Ronin

Everyone's down on Hogan, but in case no one noticed, and apparently no one has, he's already shaping up to be Brady's favorite target and has been praised for his hands and just about everything else. If anyone in the media here were talking about one of our WRs like that everyone here would be talking about how we don't even need Sammy until he gets healthy, which who knows when if ever that will even be. http://nesn.com/2016/08/chris-hogan-already-gelling-with-tom-brady-in-patriots-training-camp/ http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2016/08/tom_brady_jimmy_garoppolo_patr_1.html WR Chris Hogan (blue): Really impressive hands. That's what stood out most. Hogan held onto one ball that must have nicked a few blades of grass. Brady and Hogan looked to be in sync the entire scrimmage, as if they had been playing together for five years. Hogan's precise route running was on display on a fade to the corner of the endzone, a perfect pitch-and-catch between Brady and his new receiver. This was Hogan's first day back since he injured his shoulder on Saturday. He practiced in a red non-contact jersey. Hogan was better than most people want to admit, Roman's stubborness and lack of creativity couldn't utilize him. Neither Brady nor Garropolo seem to be having any difficulty.

Wrong! Whaley has admitted this himself, it was his pick. It's on youtube with Whaley decrying that EJ "has that 'IT' factor." Man, some people simply hate facts. This is also the reason why Whaley's still around what, four seasons after Nix is gone. No sane team would have kept EJ on this long. It amazes me how many people here insist that EJ was Nix's pick despite Whaley saying it himself and saying that he's the one that should be out of a job if EJ didn't pan out. He should have been, but hey, we're the Bills, we fire people like Polian and keep turds like Whaley around and hire the least qualified people otherwise in the most key positions thereby launching us into an era whereby we insist on setting playoff futility records. The sad part is that some fans actually support them, again, largely rooted in assessments that aren't even factually based.

What substance and well thought-out contributions. Thanks for enlightening everyone with your words of wisdom. Thanks. Reminds me of this scene; https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hkodTydUR0E#!

What, unlike the plethora of people here that throw out buzz-worded opinionated cliches sans any factual info or data besides what's spoon-fed them and think that they are. LOL He is a decent writer.

More of a question than a change, but there seems to be this notion, and not sure where it came from, that Adolphus Washington is going to play a 5 Tech as you cite. Nowhere that I've read in his draft reviews is he suited to this and he definitely has no experience there. It doesn't make much sense that a player who ran hot/cold in college will be thrown into a role into which he's never played in the NFL and be even average much less excel or be better than other options. Everything I read has him more suited playing middle, where Dareus and Kyle play, which also makes me question why he would even start other than the team being desperate in that way. (Lawson's out) His weaknesses don't shout from the mountaintops that he'll be a great DE type as a rookie. If he develops I can see it down the road maybe as early as next season if everything goes well otherwise, but not now. Who knows what the Ringling Ryan Bros. have planned for him though. But just because they say something doesn't mean it should have any validity. We learned that last season. Also, Blanton's a bit of a reach at S, but then again, Graham is no Ed Reed. Also, what happened to Jonathon Williams? Cut because of his incident? I don't see the team cutting him over Wilder Jr. or Gillislee.

The same people talking about our RB depth are the same ones that lectured us how Bryce Brown could step in and start. He sucked royally. Is he even playing after leaving us? And Brown's first season was a carbon copy of what Karlos' was.

Agreed. And it's not as if we lost to schlep coaches, Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcells, and Jimmy Johnson are legendary, arguably top-5 all-time coaches. Levy was not as good which was the difference. While he was in the lockerroom citing Hemmingway his counterparts were throwing chairs, laying out a sea of profanity, and getting their players fired up. As Polian said, that collection of players was special. Imagine what any of those coaches would have done with it. Also, they had some GOAT players too: Emmitt, LT. Irvin to a lesser extent just to name a few. You can say that repeatedly. It spoiled us. At least it spoiled me.

I think where you lose people when you post things like that is that you don't explain how/why, all you do is criticize another and by what, your mere opinion it's not so. Who's behind Shady and his ankle and hammy injury? That's a fact, not an opinion that it's Karlos, the primary one we were counting on, and Williams, our newest draftee. Right? ... or wrong? You can throw in Gillislee, Herron, and Wilder Jr. if you want, but two of those three, at least, won't make the team. Have you noticed anything about Karlos this preseason? That may sound as if I'm trying to incite you, but you talk as if there's nothing to see here re: Karlos and that he's perfectly ready to step in should McCoy falter. Same with Williams, who besides not having played in nearly two seasons already has character issues that could very well cost him a roster spot, and if not probably only because of nuklz2594's post. Otherwise, I'll ask for us both, why do you think our RB depth is so strong at the moment? Because what we see is an overweight slob that's out of favor with Ryan, a highly questionable 5th round draft pick that hasn't played and frankly wasn't prolific when he did in college, and three other stiffs. I don't see how it's even an argument that our depth is questionable at best.

I guess, and can even understand that, but having sat through the '90s era Bills games, the playoff atmosphere, how Polian managed this team, it's difficult for me to sit here and watch this buffoonery that Whaley delivers, and Ryan, and get too excited about our prospects when as I look at the team all I see is a mirror-image of teams that we've routinely made fun of over the years and have dismissed as "not going anywhere." I'm incapable of, as with many people, putting on blinders as to the realities of the team and driving forward as if they don't exist. I can understand though that some fans are content to merely go to games and watch premier players on the field, etc. I'm just not one of them. I expect success. As long as the organization takes tax dollars for financing its stadium, expectations exist. If, as with most businesses, it funds itself, then I have no right to complain. Right now however, this organization is clearly a case-study of incompetence, mismanagement, and poor overall decision-making. Attesting to this is us now all but owning both the historical as well as current playoff futility streaks. The only question remaining is what Pegula's going to do about it if that streak continues after this season with us owning both.

Really? OK, so tell us how you feel then. Since I qualified the "few games" as if the season started today and this is what we had to work with, give me your starting lineup on O and D and explain how we'll win games with it? Here are some things to consider: Whose going to catch passes since Sammy's out? Why? ... short of this could be a breakout year for [name the fifth-rate receiver]. Who's going to play the DE/OLB positions? Who are the starters on the right side of our OL? I mean I appreciate you insisting that this team is capable of winning a significant number of games with the roster as it now stands regarding injuries, but have you actually looked at it and thought it through and contrasted it with that of our opponents or even that of an average NFL roster and how we might stack up? Either way, I can be persuaded, so persuade me. I mean what am I missing, Hankerson posting a 1,200 yard, 15 TD season? Enemkpali logging 12 sacks? Our ILBs and Ss shutting down opposing OTM throws given that not one of them is deft at passing D? Help me out, help me understand why we would win more than a "few games" under those circumstances. I would suggest starting by answering those questions effectively. Many here are overly critical but then leapfrog questions that I pose as if they're irrelevant. They're questions that any true fan of this team should be asking while being critical. It's nice to ponder the notion that Jonathon Williams, Listenbee, and Hankerson are going to combine for 2,500 yards from scrimmage, but history suggests that if we can get an aggregate of 1,000 from them it'll be a good thing. Oh, but I forgot Reggie Bush possibly. Has he signed? I think I'd rather have FredEx back.

In essence, another insignificant signing of a player that has less chance of making the roster than he does of not making it. Camp fodder. Or am I off.

Say what? Who's taking us seriously this year at this point with Watkins now downgraded to hopefully ready for week 1 barring any setbacks? Of the handful of sites where there's someone optimistic about us, their analyses are all build around a sunshine, lollipops and rainbows. Which analyst worth anything out there really thinks that this team's 28th ranked passing offense from last season appears to be headed for improvement? Or hell, even our running game? Defensively we have just as much uncertainty on a unit who's big hurrah is now Ragland. Seems to me that the rest of the league looks at us as we've looked at Jax, Cleveland, or the Raiders over the last six or seven years. I mean if you were say the Jets or Fins and you had to face us would you consider us as a team that's among the better ones on your schedule? Almost all of our positives are tentatives. - Taylor: Wait and see. Hopefully he improves and doesn't digress. If he does digress, then what, besides we're screwed? Good luck with the cast of WRs he has to throw to. At least he'll have supporters that can use that as an excuse when it comes time to pay him the big bucks. - Roman's '80's and '90's era O: Let's see how the second year goes. Less talent in the passing game and Shady in worse shape than last year, I mean how can it not improve, what could possibly go wrong with defenses pressuring him with 7 and 8 man fronts daring him to force the big play with WRs that haven't totaled 1,000-yards among them in the NFL. - Rob Ryan: I'm not even sure what to say here. OBD keeps preaching it though. Again, what could possibly go wrong. - Shaq Lawson: Hopefully he'll be ready sometime in October when he'll be coming in fresh and w/o the benefit of camp or preseason and can hopefully make an impact, that is if as with Watkins all heals well and quickly. Chances of that going perfectly? - Watkins: First it was "he'll be ready for camp," with anyone suggesting that it would likely be otherwise being painted as insane and pessimistic, now it's "hopefully he'll be ready for week 1" barring any setbacks. Any takers on "no setbacks." - RG/RT are still a mystery and hopefully someone will step up a/o be healthy. - Hopefully Shady's hammy won't hinder his play. If so, then what? Karlos who's a slob and nowhere near ready? Or our newest AA candidate who seems to be doing his best to work himself out of a roster spot on top of not having even played since 2014 and frankly wasn't a game-changer then? Negatives: - Watkins and his perpetual status of unreliable when it comes to injuries. And we didn't draft Treadwell why now? Oh yeah, Ryan's son told us that Shaq was a ringer and would be fine because Shaq told him so. - Shady's "more significant than last year's" hammy injury. - Our fantastic offseason conditioning program which has produced Karlos bucking for a Jenny Craig endorsement and Both Lawsons being hurt in non-contact environments. - Not a proven starting WR on the team after Watkins, who may not be 100% all season. And what's with all the hope for Dezmin Lewis, a 7th rounder last year from a second-rate school. It makes far more sense to hope that Woods can post a 1,500 season. Woods' 2nd and 4th biggest games last year were with Manuel throwing, oddly enough. - A banged up front-7 and contact hasn't even begun. - An interior defense, meaning ILBs and Ss that can't play the pass effectively. Not as if this was known or anything as the roster was being assembled the draft being undertaken. - Rex Ryan and his never-ending mouth. - Rob Ryan his sidekick and insult to injury and kick-in-the-onions for us fans in Buffalo's jobs program hiring MO. - Dareus and Henderson both with undisclosed medical issues. Offensively this team is entirely reliant upon Taylor, Shady, and Watkins being healthy, and right now two of the three are not with no sign of when the latter two might be 100% if at all this season. Meanwhile, Taylor's tracking to take a pounding, hopefully he can avoid injury, which is not an odds-on wager given the circumstances. Even then, how will the right side of the line be. Defensively starters are dropping like flies and the contact hasn't even begun. Shaq was our big hope and now Manny who was supposed to nail down that position while Shaq healed is hurt with no timetable to return. Can Kyle Williams stay healthy at 33 stay healthy? Who's going to provide the pass-coverage OTM both medium and deep? We don't have a single safety or ILB that excels in coverage, not one, not even for passing downs. These are not good things and camp just started, they're not even in full contact yet. If this were the Browns we would be making a grand mockery of it and not taking it seriously. I don't see a big difference. If the season started today who would be in the starting lineup? What ... Offense: QB: Taylor, RB: McCoy with a dicey hamstring; Glenn, Incognito, Wood, and who, Miller and Mills? TE: Clay, WRs: Woods & who, Hankerson? Listenbee? Salas? None of whom have done anything relevant in the NFL. Defense: DE/OLBs: Hughes and who, Edwards? Enemkapli or whatever his name is? DT: What, Washington and Bryant? ILB: Brown and Ragland, neither of whom have great coverage skills. S: Williams and who, Graham? Williams? CB: Gilmore and Darby, the only position on the team besides LT/LG/C that we're completely solid at. I don't see that lineup beating too many teams. I also don't see that lineup scaring anyone. Granted, we can expect at least some players to get healthy, but when contact starts we'll have more injuries too, likely adding not subtracting to what we now have, and there's no guarantee that it won't be those that are now already injured or unable to play. If Watkins doesn't make it back at 100% we'll be lucky to even have a 1,000-yard receiver or be ranked 28th again in passing, in fact we'll be lucky to be anything but 32nd in passing. Who's going to catch the passes if he's out? This team didn't get better on paper with everyone healthy, now it's not even healthy. Why are we here? Logic and reason would suggest crappy drafting and poor management of the roster. But Whaley's doing a fine job and it's all Rex's fault. Whatever. They make it tremendously difficult to even care. At what point as fans do we get competent management, competent coaching, and a roster modeled after our '90s era roster that's capable of beating any team in the league? HINT: It's not with Whaley or Ryan around.

Those are the key core points. Others include both Lawsons getting injured in non-contact environments, Karlos is a slob, his newly drafted backup is doing his best to not make the team after a season of inactivity, on top of Watkins being injured again, he's now gone from "will be ready at the start of camp" to "hopefully ready for the season opener barring any setbacks," (who is dumb enough to wager that everything's going to go swimmingly there), not a WR worthy of note as a starter anywhere to be found otherwise. Meanwhile, a good subset of fans argue that it's not a Jones fracture but that's the only such injury that would cause such a lengthy delay in healing. Apparently 80% of our yards are going to be Taylor and Shady running the ball. Viva la Greg Roman. I see a whole lot of 7/8 man fronts this season. If the season were to start today, prior to any contact or serious play, I have no idea who could honestly predict more than a few wins. The injuries haven't even mounted yet from a contact environment. This is semi-unbelieveable except that it's us, the current record holders, and counting, for playoff futility both active as well as historical. Meanwhile, Whaley actually has fans that support him. As they say, we get what we deserve. Idiocy and incompetence beget futility.

LOL I've already done that, apparently you're having difficulty processing it mentally. No need to try to sell an elephant to someone that's insistent on buying a horse. BTW, what are you going to do for an encore if Sammy struggles this season due to injury, misses games and is less than 100% for a bunch of others, and doesn't even post 1,000 yards? You going to keep lecturing us all that he's elite? ... with a posse that claims that it's only opinion that he wasn't worth what we traded to land him?

And btw, I'm going to step out here and suggest that Watkins will miss a significant portion of the season at some point due to this foot injury and that he'll be playing injured through another portion of whatever games he does play in, thereby pushing him closer to the status of "unreliable" for this team. If you want to term it something else, and bust would be the direction that that leans in, then feel free. Sure, we'd all like to see Sammy put up 1,600 yards and 15 TDs but the odds of that happening are probably about the same as Jonathon Williams posting a 1,200 yard rushing season. Regardless, when that happens you and others will be talking about how it all came about as some sort of surprise when the writing's all over the wall currently. It was enormously remiss and stupid for this team to have all but completely ignored the WR position during the Draft and offseason. LMAO But apparently it makes the completely unsubstantiated (unlike mine) opinions of others here so. Priceless, absolutely priceless!

As long as you continue to put words in my mouth I won't bother responding. Never said Sammy was a bust, I said he's closer to being a bust than he is to being elite. This season should indicate further. If he cannot play all 16 games and/or doesn't put up well over 1,000 yards, I don't care who's throwing the ball since the other WRs that I've mentioned most don't have stellar or experienced QBs either, which apparently you've ignored the numerous times I've mentioned it, then it'll only be homers insisting that he was worth the draft picks and is even a reliable #1 WR. Othewise, everything I've said in this thread about Sammy, everything, is currently playing out. He's nowhere near ready to play at full speed yet in a contact environment. It's all but certain that he has a Jones fracture despite the notion by many here that simply because the team hasn't clarified it's not. Some people, you, believe everything that comes out of OBD. Honestly ....

ROFLMAO Oh, I have no trouble admitting that. Name for me the great Ds he lit up? Here's the problem with your entire approach, you ignore everything else that I've argued. You won't admit that in the other arguments that I've made, like that he's terrible at YAC. He's hurt again with a much more significant injury than you or anyone else here is considering and still totally unproven in a game-day environment and that if his injuries strike again the only word that's going to be used to describe him, OK, maybe two, are SOFT and BUST. Otherwise, what about the other 20 games that feed into my "inconsistency" argument, you ignore those outright as if 9 games, really 6 in which he played well, mostly against not great Ds too, set the standard while the other 20 don't matter. Typical for posters here. I've said this before so it'll probably just go in one eye and out the other and be totally lost on you, but in his other 20 games that you didn't mention, and frankly, two of the 9 you cite, he's averaged barely over 50 ypg with one TD every 2-1/2 games with only four 100-yard games in those 20. If he can play like that this season the entire season, meaning besting every WR not named Antonio Brown, then we can talk more. But I suspect that he won't even post his usual mediocre 1,000 yards, will either miss many games or not be anything close to 100% in them. If it plays out that way, anyone calling him elite is going to look ignorant. Again, if not, then let's reconvene, but right now there's more baggage hanging over him in the injury dept. than there is at the unclaimed baggage terminal at JFK airport.

Agreed. He may not even be Tannehill or Fitzpatrick. And speaking of Fitzpatrick, I might even say that the Jets now have as good if not better a chance of winning this division. Comparable D, better RBs and running game, aka more well rounded on offense, decent coach seemingly and one that split with the Pats last season in his inaugural season. I don't think that fans or the media has any idea to what extent the Pats' success have been more attributable to Brady than to Belicheat. This may be the season that we find out. As with many, I can't wait until the Pats no longer have Brady to watch Belicheat "all of a sudden" lose his coaching prowess when the fact of the matter will be that while good, he's been largely defensive in nature and overrated otherwise. It sure won't say much for him to that notion if the Pats go 1-3 or 0-4 w/o Brady.

They didn't pick up any last season. In fact Brady all but tanked down the stretch and they lost 4 of their last 6 games. Coincidence as Brady ages? Their D was mediocre to poor in four of those games. Opponents were pretty mediocre tops too with Denver featuring Osweiler. Brady's last four games he had 5 TDs, barely 1/game. He averaged 214 ypg. If Garoppolo does that they'll be lucky to win any of their first four games unless opponents tank more.

Who's the 2nd "awesome" TE? His WRs are good, hardly great. RBs average on a good day. Defense above average but hardly great. Good coaching as long as Brady's been in. We'll see this year. Again, short of a season in which the Pats had the easiest schedule in the league w/o Brady, 2008, and went 11-5 and missed the playoffs, Belicheat, even in NE with Bledsoe, in fact particularly then, has not had much success. They don't have the easiest schedule in the league again this year. Your comment about the disparity in the talent/caliber of the other teams, from coaching to rosters to QBs, makes perfect sense.

This is comical. For starters you're ignoring everything that anyone said about Watkins prior to the draft. The talk was all about how "just get Sammy the ball and he would do the rest." Has that happened? Short answer to help you along in figuring out the answer, no, he's been among the worst in YAC and ranked closer to 200th than the top. As to not having to put up elite numbers in order to be considered elite, ROFLMAO, that might be true for a Tasker type, but for WRs, I can't stop snickering. You can't possibly be serious. No wonder some of the opinions here with nonsense like that. It's funny, you're probably among those that insisted that Spiller was "special" and elite too. OJ was completely different. For starters it was a completely different era. Secondly, you haven't even mentioned injuries/health. You do realize that you're digging here, right. Go post this in an NFL forum that's not Bills and see what kind of treatment you get. Then tell me where so I can go view it. Your entire take is ridiculous. Also, you've mentioned absolutely nothing about the expectations placed on him due to what we had to give up to get him or any analysis of how several of his peers, whom I've pointed out mostly haven't even started as many games and in most cases weren't even their team's #1 WRs, have performed better and provided their teams even more, and far more consistently I might add, and yet, Watkins is leaps and bounds beyond them. LOL I gotta tell ya, this place is a never-ending source of amusement. When Watkins starts posting at least top-10 WR numbers, which still won't be enough to justify us having selected him the way we did, unless he's top-2 or 3, then let's talk more. This nonsense of Watkins being elite right now when he A, can't stay on the field without significant injuries, or on the field at all and yet TBD for this season already, and has more games of doing nothing or next-to-nothing than he does 100-yard or even big games otherwise, is absurd. He finished 22nd last year wedged in between Doug Baldwin and Gary Barnidge, a TE, and in 2014 he finished 23rd between Vincent Jackson and Edelman, none of which anyone would even approach calling elite. Until that changes Watkins is closer to being a BUST because he can't do those things than he is to being called elite. I recall, distinctly, people, for four seasons here arguing how great Spiller was when it should have been obvious that he was nothing but a role-playing RB outta the gate. Should have. Naturally the highly paid brainiacs working at OBD are clueless on those sorts of things which is why we end up with players like Maybin, Manuel, and Spiller in the 1st round and why we use two 1st-rounders to get what was essentially a WR that made a living in college on plays that simply don't work in the NFL while expecting that either A, that they would for the first time work in the NFL, or B, that Watkins would butter his bread in ways that he did not in college. Either way, not worth trading up for, and again, that should have been obvious to anyone with above average analytical skills and a knowledge of football. Too bad we don't have anyone like that at OBD or if we do they've been tucked away in some cubicle and aren't listened to.

The default is that until someone unseats them they will be, the obvious answer as most seem to agree. BUT, their D really isn't that good, particularly since Belicheat's supposed to be some defensive mastermind. It hasn't been highly-ranked in years. It's OK but cannot be relied upon. The O, depends upon to what extent you think Brady matters. Their RBs are among the worst in the league and probably only do what they do because opposing D's and DC's are 99% concerned about Brady and not about their running game. Their WRs also haven't been any great shakes since Moss was on the team, Brady simply makes them all play better than they are. There is Gronk but he's often hurt, nonetheless, the offense revolves around Brady and to a lesser extent Brady-Gronk. Their special teams also aren't great. It will be interesting to see how they play with Garappalo or however you spell his name. I suspect that the above facts will play out. Also, Brady's play clearly slowed down towards the end of last season. Coincidence? Aiding the Pats is the fact that the rest of our division sucks pretty much and at best can usually field an also-ran mediocre/.500-or-so team tops. Besides the Pats, and really since the Marino-Kelly era and even including the Pats besides Brady, our division has been cursed with crap QBs. We'll see on Taylor this year, big season for him, but otherwise. Point being, even with Brady out, the Pats would seem to be at least about as good as any other team in this division. Given the fact that they have Belicheat while we have Ryan who's all talk, the Jets have Bowles in his 2nd season, and the Fins have Gase in his first, there's no reason that even if Brady doesn't play at all this season that they won't at least contend for the division assuming that JG puts up numbers like Tannehill or Taylor. Factor in some unethical practices which few have put beyond Belicheat, and the odds favor them easily. If Brady plays 12 games they'll probably win at least 9 of those. Assuming that the Pats go 1-3 early, which team in the division is going to go 10-6 or better. Good assessment!

LOL I thought they'd be 32nd too. Funny though, Jones, Kraft, & Snyder bringing up the rear and they have no small part in it. Too bad that Brady cannot claim that any one of those four rings was cleanly gotten. As for us, I'll take 2nd every year. It'll be tough to unseat a publicly owned team.

In the meantime, according to that piece he's got voicemails of her indicating that she's going to blackmail him or the like. Doesn't sound as if he's worried at all. Probably depends upon when your draft is. LOL Would you take him w/o knowing the outcome so soon?

What? Who's "going nuclear?" The facts that are known simply don't support her. All I've done is point out prior abuses of this "trust every woman that's claimed abuse" thing. Here, in the meantime read this since you want to be strident; http://heavy.com/sports/2016/07/tiffany-thompson-ezekiel-elliott-girlfriend-domestic-abuse-charges-instagram-page/ She implies that she got those bruises when he "threw her across the room." Yet, her complaint is that she was in the driver's seat of her car when it happened and another fact indicates that one witness who was in the car at the time of the incident contradicts her claim along with two others not in the car. If you ask me she's in trouble. This entire things smacks of blackmail. They even cite that episode with Edelman and that girl that said she would post a pic of him sleeping in her bed on facebook if he didn't pay her. Extortion. Good for him that he told her to go ahead. Doesn't strike me as the kind of thing that a decent woman would want all over the web, but hey, it's a different world today. Seems as if societal milestones often involve numbers of sexual liaisons.