status of McCoy? If that's the case it's no wonder some of our fans have difficulty piecing together a holistic view of how good, or not, the team should be. There shouldn't a huge gap of incongruity in any of the original material presented. So having your first round pick get injured in non-contact drills to the extent that he needs surgery to the extent that he'll miss half the season isn't uncommon? I guess I'm missing a whole lot around the league over the years. As to JW, for a 5th round draft pick this isn't a good sign. Many fans here had/have high hopes for JW based on reactions to the Draft. Funny the difference in takes between here and more objectively by non-Bills fans at places like PFT.