dubs

Run DMB, You are 100% right. Not just on the facts, but the presentation of your arguments. There are two types of posters on this discussion thread: 1) Those who generally back Flutie and have stated actual hard facts and other supporting references to bolster their position. This flock has not used absolute or superlative statements to say what would have happened in the future either. 2) Those who generally back Johnson. Their evidence to support their positions is snark, ridicule, clouded subjective option stated as fact, and distortions or flat out mistruths (it's a synonym for a lie). Although no one in history of the world has ever been able to know the future what what would have happened if a different choice was made, they do know and have no issue letting everyone in on the secret.

I don't know that I would agree with that speculation. It wasn't impossible, but not certain either. Regardless, taking DF out at that point was lunacy. Looking back on it 14 years later, it's even more puzzling.

How does one explain the difference is records for Flutie and Johnson during the 2000 season? I know Flutie is/was a polarizing guy. What I find astounding is that now that we have the benefit of hindsight, how anyone could put those two guys in the same category. While Flutie was short and unorthodox, the team won a lot more than they lost. When Rob was in there, as prototypical as he was, the team lost, and lost a lot. It's almost like saying you'd rather roll with Blaine Gabbert than Russell Wilson. PS - revisionist history is calling the Titans the best defense in the league. They were above average. That's it.

Best statistical season of another quarterback. 16 starts, 207/368 (56.3% completion), 28 TDs, 20 INTs, 84.7 QBR. Guess who? Terry Bradshaw. I think he might have been good. Point is, you can't compare guys based solely on stats. Bottom line is the team won a lot of games with Flutie. They didn't with Rob Johnson or JP Losman.

Now that the Sabres have exorcised the Curse of Nolan, the Bills are up and need to exorcise the Curse of Flutie. Stanley Cup - 2015 Super Bowl Victory - 2015

Outside the box. I like it. If we could combine this with Inspector Gadget like extendo arms we'd be unstoppable. Plus capes. The Bills need capes and they needed it yesterday.

hahaha! It's hilarious to picture what your physical reaction to that "without the arm" comment was. Great job of personifying it through words! I do agree he seems to place the ball. Reminds me more of Trent than anyone else. I thought Fitz actually did the opposite. He wound up and threw it as hard as he could. Unfortunately his arm was so weak it really didn't matter.

This is just wrong on so many levels. In 1998 Buffalo was 7-3 w/Flutie and 3-3 w/Johnson In 1999 Buffalo was 10-5 w/Flutie and 1-1 w/Johnson In 2000 Buffalo was 4-1 w/Flutie and 4-7 w/Johnson In 1999 Buffalo's offense was above average as Mr. McBride stated above. Flutie was 10th in yards and 10th in TDs while not starting all 16 games. At some point you have to just admit that while maybe not the guy you liked for whatever reason, Flutie did get the job done. Every measurable and eye test supports this.

Few things: 1) Comparing offenses in 1999 and 2013 is night and day. Offense today is more high powered and the game is geared much more to higher scoring games. 2) Again, (and again, and again), Flutie was not an elite QB (although he did make the pro bowl in 1999). He was good for the team. To use your logic, if RJ was so good, why wasn't he starting from Day 1? 3) Did you watch the Miami playoff game? Flutie played very well and on that play you are referencing, he had virtually no chance. The blitz came off the tackle and was in the backfield before DF even finished his drop back. IMHO, the biggest issue is when the change occurred. If RJ came in halfway through the season or after the bye, then maybe it's not as much of a disruption to the team. On the final drive during the Titans game, RJ hit TWO passes. TWO. He got him in a position to win on that final drive and he deserves credit for that. What he didn't do was get them in a position to win the entire rest of the game. His mistakes directly led to 12 Tennessee points.

Flutie Flutie Flutie Flutie Flutie. Flutie, flu, tie. Flutie! Flutie, Flutie flu. Tie. Flutie.

Maybe it's your style and if so then I get it. No one knows what would have happened if Flutie played in that game. We can speculate. Most I think would agree we probably have a better chance to win the game. You don't. That's cool. But when you position things as an absolute and state speculation as fact, that's when you lose me. Also, what does Tebow have to do with the 1999 Buffalo Bills?

Re: yes he was. If you really think that you honestly have no credibility. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling. Re: they would have lost anyway Must be nice to know the unknown. What's the DOW going to end at this year? Re: I can't Neither can anyone because it's monumentally stupid.

Like I said in many posts already. I think the Bills had a formula that was successful for them. It worked pretty well the previous couple years. That year they had the best defense in the nfl and an offense that played well enough to win 11 games. At that point in the year you don't change something that was working well especially at the most critical position. In other words, I think his play was decent and fit better with the Bills.

Misinformed huh? What's the informed position? Let me guess, "I watched the second half of the 1999 season and I KNOW what would have happened!!" You are not the only one who watched football those 7 games. Give me a break. I appreciate your belief and I am not saying you are incorrect that the outcome would be the same. I am reasonable like that, I don't pretend I know what the future would hold or what would have happened. I do think its pretty reasonable for most people to think that benching your starting QB prior to a playoff game creates a TON of problems both on and off the field. Most people that is except for omnipotent posters that know what the alternative scenario would have been.

haha…that's the kind of response I was looking for when I posted this. Hilarious and honestly I would definitely be at that game if we did that. Flutie Day 2014. Ralph needs to apologize before it's too late.

Maybe Buffalo wins, maybe they don't. No one knows. Cherry picking games and turning wins into losses doesn't help your position. Basically what you are saying. Bills lost to NE (they actually won and Flutie finished the game 10-10). Bills beat Tennessee (actually, they lost). The most important aspect that you fail to recognize is that changing QBs prior to the playoffs disrupted the team chemistry and cohesion. Not whether or not Flutie was better than RJ or vice versa. The team learned how to win with Flutie in there, as evidence of their 22-9 record with him at the helm the last 2 years.

I agree. I can't say for certain Buffalo would have won that game if Flutie was in there (although I do believe they would have). What I feel pretty confident in saying though is that the controversy and distraction created by putting RJ in to start the final game and then the WC game was completely detrimental to the team and totally unnecessary. Teams just don't do that. Cohesion is an extremely important, intangible part of an NFL team. Disrupting that at the 11th hour really hurt.

Exactly! One edit: "Did" a lot worse.

Uh…we won 10 games with Flutie and secured a playoff spot. Maybe it wasn't winning the way you want it to be, but how do you not acknowledge that? For better or worse, 15 games into the year you stick with what you got. If next year you want to move on, fine, so be it. But changing the QB who got you there just prior to the playoffs is suicide, unless its injury related. It's like going to the prom with a decent looking girl and knowing you're going to get some action, then ditching her the night before the prom for the prom queen who has never put out in her life.

The original point of this post wasn't to debate whether or not Buffalo would have won if Flutie was in there. The curse statement (as noted) was kind of a joke. What was surprising to me 14 years after the fact was how bad Rob Johnson played. I think that gets lost in the memories because Buffalo was in a position to win that game and should have won, despite RJ.

Are you sure it was the right games? I think you are WAY off. Pretty much every future result and metric from those games refutes what you are saying you witnessed. Flutie played much better in the final half of that season than RJ played in the Wild Card game. Thats not saying much since Rob pretty much played a terrible game, but its different than what you are posing as the truth.

If you look at the "location" column, you'll see Bills called their final TO on the Titans' last drive. Tennessee called TO prior to the kick, so they would have had to run another play with 20 seconds and then spike the ball or run the FG team out if they wanted to run more clock.

Flutie 1999 stats (I know stats can be deceiving but I am not going back and watching every game) from games 8 - 15: Record: 6-2, 56% Completion, 10 TDs, 8 INTs, 6.9 YPA, 4-1 record on the road. I guess you could nitpick on the TD/INT ratio, but that's a pretty solid line. Certainly not bad enough to be benched just prior to the playoffs. ??? How can you say that with such certainty? And what does his size have to do with anything? I think what RJ showed us in the playoff game and afterward was that he his brain was 80% apple sauce. He was constantly holding onto the ball too long. That cost us in the Titans game.

Re: The Miami Wild Card Game: Plenty of blame to go around. What I saw at the end was DF trying to make a play and got hit. That happens multiple times a year. If Brady's fumble didn't get overturned by the tuck rule, would you be saying it was his fault? Just terrible to blame the game on Flutie, he made lots of great throws that game. Re: 1999: Flutie may have played poorly the second half of the season, but he played well enough to get the team into the playoffs with a 10-5 record. Benching your starter for the backup prior to the playoffs sends a terrible message to the team and create doubt and uncertainty. It's not like he was hurt and the team had to rally around RJ. I am not saying DF was the best QB or best guy, but defending the decision to bench him makes no sense on any level. Especially since we know the outcome and witnessed how poorly RJ played.

Maybe I am missing something, but you know what's going to happen the rest of the season? Do you steal the "Grey's Sports Almanac" from Marty McFly?