billykaykay
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Posts posted by billykaykay
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With #1 picks, people on this board are quick to label them either busts or they defend them as if it was their own draft pick. In my opinion, G seems to be pretty average. He is decent in coverage but we are quick to gripe when he gets beat. ALL db's get beat - they just have to keep it at a minimum.It was probably an option route. Is Gilmore supposed to just stop as if he knows the WR is running a comeback? If he does that, the WR runs right by him for a probable TD. But I get it, he is a 1st rd pick, and us Buffalo fans don't like 1st rd picks because they are not blue collar enough.
On those 3rd & 16s, is he told to play soft or is he afraid to get a penalty if he breathes on the WR? Go Bills.
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On Monday night, BB chose to run 3 plays at the end of the game & then punt to the Jets. With Brady , one might think that a completed pass would salt it. Is BB a genius (he won) or was he just lucky that Gino could only get them so far.I agree about that particular play- there is no explanation for it and it is football 101. That being said, I feel that since Marrone took over, there have been far fewer "are you absolutely f'n kidding me" head scratchers than there were under the last several regimes. I feel like if you watched any other team as closely as you watch the Bills, once or twice a season every team makes egregious coaching blunders, with the exception of maybe a select few.
I don't like BB, but I think that I would have done the same thing with Gino as the other QB.
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Why is the rule such that if the QB throws the ball away while outside the pocket, it is not IG ? Why not allow the QB to throw it away while in the pocket, as long as it travels past the line of scrimmage ? Why does their have to be a receiver near by?http://static.nfl.co...Pass_Fumble.pdf
Section 2. Intentional Grounding
RULE 8, SECTION 2, ARTICLE 1
Article 1 Definition. It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a pass that lands in the direction and the vicinity of an originally eligible receiver.
Item 1: Passer or Ball Outside Tackle Position. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, who is outside, or has been outside, the tackle position throws a forward pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including when the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or endline). If the ball crosses the line of scrimmage (extended) beyond the sideline, there is no intentional grounding. If a loose ball leaves the area bordered by the tackles, this area no longer exists; if the ball is recovered, all intentional grounding rules apply as if the passer is outside this area.
Item 2: Physical Contact. Intentional grounding should not be called if:
(a) the passer initiates his passing motion toward an eligible receiver and then is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the pass to land in an area that is not in the direction and vicinity of an eligible receiver; or
(b) the passer is out of the pocket, and his passing motion is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the ball to land short of the line of scrimmage.
Item 3: Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.
Item 4: Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s).
OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 42RULE 8, SECTION 3, ARTICLE 1
Penalty: For intentional grounding: (a) loss of down and 10 yards from the previous spot; or (b) loss of down at the spot of the foul; or © if the passer is in his end zone when the ball is thrown, it is a safety. See 4-7-1 for actions to conserve time
inside one minute of either half.
Note: If the foul occurs less than 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage, but more than half the distance to the goal line, the ball is to be placed at the spot of the pass.
A.R. 8.27 A.R. 8.28 A.R. 8.29
Second-and-20 on A4. A quarterback drops back into his end zone. Just before he is tackled in his end zone, he throws the ball into the ground directly in front of him. A defensive player falls on it. Ruling: Intentional grounding. Safety. Second-and-10 on A30. Quarterback A1 throws the ball forward as he stands in the pocket on the A16 to keep from being tackled. The ball lands at the A35 with no eligible receiver in the area.
Ruling: Loss of down at spot of foul as quarterback is more than 10 yards behind the line. Third-and-24 on A16. Second-and-10 on B20. Quarterback deliberately throws the ball out of bounds to stop the game clock. Ruling: The pass was not thrown away to prevent loss of yardage. A’s ball third-and-10 on B20.
I guess what I am saying is that a QB ought to be allowed to throw the ball away if he wishes as long as he doesn't make a travesty of the game by throwing it at his own feet when under pressure.
For another thread I know, but they could pretty much get rid of spiking the ball by adopting the college rule of stopping the clock after 1st downs. If the league is really interested in "fantastic finishes", which I know they are, this would be a common sense rule change.
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Isn't he a freshman?Quarterback from ECU. He looks very good, strong in the pocket, good leader, accurate, and doesn't make many mistakes. He is putting ECU on the map right now. I would love to get him in the 2nd if he falls to us. Let him develop behind Orton for a bit and then we can see what he can do. Thoughts?
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A little more than a half century."Gronk & Brady make mince meat out of ALL teams. I guess they should all fire their coaches."
No...actually, they don't. Not this year anyways.
"I would guess that if I went into all the team chat rooms after a loss, they would be griping about the play calling."
I would also guess that to be mostly true but...You're ok with the play calling? Seriously?...How long have you been watching this team?
As Marv said - when it works, it was the right call. I just don't believe in jumping on the bad coach bandwagon after every loss.
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What evidence do you have that he isn't just that - a mediocre QB? He certainly is not a bum, but why the love for a guy who has been very ordinary?Wait...... are you presenting FACTS ??? I tried that for a few years here. Doesn't work.
If we have the cap space I would bring the guy in for sure. Idle money is stupid when you have a multibillionaire owner and an aggressive GM.
For those of you who don't like the idea of signing Bradford, let me ask you, what if we had the salary room to do it and you had the choice to either bring him in or just have the money sitting in the bank doing nothing. What is your answer then?
My pet peeve is when people say someone is too expensive but they have no idea what type of creative salary structure an athlete is willing to take nor do they understand how much room we have to spend?
If you don't understand those two things (i don't), how can you say no? How? There are NO playoffs for teams with mediocre qb's people. None.
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Who did he take out of the game in the KC game ?Sort of agree, sort of disagree. What the Pats do is gameplan to minimize the other team's strengths, and exploit the other team's weaknesses. What the All-22 analysis reflects is that the Bills' coaches did not utilize this (blatantly obvious) strategy. And it's maddening. Yes there were "plays to be made." But you know what? Take Gronk out of the game and make LaFell beat you. If Brandon LaFell beats you, well, they made the plays, good for them. But if Gronk beats you (over and over again like a spiked club), you've failed in your coaching approach. I can GUARANTEE you that Bill Belichick would've taken Gronk out of the game and made Brandon LaFell beat him, if he was on our sideline.
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Gronk & Brady make mince meat out of ALL teams. I guess they should all fire their coaches.I believe that the point Jeremy was trying to make is that whenever Gronk lined up wide, we "played man-to-man with one safety (that was no help) every time". "Every time" is the operative phrase, we tried the same method against him, every time, with exactly the same results. Now that may have been our "game plan", but when it was abundantly clear that the "plan" wasn't working something different should have been tried. That's what I meant by poor coaching, the "game plan" may have been to expect that Revis would "shut down" Watkins so we'll just use him as a decoy, but when it became evident during the game that Revis could not actually "shut him down" he should have been targeted. The failure to adjust one's "game plan" to fit in game realities is one of the hallmarks of bad coaching. Another is not letting the players that you have, do what they do best. This is why every game this season we will see a lightweight runningback with world class speed and elusiveness being handed the ball 5 yds behind the LOS in an attempt to run it straight ahead into the defensive line 6 to 12 times each game. Seriously...We need better coaching.
I would guess that if I went into all the team chat rooms after a loss, they would be griping about the play calling.this is well said, it hits my frustrations exactly . . . change things up when it is nott working. As a matter of fact, sometimes you need to just change things to change them, so the opposition can't get in a grove.
It is so exasperating watching the offensive plays calls—and really, so predictable. And while Schwartz has done some really good things, against a good team like NE, you have to blitz once in a while. Uuuggggghhhh!!!!!
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I usually agree with you, Kirby, but Bradford is overrated. There is no evidence that he is a franchise QB to be desired. He is an accurate passer. That's about it. He also always seems to be injured. Just because a QB gets taken early doesn't make him a franchise QB. He just may have been a reach by the Rams. He is a decent QB - just not as good as some make him out to be.I think that you are pretty much right on Baumer. I have been saying for weeks that I think Sam Bradford will be the QB of this team next year and Orton backing him up (slash playing when he inevitably gets hurt). They may draft a QB but I think that it will be a mid round guy with lots of upside but flaws. I don't see them interested in an Aaron Murray type that is really solid with minimal upside. They will be looking for a Logan Thomas type kid that may turn into a home run. This team is ready to win now and they aren't going to lose a couple of years developing a rookie starter.
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Despite what they say, they have already given up on EJ.See, that was my problem with the Orton move originally. Orton was way worse than EJ at similar stages at their careers. But he improved. I don't want a guy who is basically older and average stunting the growth of a young QB.
I've accepted this year and hope EJ can benefit from it. But to not draft a guy or give up EJ because of Kyle Orton is just running in place. Part of the reason we didn't draft Russell Wilson is because we needed more weapons for Fitz. That didn't work out so good.
He wasn't demoted. The injured starting QB returned & reclaimed the job.i understand what we are doing -- the thread is about him being the long term answer though, so i am discussing him in that role, not as a short term stop gap (where ive for years stuck up for guys like him having value)
as to the 3rd string thing - i was just underscoring that as a qb that went 10-5 as a rookie, clearly his play wasnt what youd expect as a 10-5 record to reflect or he wouldnt have been demoted. A lot of people have pointed to that year as him getting it done (it is his best W-L season, afterall) but he was the lowest rated starting qb in the league that year.
im not trying to shred the guy, just saying realistic expectations are probably that hes in the 16-24 range of starting qbs any given week/year.
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Great observation. Hadn't thought of that, but O throws a nice long ball. Perhaps, we begin to get those 30 yd penalties.I doubt he can keep up with a very good offensive team. I can see him MAYBE winning a Wildcard game, but no more. I hope I'm wrong.
He hasn't been a starter since the league clamped down on DB's though. Maybe that will benefit his game in unforeseen ways. Just having the balls to make a throw goes a long way these days. It's like you are twice as likely to get a PI, but you gotta throw it first, or you'll never get a call.
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Brady might be the only one to fit your definition of long term. Four or five years is a lifetime in the NFL>I could see him being the QB for the next handful of seasons, as we figure out a QB to develop, but that's not "long term" to me. I feel like "long term" is a guy you get as a rookie and retires on your team...
Oh, also, regarding Fitz/Orton...
If the 2011-2012 Bills had our current defense, I think they would have made the playoffs. So as long as we keep a strong defense, we can get by with an inconsistent "average" QB, while we figure out a young QB to develop (whether it be EJ or someone else).
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As a rookie, he started when the starting QB went down for the year. He, as a rookie, led the Bears to the playoffs. The following year, the job was given back to the starter.That brings up so many questions to be honest......
- So many teams have moved on from him to a draft pick
- So many teams draft pick ended up not being as good as Orton
- QBs dont hang around in the league if they cant play
BUT
- Why do teams keep moving on from him in the past?
Is it possible that he has just found the perfect fit? I feel like teams too often have leaned on him instead of biulding up teams around him.
In Denver, I remember his having a very good year - throwing deep to Brandon LLoyd. They were a terrific combination that year.
He eventually succumbed to the irrational fans screaming for Tebow & getting their way when mgmt started Tebow over him.
Orton is a damn good QB. He is no Brady, Manning etc. If we don't run him out of town after a bad game, he will prove to be a serviceable QB that is capable of taking a decent team to the playoffs. Just my opinion.
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I'd say you should almost always defer. If you defer, you receive in the 3rd quarter & go against the wind, but you get the wind in the 4th Q. If you are ahead in the 4th, the other team may have to pass & they will be passing into the wind - an obvious disadvantage. If we are behind in the 4th Q & have to pass, we will be passing with the wind at our back.Hey fellow bills fans,
New to the forums but have enjoyed reading your thoughts on here, so I thought it's time to start conversing with you all from time to time!
What did you think of the decision to receive at the beginning of the game? I wasn't too thrilled with it. Maybe Marrone was trying to send a message, like lets get Orton going right away, but our first drives have been 3 and out so many times its frustrating. .I think we need to play to our strength. Let the d get out there, cause some havoc, win the field position battle and then the O start rolling.
Still worried about Hackett, I really worry that his playcalling is going to cost us a few games. I feel the last 2 games his game plan has been playing more to the other teams strengths then their weaknesses.
But it's going to be a great week and look forward to Sunday., I underestimated the pats and likewise overestimated the bungles. But we have the d to knock the pats around, I hope it's really loud at the ralph!
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Right on. The casual fan might like a lot of offense, but many of us enjoy good defensive play just as much. If it weren't for FF &/or gambling, viewership would be down.It starts with these off-season meetings where the competition committee decides how they're going to tweak the game. It's all geared towards more offense =more fan excitement = more viewers = more advertising/more swag sold/more concessions.
ALL EQUALING more $ to the owners.
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Marrone had a good game. However, there were a couple of spots that I would have challenged. Also, at the end of the half with 9 seconds on the clock, I think that he should have accepted the penalty & give it a shot from midfield. Long shot but still a shot. There wasn't enough time for Detroit if our pass failed. All in all, good coaching all around.Can't believe how dumb Hackett and Marrone are
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And also - play calling & the OC.imo, every fan base, with very few exceptions, complains about their QB. This year that includes Brady and Brees.
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Didn't Fitz make less money with Tennessee than he would have with Bflo?Why should he "re-structure" his contract? I know what I'd do if my boss told me we still want you to work here, only for less money.
Besides, cap room was not an issue.
Dougs blew it.
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Why isn't he "long term" ? Orton is 31. QB's can play well into their late 30's. Orton, if he does well, could be playing for the Bills 5-7 years. In pro football, that would probably be considered long term.It's a philosophical difference of opinion of where this team is at. I don't think this team is ready to compete for a title. Could Orton be better in the short term, sure but does anyone here really see him leading us to the super bowl?
Ej has looked dreadful at times and we are 2-2. Maybe he isn't the answer but pulling the plug on him now we will never know. Orton isn't long term, we have no #1 and now we have to start the whole thing over again searching for the next heir to Jim Kelly.
Marrone wants to win now and I get that but is Orton so much better than EJ that you bail now? I just didn't think so. Growing on the job in the nfl isn't easy. No excuses he has to get better but you can't from the sidelines. It feels like we wasted that pick now based on the fact so few of these guys ever make it back after they've been benched.
Bills fan so I'll root for Orton to be successful for as long as he's the starter, I just think they gave up too fast on a young Quarterback.
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What the heck has Bradford ever done?But if that happens Bills will have the flexibility of having Bradford rest an additional year, because Orton is signed through 2015, and have a full on competition in 2016 between EJ & Bradford.
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I think that Orton will be rusty. He needs a game under his belt after no camp; no preseason; and having played just one(1) game over the past year. After the one game, he will be an upgrade. Lets hope that it translates to wins.This is why you should be drooling to see what happens over the next few games. I know I am. I have no idea if Orton will be any good, but I'm confident we'll be seeing the ball in the hands of our playmakers more than ever. With the defense playing like it is, even 1 TD more per game could be enough to win two or three games we otherwise shouldn't.
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agree.So they have to abandon the game plan because he was incapable of executing it? A better plan would be to play someone more capable of getting the job done. That's what they did.
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Yes to each & every one of them.Yes. The Jets would start him if they drafted him. So would Miami, Cleveland, Oakland, and St Louis.
Or would you prefer Geno Smith, Ryan Tannehill, Bryan Hoyer, Derek Carr, or Shaun Hill over EJ?
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I think that Orton QB'd the Bears to the playoffs as a rookie.I don't think Orton can lead a team to the Super Bowl, but, if he has grasped the offense, he'll be an upgrade over an imploding EJ -- I think they can go 8-8 or 9-7 with Orton, maybe get lucky and sneak into playoffs --- if EJ plays like he did the past 2 weeks -- this team is destined for 4-12 or 5-11 --
Kyle Orton Haters
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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