Buddo

QBs these days seem to be being drafted almost purely on potential, and physical attributes. Allen simply has huge upside, and it probably helps that he should be a pretty intelligent guy, according to his wonderlic score. I'm a bit old school with all of this, in that if a guy cannot come in and start immediately, then realistically, he shouldn't be a first round pick. That simply doesn't appear to be part of a standard for taking QBs however. Bearing in mind that I'm certainly no expert, of the top 6 guys, the only ones who could come in and start immediately, in the right circumstances, are Rosen and Mayfield, with Jackson, oddly enough, an outlier. This is just what I have gleaned from reading stuff about them, and some limited film watching. Jackson makes the list, only due to his running ability, and the fact that the NFL can tailor an offense to make use of that immediately. Those 'top six' guys, all need work. From the top 4, based off of 'NFL readiness', you would probably put them in an order that goes Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen. And then flip it when it comes to 'NFL Upside'. Little wonder there's so much debate about it all. Tbh, I don't think that Brandt sheds any more light on the QBs than anyone else. He does say that he has no problems with Rosen as regards supposed 'attitude', at all. His final comment really is about finding a guy who is going to work as hard as Brees, after making the Mayfield/Brees comparison, but is in relation to all of the QBs.

Think of all of the supplements, much of which is in powder form, prior to being mixed. Then think about the number of guys who have claimed that there supplements were contaminated. When they test positive. When guys are actually tested, those tests are pretty good at finding small quantities of stuff within bloodstreams etc. Imho, it's simply a case of keeping yourself out of situations/places where sh1t can happen. A bit like guys being arrested at 2 a.m. in or near bars. Keep yourself away from those types of situations.

I wouldn't know about any particular gym, but I would say that if there are steroids around, then I wouldn't be going there as a professional athlete, as the chances of something getting contaminated, would rise disproportionately, and it just isn't worth the risk. Mind you, these days it might be difficult to find a gym where this sort of thing isn't happening. ;(

Anyone considered that it might be because he's making this season his last? Therefore not a lot of need for agents going forward. Just a thought, or a possibility.

I've seen it said somewhere, that there aren't that many true 'top end' talents in this draft, and not enough for a whole first round full of them. Could well be a move just to make sure they get a top tier guy with their first round pick. Fwiw, it was being said in the same article about the talent levels, that there was plenty of it of 2nd/3rd round quality, so it isn't necessarily a poor class, at all. Unfortunately I cannot for the life of me, remember where I saw this, but I think it came when I was searching for where the best positional depth was in this draft.

They did get rid of Sanbourn, so I'm surprised Kiper hasn't got this covered in his latest mock......

My understanding of things is that the Jimmy Johnson system, is no longer used as anything other than a rough guide. There's another points system that is apparently being more widely used, but I can't come up with a link atm.

In what sense do you mean 'dwarfing 1983'. Is it just on numbers picked in the first round? Or is it that they will all become successful NFL QBs? Because I can't see any reason for the title of the OP. FWIW, I don't have any particular arguments about the opinions of where, and to who the above QBs will go, I think it's a reasoned, and reasonable, analysis (or guess;) ), but I see no relationship to the '83 class being espoused.

None of them are called Williams, therefore they will all bust. This is from another thread,and courtesy of Inigo Montoya "Here is a quick synopsis of what I have learned about the QBs in this year's draft on this message board; 1. Each of the top 6 quarterbacks is the very best one for the Bills to draft 2. Each of the top 6 quarterbacks is a terrible fit for the Bills and is a guaranteed bust 3. Each of the top 6 quarterbacks, whichever is selected by the Bills, will result in some posters never watching the Buffalo Bills again 4. Each of the top 6 quarterbacks is worth trading what ever draft picks are needed in order to move up and draft them 5. Each of the top 6 quarterbacks has serious flaws and we should not waste draft picks to trade up for them, but should draft other positions instead"

Supposedly, there are only around 20 or so players with first round grades on them this draft. (lots of 2nd/3rd rounders apparently). It may be that the Cheats are simply putting themselves in position to be able to get one of those guys, if he falls far enough. Fwiw, I don't think Belicheck would have any problems at all with Rosen wanting to understand the 'why' of things. If anything, I think he would love it, as it means he gets to show how to break down tape more thoroughly. Assuming the 'why' is football related, Rosen could easily come to regret the level of detail Belicheck can supply.

I think there's a good deal of truth in the OP, but I think also, that the premise is couched poorly. 'False Rise' is simply not the best descriptor, imho. 'Additionally inflated', is where I see it. QBs have been being 'over drafted' for a good few years now. Nix, in one of his last PCs around the time of a draft, was quite open about this, and the fact that there were a couple of guys who turned out pretty decent, who he was prepared to draft with his next pick, but someone else took them a lot earlier than expected. Wilson certainly comes into that category, and iirc, Cousins did also. This is, undoubtedly, one of the better QB classes, for years, and it's quite likely that 4 guys will have 1st round grades, irrespective of where they get taken. Now, under the old system of contracts, I think you would be likely to see these guys taken closer to where they would come in a 'Big Board', with one taken top 5, one top 10, one top 20, and one top 30, but because of the premium nature of the position, it would be at the top part of each of those sections. Now, however, due to the rookie wage scale, it isn't beyond belief, that they could all go within the top 5 picks. Personally I dont see that happening, but I would be surprised if they haven't all gone by #15 at the latest. That implies a significant 'bump' in where they are being drafted, but it's still not so far out of whack to be called a 'false rise'. There have been teams prepared to take 'flyers' on raw QBs for years, and that includes jumping up into the top 10 picks to do so. (e.g. Jest and Sanchez). Generally speaking, teams aren't taking QBs at the top end of the draft, inordinately higher than they should, but they are more prepared to move earlier on a guy they like. The biggest difficulty this year, is that although there might be 4 QBs ith genuine 1st round grades, they all also have at least one red flag against them, and finding the right guy to suit your franchise, isn't going to be that easy, even assuming you are in a position to draft him.

I think that the reality is that Mayfield and Rosen, are the two guys who might start immediately. So you have to kind of pick your poison, if you intend to move up to #2 I'd guess that the difference between the two, is pretty marginal, so an awful lot of 'due dilignce' is getting done.

The comments about Darnold especially intrigued me, as they matched pretty exactly an assessment of someone on another board, who I believe has NFL experience as a scout or coach, where they say that Darnold is 'careless with the football'. And mean it in a bad way. Due to size and arm, Darnold is probably only 2nd to Allen in 'upside', yet it could take a couple of years to get him productive at an NFL level. The only team that does have the absolute luxury of letting him sit that long, behind a proven starter, would be the Giants.

I think you will find that it isn't that difficult to see if someone has lead with his helmet. Get a few players ejected early on, and they will quickly start to realize they have to do things the right way. The NFL needs to start ejecting the idiots, regularly, because it's about the only way they can actually enforce discipline in games. Fines after the events, are necessary, but do absolutely nothing to stop guys at the time. Getting rid of offenders, will often also deflate any toxic atmopsphere that may be building on the field.

You just don't do it Baddie. Too much expense and trouble, even for a QB.

That was a problem, top 10 picks and no decent QB to use them on. Makes you wonder how many other times the Bills have actually had top ten picks, in the first place, let alone the chance to use them on a decent QB. Some of the 'misses' are well documented, but most of those appear to be from outside of the top 10 picks anyway.

I think it's a legitimate question. While you would assume that a good scout, knows all positions well, somewhere, someone, has to be able to know who is going to be good or not. McDermott seems pretty well capable of identifying defensive talent that will suit him, but on Offense, who knows. You sort of feel that it's going to be slam dunk guys they pick on offense, as they don't necessarily know who the best fits might be. Hopefully Daboll has some serious input into what he's going to be working with. In response to the above poster, I've read in a few places, that there is depth in the WR class this year, just not anywhere near some of the high end guys we have seen before. Plenty of 'high floor' guys, but not many who have the huge ceiling to match. Plenty of solid 2nd/3rd round guys, but hardly any 1st round talents.

Tbh, I actually think that Foles having to come in for Wentz, made a significant difference. The bye week before their first playoff game also, which got Foles a better opportunity to get with the playbook, and for the Offensive staff to tailor stuff for him. I believe that that messed with Evil Bill's ability to know what Foles was likely to do, as he didn't have quite enough good tape on him, to get it figured out.

If he is visiting last week, does that make him a has been?

A guy who not only has prototypical size for an NFL QB, but who also has an arm that is better than that size. Other measurables are pretty good also. Iirc, he hasn't really been playing football/QB all that long, relativ to other guys. This means his bad habits could be easier coached out. I'd also say that his 'coachability', would be very high. Tbh, I've only seen a highlight reel and one game with all of his throws, but he seems to have some basic football intelligence, especially where he does realize you get rid of the football, rather than take a sack. He hasn't got so much of an arm, as a missile. I have seen him throw it without using ll the heat though. Undoubtedly accuracy is an issue, but much of it might be down to simple footwork, rather than 'couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo' type of erratic. I'm not an advocate as such, merely playing 'devil's advocate' in respect of why some might see him as a 1st round pick. Undoubtedly has the highest ceililng of any of this group of QBs, due to size and arm. Me, I'd rather pick him in the 2nd round, and sit him for two years, as I think that would be the best scenario for him. I wouldn't rule him out of being a bust even then, but if he came through, boy would you have some serious talent to utilize.

I'm pretty much with you on that one - the response was as much to do with the excessive helpings of irony being dished out by yourself. And I would never consider myself an expert.

Either that or we've seen so much bad QB play, we know exactly what it is when we see it

It could also be that there isn't much depth at the positions, in the draft. Center, is probably ok, but RT probably isn't. As regards depth in the draft.

Well, what I saw from Rudolph, was his attempts to force throws into ridiculous coverage, and I was far from impressed. Some seriously bad decision making at times. He's also pretty static, and I'd say he has an awful lot to learn about moving around in the pocket, along with being under center. There were some really nice throws in amongst it, and he's obviously got arm enough, but there are some large caveats amongst his overall play. You pretty much knew where he was going, just about every time he threw, as he locked on to his receivers. But that's not uncommon with the type of offences being run in colleges. I'd just like to see some disguise from him. Allen's arm is outrageous, but so is his inaccuracy. He also seems to think he can throw into the tightest of windows. I was moderately impressed with his mobility, and the fact that he was taking care of the football, when he ran. There was also one particular moment that I really liked, which was the 'dummy' shovel pass, that let him run for the 1st down. If he did but know it, it's a classic rugby move. I thought he showed some good sense in getting rid of the football at times, and generally some pocket awareness, or at least awareness of when the rush was coming. I wouldn't take either of them in the 1st round, as I don't think either is able to start now. Rudolph needs a year, and Allen 2. If I could pick them where I wanted, and was able to give them the time I think they need to develop, I'd probably take Allen ahead of Rudolph, as he has a seriously high ceiling, but neither would be in the 1st round. I do think that both of them could start for teams given the right coaching, system and time - and be successful. I'll get around to looking at some of the others later. Fwiw, aside from the above clips, I've watched some 'highlight' stuff on both previously.

The problem with that idea, is in knowing who is doing the evaluations. The concept being both correct and interesting, yet without knowing where anyone is getting the grades from, it's pretty difficult to make the sort of conclusions you are implying. While I realize you are saying that the grades are coming from NFL.com, my interest is as much in who is doing /giving those grades, as anything else. Just as an example, there's a lot of places where Rosen would be the top QB, and not Darnold, yet the grade given for Darnold, is way ahead of Rosen. Iirc, Mayock has said that although he had 1st round grades on a bunch of the guys this year, he had none of them rated as highly as he rated Wentz, although that was early in his evaluation process. To a point, I think the assumption that it is a good year for QBs is correct, as I think there are more guys being given a genuine 1st round grade, as opposed to being bumped up to 1st round 'status' through need. I would also say that apparently, and without looking at it in any depth, that the general feeling on the QB class in 2019, is that it is EJ and Geno bad, sadly. So if you want to grab a QB, you have way better chances of them being a success this year, than next.