rstencel

Agree that Leonard little, donte stallworth killed a human which is a worse crime, but it wasn't like it was a planned crime. Especially with Donte, since he did sleep and thought he had the booze out of his system, and tried to make things right. Anyone could have accidentally hit someone, but very few people would have pulled the stuff that Vick did. I think the planned criminal organization with cover run over long period of time is a worse crime, because it hurt more people and put allot of money into hands of other criminals as well who most likely used that money for much worse crimes. Ray is different story and agree with you some what in that case. People that commits crimes like that should not be allow to be in positions like that I do not believe, but as long as people continue to support them they will be allowed to be. I have also chosen never to watch a game or support a team that Ray Lewis plays on, and have not watched any game that he or Vick have participated in, and have boycotted the corporate sponsors of both teams they have played for since they have come back. Does that make Vick a bad sign for Bills, I don't know. I hope they don't sign him, and don't think he is a good enough QB to overcome the drop off in physical talent that usually hits athletes when they hit 30. If they do sign him, I think they will be sorry both from economical standpoint, as he will become the face of the franchise, and in the win loss column, since think his best days are way behind him. He never was a great passer, or great at reading defences, but could hit the home run and was fastest player on the field most of the time. If he hasn't already, it is likely the speed and big play with feet ability are on decline. He was out of football for most of 3 years and on bench for most of last year, so he has some playing to do just to get back to the level he was at reading defences and feel for the pocket. He was injured almost every year he played due to his style of play, so likely will not make it through the year if he becomes a starter again. With all those negatives I don't think he is worth the loss of face and potential loss of fan base that would come with the signing. Yes the Eagles didn't take much of a hit, but he wasn't their starter or face of their franchise like would be if came here and was actually able to win the starting job.

Its allot more than the dogs. He ran a interstate illegal operation for multiple years. Created and ran a cover business to hide the crimes. Placed illegal bets. Lied to the the face of both his employer and the commissioner when caught. Plus its not like he didn't have a history of shady activity before that with things like the bottle with hidden compartment with traces of drugs, and the whole Ron Mexico thing. Sure he most likely didn't kill any human beings, but he planned these crimes and carried them out over a long period of time. I agree that he has served some time for the crimes, and he has a right to move on with his life. But I do not think it should be in the NFL, and I will not support or spend money on any team that employees someone like him. Personal choice yes, but its allot more than letting dogs fight each other or torturing and killing the animals in my opinion.

A player worth #9 pick for trade is probably going to have or want a huge contract. Think building through the draft, hopefully with someone worth #9 pick, would be the best choice financially most likely, and gives best chance to build a team for long haul. Only way wouldn't mind trading that pick for a player is if get a pick back lower in first, and the player we get is signed for at least 3 years. Wouldn't mind seeing them trade for someone like Troy Smith, but don't think that would take more than a 3rd, and possibly a swap of 5th rounders. Wouldn't be upset with McNabb, but think he would cost too much, and not sure how much longer he is going to play. Doubt Eagles would trade him anyway.

Funny how most of people thought he wasnt much more then a cheerleader while here, but he is not an upgrade from Kelsay, since he is a DT and Kelsay is a DE.

Philly isn't a small city, and they did take a hit, but they have a large enough market, and a strong enough fan base to absorb it. They also didn't put him the position to be the symbol of their franchise, since they have McNabb in that position. He would be the starting QB most likely and the face of the franchise if he came here. I know personally I turned off any game, including playoffs when Philly was involved, and stopped using any product from any of their corporate sponsors, so I may be the extreme.

Allot of the people on the anti Vick side wouldn't be on the board to have the discussion, so no doubt would many of us on the board anymore. If they went 11-5 with him, they would do it without my support, and I would never watch one of the games, and if they made it to the Superbowl with Vick at QB, I wouldn't watch that either. I highly doubt that they win more than 5 games if they bring Vick on board now, as allot of teams relearned how to defend a running QB due to the Wildcats popularity, so do not think he will be as effective as he used to be. Plus he never was much of a pure QB, and cant see the long layoff improving that part of his game. Its possible he gained humility and is more willing to put the time in the tape room now, but I doubt it.

Having potential but not being ready to play is kind of what practice squad was made for. Yes he probably will never be nothing more than a descent backup, but he may develop into a very good player 2 or 3 years from now. Doesn't mean we don't bring in someone better to play while waiting, but doesn't mean we should give up on him yet either. I agree that we need to do something. From everything that has been said about the subject, it sounds like Nix agrees that QB play needs to be improved significantly in order for this team to take the next step. I haven't seen anyone suggest that he is ready to start yet, or should be starting, the discussion was who do they keep when they bring in someone else to start. I think you take the guy with potential that isn't ready yet, or hasn't had the opportunity yet, over they guy that has already had the chance, but failed for the 3rd qb spot myself. Between the 3 you decide who is the better number 2 between Fitz and Trent and cut the other and keep Brohm as the number 3, because he represents the most upside of the 3. Its is possible that they feel Fitz is best number 2 and Trent has more upside than Brohm of course, but think Brohm ends up winning the number 3 spot unless they draft a mid round QB and pick up a veteran as well.

Your probably right about the one on the outs. Considering he has had the most chances, if they don't think he can start, he is probably the one that will be sent packing. Brohm has potential, and I think Fitz has no problem being a backup at this point in his career, and has showed enough in bad conditions to stick around I think. I am more of a fan of Trent than Fitz, but think Fitz makes the better backup for this team, as Trent hasn't shown he can be the guy, and hasn't played well in bad weather yet. I doubt they bring in Vick honestly. I dont think Buffalo would be Vicks first choice, and doubt a team run by a public relations guru makes this move. As far as who they do bring in, I am thinking someone like Troy Smith from Ravens if they want someone for furture, or Kerry Collins if they are going to try and win now.

I'll be right there with you, except for the posting on youtube part.

I don't think Bruce went out with the intention of driving drunk. Vick wasn't just going to dog fights, he was running a criminal organization around dogfighting and running a front company to hide it. If he thought dog fighting was OK, and not a big deal he wouldn't have gone through the trouble of running the front company, and he would have come clean when first caught, to his employers, I believe. I doubt anyone is a saint, but most reasonable people wouldn't got to that extreme in breaking the law. I don't think cheating is a good thing, or excusable, but cheating isn't putting money into criminals pockets, or funding other criminal that were running the competing kennels with money for bets. The cheaters probably didn't pay other criminals to help him commit those crimes. Now a long time cheater is a different story, but Vick did this for a very long time, and probably still would be if not caught. Its not like this was his only indiscretion either, remember the whole ron mexico thing, which pretty much trumps the cheaters crime if he really did spread a VD without notifying his partner.

I agree with you, just mentioned him getting reps at LT incase Bell doesnt continue to develope or gets hurt, and to push him, if we don't draft another option. Although think what they need depends on what defense they decide to run, but LB has to be high on list. If they decide to go back to 3-4 we need a whole new D-line, since or DE's are too small for a 3-4. Stroud would most likely be better fit at DE in that defense but we don't really have anyone else for NT. DE's need to be able to occupy double teams, and ours are smaller shoot the gaps or run around end types. If they do switch see at least one DL in first 3 rounds and probably 2 more in lower rounds. Unless a steal drops at LT or they really love some one, I think they put off drafting a LT high till next year hoping that Bell develops further if they do any sort of dramatic scheme switch on defensive side.

If you just want to discuss it on football skills, yes he has allot of talent. However he never was great at reading defenses even when he was starting qb and played year after year all the way through highschool and college. He was never the most accurate with the football either. Now he sat out pretty much 3 years and sat on the bench for another. Odds are he will be even worse at reading defense. He has rested his legs so while he probably has lost a step, he probably prolonged his playing years a bit health wise, but its not like he typically makes it through a year healthy anyways. The team would have to change the offense to take advantage of a slash type QB, rather than a pocket passer, so if he were to go down, they would most likely struggle heavily, and considering he most likely lost a step and speed is his main skill, he will get hit even more than he was. I don't see him being able to pick up where he left off, since he relied more on his athletic ability than on QB skills, and even if he does, he probably wont make it through a season healthy. He only has a couple of years left most likely due to hitting 30, which is typically where RB's and people who rely on athletic ability primary usually start drop off in production rather quickly. Even just looking at football standpoint, think if they are going to trade for a QB, I would look at McNabb (if think can win now) or Kobb (if building for future) way before Vick.

This is still a business, and the Bills need money to be competitive. If they bring in someone like this, a lot the so called wah wah people are going to take their support and money to other forms of entertainment. Remember the Bills are run by a public relations person primarily, so highly doubt he is going to take a chance on a player with marginal QB skills in exchange for losing support of portion of their fan base. And for the record, I do find him to be one of the worst offenders of the legal system of any player has done while still wearing a uniform. He ran a criminal organization, placed bets illegally, ran a cover company to hide the illegal activity, operated that company across state lines, and even after being caught lied to the face of his employer and the commissioner about the crimes he committed. While not as bad as murder, every thing he did was premeditated and occurred over a very long period of time. I don't think it takes a whole lot of intelligence to understand image does have an potential impact on income.

Its a small market team that hasn't had a winning season in a while. Their president is a public relations specialist who has been making every effort to increase the fan base. Do you think he would sign off on bringing someone like this on board? Even if only loose 10 percent of fan base over a bone head move like this, would kill them. And i think you need to put your response into perspective, it was a whole lot more than killing a few dogs.

He did allot more illegal than killing a few dogs. Running a criminal organization that crossed state boarders, illegal gambling, running a cover organization, and lying to his employers repeated even after being caught for a few. I personally couldn't think of a worse choice, and am totally against it. If the Bills sign him, it would be the last thing would ever have to do with the team.

I am still hopeful that Bell can become a descent starting tackle. If he continues his bulking up this off-season, and has a good training camp with plenty of reps this year in camp, think he has the potential to be a good tackle. He didn't get enough reps and was thrown to the wolves this year, so don't really blame him as much as the poor planing that caused the situation honestly. That being said, giving reps to Levitre and having them fight it out if Bell doesn't start strong in camp is a good idea anyway, as he seemed to have the best year of anyone on the current roster at LT this year.

I do not think this is a bad hire. Yes there were higher profile coaches, but think he is type that uses the players he has to best of their abilities, rather than molding players into his system, even if they don't fit. I really didn't want Cower like most, since when he was in Pittsburgh he often disrespected both the Buffalo players and the area. Not that think he is a bad coach, just didn't like allot of the things he said in radio interviews in Buffalo area early in his career. He also is a 3-4 guy and think we would have had to dump half our players and start over building the team again to fit his systems. Of the other experienced coaches out there, Marty is only other one think would have worked with what we have and built from there, rather than gutting and starting over. May being too optimistic here, but think that he could be a good rebuilding coach. Do not think he will take us to any super bowls during his reign, but do think he can turn them into a consistent play-off type team, with some good drafting. This is assuming that they sign a good defensive coordinator of course, whose system takes advantage of the personnel already on the team.

Was with you till the sign Vick line. First off, he is under contract next year, so would have to trade for him. 2nd, his time away took away what little skill he had at reading defenses and hes not the same guy who lead the Falcons to the playoffs I don't think. Third, why would you want to bring someone like him onto a team, especially one that is trying to have a decent image. Agree with everything else but the 2nd round selection, should bring some high round linemen in for both side in next couple of rounds, to strengthen overall line play I think. Hopefully a DT with some size to spell Stroud, and eventually take his place, or play next to him.

Cant see how was either, its not like was for a professional game, was just the minors.

Best chance of getting both value for money, and someone willing to play in Buffalo as a freeagent is most likely either LB or QB, since they know there wont be much competition for a starting job. Hopefully they go for several LB's.

He signed a 2 year contract so he will not be a free agent, and hasn't exactly looked good in the limited time he has been out there. Even if he was, why would you risk alienating you fan base, for a player who hasn't started for 4 years, and relied on athleticism when he did. Think we need a true QB, not an ex-freak who need to relearn to play the position.

Dang why are there Phily fans on the site now.

Needed to happen. I am just hoping that the eventual full time replacement goes to a system that takes advantages of the strength of players on the team and/or drafting, rather than changing to a system that will take us 3+ years to bring in new players to play.

Correction, Did the Bills remember to even pack thier offense after the 2nd game of the season? Maybe they left it behind, or lost it in the airport.

Did the Bills remember to even pack thier offense for that game?