Ronin

And what was that QB's rating for his career? Were his first four games good ones with a "lousy QBR"? You said that QBRs were worthless, your quote. So if they're worthless then show us all a QB that had poor QBRs that was actually good. When those QBRs are or were are irrelevant. And no, I don't expect you to admit that it was a stupid statement on your part.

That's interesting. Perhaps in your infinite "wisdom" you can look up for us all a QB that would have been worthy of a 1st-round pick much less a high 1st-round pick that had a career rating that's considered to be poor. We'll await your findings.

Adopters, eh?

That's exactly right, the man's a wooden-headed fool and an imbecile.

This was evident during the off-season.

The thing that few if anyone has noticed about Shady is that of 16 games last season 11 were horrific. Only five games, and only against average to pathetic rushing Ds, did he run well. So in 11 games he didn't do anything to distinguish himself from any other mediocre RB in the league. It's simply possible, and likely, that at 30 now, he's at the end of his shelf life as a bell-cow RB. He'll always have value as a receiver out of the backfield, if Dabolls knows what that is. But even so, he won't be worth the money he's getting for that role alone. It would be unwise and unrealistic to expect him to ourperform his 29-year-old self, particularly behind a shell of last season's OL. This was entirely predictable, for anyone with vision that is. Not sure our staff has that though. He would have been better trade bait prior to the season, perhaps in exchange for a OL-man or two. At this point he's not worth much of anything. Either way, McCoy's not the "McCoy of old" and anyone thinking that isn't being realistic. And it's one more hole that'll need filling on top of a road pockmarked with potholes.

It'd be nice to see some signs that McBeane actually know what they're doing and that they're not merely the next in a long string of OJT coaching candidates for our team. Unfortunately thus far that doesn't seem to be happening. Their methodology for "building a team" is centered upon trading the farm for a QB and putting him on an island as if they have 5 or 6 seasons to prove competence. Clearly that won't be the case, in fact, it already seems that there are significant cries of no-competence from varying sources, fans and media (both regional and national) alike. It'd be nice to know what we're not on track, again, for a new HC/GM in 2020 or 2021, and particularly at a time when competence in the organization is going to be key given the stadium issue and the Pegula's now open statement that they don't have the bucks to build a shiny new stadium that the rest of the NFL owners and league insist we have. If it were up to me I'm fine with an "old-style" stadium, but unfortunately it's the NFL and the other owners that are driving that bus, not us fans. Either way, it's nice and even understandable that the place needs to be fumigated from Whaley & Co., but that still doesn't indicate competence on its own. So far the free-agent moves that McBeane have made have left a whole lot to be desired. Jones won't be on the team next season sending one of their highest draft picks packing, I wouldn't be surprised if he's cut during the season even. I expect Edmunds to be a beast and was an advocate of them taking him with the 12th overall. But same thing there, he can't be expected "to be the entire defense." Jury's out on Allen and we should know more soon, but for our top five original draft picks, ranging from 1st/12th overall, to 3rd/65th overall (1st pick in the 3rd round), we netted Allen/Edmunds. That's it, in a year when there was a PRIME opportunity to rebuild the entire OL by drafting say 3 OL-men with those 5 picks. They they talked about sitting Allen for the season. WTF? Obviously that's not going to happen now, just sayin', if that was even an option, ... Why not just build the OL and draft a QB next year. OK, great, we get it, Allen's "their guy," so much so that they felt the need to neglect the OL, DL, LBs, WRs, etc. and go all-in on Allen. That's fine, no problem here, but if that methodology fails, then they should not be rewarded with being allowed to run the team henceforth and make further risky draft moves like that. Secondly, Frasier's going to be out as this season's scapegoat, and frankly, the rankings of the D, despite false perceptions, were on par with the offense last season when Dennison was appropriately fired. Frankly, he never should have been hired, he's never been good. Neither has Frasier. Daboll? Seriously? He's worse than both in NFL track-record. So those decisions too must be factored in, and right now they reek of incompetence and in Daboll's case, more Friends-&-Family hiring practices. We'll see where they end up. Last season we won 9 games for no other reasons than because of TO margins in our favor. We outplayed only a couple of teams all season. The Browns had better game performance metrics than we did except for TOs. That's anything but a sustainable model for winning games and cannot be relied upon from season to season.

I don't think either of 'em will be on the team next season and I wouldn't be surprised if Jones is cut during this season. It's too bad that Jones "isn't skilled enough" to catch more than about every 4th ball thrown his way as one of the worst receivers in the entire NFL in that way. I'm happy for him that he knows where to line up playing any WR spot, but that's only the start. In other news, after they release KB I'm curious which other WR currently on the Panthers' roster we'll sign to replace him. I think it's Beane's goal to make us the Buffalo Panthers.

Then you have to out-execute the defenders trying to get you to do the same. When those defenders are better on average mano-a-mano than your players, ... As Kgun implies, could be Daboll.

That's what happens when you hire a buddy that you've know since you were 20 years old. Anyone that even remotely believed that Daboll was the best man for the job is naive/gullible.

Yes, that's the picture that has developed here. It's a question of methodologies and there is no winning position here demonstrating that McBeane are not completely overwhelmed and have planned poorly. Some say that Allen's going to be ruined by the lack of offense and protection around him. Who knows, he may also simply not be as good as billed. We'll see. Obviously we're all pulling for the kid. But either way, they can't put it on "no offense around him" and a "poor OL" because they had a fantastic opportunity to put a very good OL in place with the four picks ranging from mid-1st to first-pick in the 3rd (all day 1/2 picks) and draft a QB (or Rudolph) next year. They opted not to and decided that a QB on an island was a better and more efficient way to build the team. I don't get that either. Any fool knows that teams are built from the lines outward. The fact that they don't speaks volumes. Then on top of it, to be collecting all of these not-quite-starting-material vets in free-agency, to start, well, at some point there's only one conclusion to be drawn, namely what you stated.

Here's the thing, with this draft this year McBeane had a once-in-what (20-year?) opportunity to build the core of their team. ' They originally had 6 draft picks in the first three rounds, the 96th of which (last pick in the 3rd) on Phillips. That means that the other five picks, mid-1st to 3rd/65th (1st pick in the 3rd) that they used on Allen & Edmunds. Edmunds could have been gotten with the 12th pick meaning that in essence Allen cost the organization the other four picks. Regardless of what thinks of Allen, or whether he does/doesn't work out, building a team in that way signifies a GM/HC that are novice/kid-in-a-candy-shop/OJT. They could have built the OL in order to build a foundation, for any QB. Any. Instead, they opted for the far riskier "their guy" option. Well this just in, they could have Rodgers back there and he'd be operating at a fraction of what he's capable of due to the lack of a quality team around him. Does McBeane really need to have this explained to them? I don't know, maybe they do. It's not the method that I would have chosen and not a method from whence championship play/teams comes from. But it's what they chose which IMO speaks volumes. Some are talking about 10 picks in next year's draft, but the team only has one pick each in rounds 1-3. Teams aren't built oni 4th-7th rounders in that way. The opportunity to have lain a foundation in spades was this Draft, and they opted not to. They aren't going to have 5 or 6 seasons to prove that they've OJT'd themselves into competence. They're going to sink or swim now on Allen. I'm not sure I'd want my future career hinging on a QB that has no OL, no WRs, a RB with one foot out-the-door, an overrated defense, and no reasonably possible way to build all of that within two more seasons given how they squandered their opportunity this year. Their "gambit" is Allen. But only a fool would wager everything on a QB w/o really any of the core pieces in place otherwise in order to build a winning team. The on top of that, signing players like Lotolelei to enormous contract when not one metrics site had him rated as anything other than below-average, and why, because McBeane come from Carolina and they know better than everyone else? Fumigating the place from Whaley is necessary, but the moves they're making are hardly career-endorsing moves. Like all GMs/HCs, they'll have three seasons to "prove themselves." I have absolutely no idea how putting the pieces in place, particularly with the bar of a playoff "appearance" now being the backdrop, is even possible. The fans and media are already getting impatient as the buffoonery continues. This isn't going to end well for them despite how well Allen turns out. And frankly, it's fine that Allen's "their guy," but unless he turns out to be everything they claim he is, then given their other moves, they're not good coach & GM, because the rest of their moves collectively are below-average.

You hit the nail right on the head Augie! We were entirely outcoached. Parcells, Gibbs, & Johnson all outcoached us. Some of that evidence can clearly be seen in how the Cowboys came out of the locker room contrasted with how our Bills emerged. They came out fist-pumping, Bruce came out walking, looking at the field, helmet in hand. While those guys were in the locker room strategizing and throwing chairs (literally), Marv was (literally) reading Hemmingway quotes. Swap coaches and we have 3 championships. Marv was a good but not a great coach. He was clearly bested in all four SBs. That Giants SB shouldn't even have been close, we easily had the better team, particularly on offense. Having said that, to the OP, I don't ever recall thinking to myself that I didn't want us to go back to another SB nor do I recall any Bills fan at the time expressing such nonsense.

LMAO OK, well either way, we see how it worked out. All the talk on the pick at the time was whether or not we reached, and we did, at least in hindsight. Anyone that did any real homework on Manuel knew he wasn't going to amount to much. I know, I know, no one could have known. That's the difference between me, the "resident troll" and you and your nonsense. There are indicators, but if you close your eyes to them, well, then they aren't indicators. Fans here and our FO are great eye-closers. Either way, it was Whaley's pick, which I notice you didn't address, and he failed miserably with it. Or are you now insisting that Manuel is anything but someone with one foot out of this league as a QB? Please say yes. Correct. Which would tie TT to this team regardless of whether or not he starts or whatever his circumstances are. Do you think he signed something like that? I don't know, perhaps he did, but as I see it, he'd have to be a fool to do that. So do you, are you insisting, without formal knowledge of the situation, that he did that? If not, back off.

You're so far ahead of most here. Don't expect any intelligent responses. Some here think that a WR that averaged fewer than 12 ypc in college isn't a slot receiver, or if not, that he's above average on the outside. This is the problem with sports talk in our country, all one has to do is utter some buzzwords and they think they come across as posting intelligently. There is little if any depth to most discussions.

I know.

LOL Yeah, that's what we need, a backup QB in round 4 or 5.

On this board I don't think that the average poster is even capable of being able to distinguish from facts vice opinions. Really. I can't tell you the number of times,, even recently, where people have posted things factually, that are not facts at all and which if they'd bothered to look them up prior to posting, perhaps at the expense of 30, 60, or 90 seconds, then they wouldn't have come across that way. Then they'll argue some tangential argument that has little bearing on the initial argument in a vain attempt to salvage some semblance of intelligence and credibility. For example, Whaley's on video record owning the Manuel pick, he even states that EJ has the "IT factor," Yet, numerous people here still insist that it was Nix's pick. Let's keep in mind that for that draft Nix had already been informed that he was going to be replaced at some point in the near future with Whaley. And people are dense enough to think that a team would let an essentially ex-GM conduct a draft for a team that he would not be the GM of after it. There are numerous other examples too such as someone recently posting as fact that Roman's offenses in SF were all top-10, 4th ranked in fact in three years. It only takes a few clicks to refute that, or conversely verify it. I guess that's way too much work for some. Much easier simply to say what's on your mind with impunity and conviction as if they're factual despite any basis for them or not as if we're on the Oprah Show.

Really? You truly envision no scenario now that minimizes the Bills selecting a QB in next year's draft? Seriously? Again, let's see what the contract is first and then discuss more. PM me, not trying to avoid you, but I really don't need to read most of these inane speculative posts. It's a waste of time. In short tho, the only type of contract that would not hinder us from drafting a QB would be one that's backloaded or almost entirely incentives. Again, who knows at this point w/o the details, but if the team got a contract like that from TT more power to them, I'll be the first to congruatulate the FO for a change. OTOH I'd have to think that TT's not that stupid to obligate himself for 6 seasons possibly for peanuts or some insignificant sum at the team's (this team especially) will, while taking himself out of play otherwise throughout his prime years. Do you think he did that? I don't. I know I know, all the brainiacs here think he did, and who knows, perhaps he was that stupid.

LOL Particularly here, again, and here it's incessantly the sunshine/rainbows/& lollipops take. Then when reality hits its people slamming one another on who's been wrong when, etc. Kinda like kindergarden, 'cept different.

And you and everyone else would be insisting that just because it's filet mignon it must be Kobe beef. Absolutely classic statement in a response to me demonstrating the sheer lack of wit by the person attempting to wittingly slam me; Comparing a cut of beef to a type of cattle.

That would seem strange to me. If Taylor's convinced that he'll be better, why would he sign a deal like that? Either way, I envision no scenario now whereby Taylor sees his play diminish and we draft a QB in round 1. Can't wait to see the numbers on this, but I have a feeling that the fans' "interpretation" of what's been said and reality are two different things. This place is the most sunshine-rainbows-and-lollipops of any Bills forums out there. It would have been wise, not that our FO is, to have at least seen how TT performed for 5 or 6 games before giving him a contract that in all likelihood prevents us from moving on a QB in a draft next year that should have several worthy of selecting, including Chad Kelly.

Let's suppose they did that, how much confidence do you have that he'll make it thru the season intact? You really need to think some more prior to posting. Consider that a constructive criticism. I'm not saying where or where not Woods did or will line up, what I've said is that he's a classic slot WR. He's not a classic split WR type. He isn't. Now, if that's true about him not playing slot last year, why do you think that might be? Seriously, don't read further yet, stop and think for a moment or a few moments, and consider our team, and then figure out why that may have been. .......... It was because Hogan is a classic slot WR too, probably even more so than Woods. Hogan played slot frequently and was just as effective, particularly with Taylor throwing vice Manuel. After that we had Harvin who rode the bench more than he was on the field and useful. After that we had junk as WRs. Come on. If what you said about Woods is true, that he can play all over the field, then he sure hasn't shown us much with 600 yards per season. Far more can and should be expected from even above average WRs that can play any position.

You need to go back and look at that draft and in particular what they were saying about Manuel. The consensus was that we reached for a QB that was a 2nd to 4th rounder. Some even had him 5th or 6th. He turned out to be a bust because he was drafted way too high. If we had drafted him in round 3 or 4, or hell, even 2, it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal. You have leap frogged my point tho, altho not untypical for you, that Manuel was a poor pick. You can add all the reasons and excuses, but he was a poor pick and thus far Whaley's taken hardly any practical heat for it. And yes, it was his pick, he himself has made this perfectly clear and you can go listen to him anytime. In fact, he boldly proclaims that EJ had "the IT factor." Do you agree, did EJ have "the IT factor?" Most people atune to the draft thought that was laughable. I don't know what's in your memory banks, but it's not reality.

Uhh, OK. Remind me never to respond to you again. In fact, there must be a bozo filter here somewhere, you've prompted me to look for it.