chris heff

I'd like to apologize for the gratuitous "pontification" remark. In my case it would be the pot calling the kettle. I would also like to say that I agree with you as to the attributes it requires to be a good QB. The ability to process information quickly, accuracy, and arm strength are very important. The latter two being much easier to measure than the first. There are also a lot of intangibles, leadership, fortitude and character. I don't believe data can measure the heart of an individual.

For some controversy throw in Origins of the Second World War by A.J.P. Taylor.

It is my fault. I wrote that blaming Manuel for this loss was like blaming Poland for WWII.

Do you pontificate for a living? That was the excuse for invading Poland if your looking for the blame for World War II it lies in World War I and the Treaty of Versailles. Nice use of Wikipedia though. By the way both Kaiser Wilhelm and Hitler had good YPA, arms strength, accuracy, but bad decision making. Neither could win the big one.

After my first go round with Edwards Arm, which was after the draft and before training camp, I asked him if he had ever seen Manuel play at FSU. His silence led me to conclude he had not. His opinion was based on how the opinion of others fit his own bandwidth theory. It makes his conclusion questionable. I felt that some of my responses may have been a bit harsh. So I backed off the Manuel debate. I even attempted to find common ground, on other topics. It is not my intention to come to this site to be contentious. I'm cognizant of the fact that we are all Bills Fans. That being said blaming yesterday's loss on Manuel is like blaming World War II on Poland.

You are absolutely correct, but you are trying to reason with the unreasonable. Edwards Arm had decided that Manuel was not any good prior to the draft. He determined this without, in my opinion, ever having seen him play a down of football. Trying to blame Manuel for yesterday's loss is absurd. Manuel's stat line was virtually identical to Luck's. Luck won because his defense didn't get gashed for 34 points and alleged skill players didn't turn over the ball on consecutive potential game wining drives, not because pundits believe he is polished or NFL ready. By Edwards Arm's standards there is a bunch of HOF, Super Bowl winning QBs that would not be considered elite. Starr, Namath, Dawson, Griese and probably Young. There are ten guys that won Super Bowls that he wouldn't have on his team. Bradshaw won four and I remember when he got beaten out by Joe Gilliam, should the Steelers have drafted another QB? You don't give up on a guy after eight starts and you sure as he'll don't give up on him before he even player one game. You also don't try and create blame where there is none.

That was my first thought exactly.

I love a good imaginary trade. Good job on the positions by round.

Better coaching last year. Better coaching last year.

Passive aggressive. 17 of 32 for 200 yards and 1 TD is just not getting it done. Teams don't need game manager QBs. What this team needs is Payton Manning, 22 of 35 for 403 yards and 2 TDs. The Colts need to draft a QB in the first round.

Will you give it up EJ Manuel had nothing to do with this loss. You are so hell bend on being right about your personal analytics that you can't see what is in front of you. The defense gave up more running yards to this team than they had gained all year. Manuel had the team in position to win the game twice and twice the ball was fumbled. How many touch downs should Manuel have thrown to over come the lack of effort and concentration by his teammates? Maybe Manuel should complete passes to himself, so that he can then prevent fumbling.

Kyle Williams on the field for warm ups.

Drafting a QB in the first round in consecutive drafts was virtually impossible prior to to new CBA rookie salary structure. That being said, I can't see a team doing it unless the only missing position is QB and in the second draft, when your turn comes up, the number one guy on your board is a QB that has fallen to you. It would be a guy impossible to pass on.

Best finish since Miami vs Boston College, what as that guys name again?

That I agree with.

I think there were some extenuating circumstances to the Dallas example. Not to nit pick but Aikman and Walsh were taken in the same year. Jimmy Johnson took Walsh in the supplemental, Walsh had played for him at the U. He was taken after Aikman. 1989 was also the year of the Herschel Walker trade, aside from the five players they got six draft picks. You can fill a lot of holes with all those extra picks. So to use two picks on QBs wasn't that big of a deal. So do you think the Bills are solid enough at all other positions that they can afford to use another first round pick on a QB?

So you are going to need to figure out how to work botulism into conversations for the next few days.

The example of Brees//Rivers or Brunell/ Johnson are both invalid. The concept of drafting QBs first round in consecutive years only works under the current CBA. If it weren't for the rookie salary structure it would be impossible. That being said, barring injury I still think it is a bad idea.

So this thread has now become about the wisdom of drafting QBs in the first round in consecutive years. As far as Brees and Rivers are concerned. The Chargers had all but given up on Brees. He had been replaced as the starter by Flutie. After acquiring Rivers, Brees had two really good years. Last of which he had been franchised. Brees was injured in the last game of 2005. San Diego couldn't afford to pay both Rivers and Brees. The rest is history. San Diego received no compensation. If they knew then what they know now, would they have acquired Rivers? I doubt it. To determine if a QB is indeed a franchise QB doesn't that require a considerable amount of playing time? How exactly does a team do that? Two QB systems do not work in the NFL. So you would have to trade the one with the greatest body of work. What if your wrong? Of course there may be a team willing to trade high picks or pick for a QB with a very limited number of games, but that organization would have to be dumb, desperate or both. Should Jacksonville have traded Brunell rather than Johnson?

The correct quote is"lighten up Francis".

"Truth is, none of those issues will be solved this weekend. There will be the usual whining about Toronto’s lack of tailgating freedom and how it damages the bacchanalian instincts of NFL fans; about how there is no atmosphere in the Rogers Centre and about how many tickets were discounted or comps. In the end, it will matter not one iota because commissioner Roger Goodell and his owners don’t give out letter grades for tailgating parties, and if partying’s that big an issue anyhow, Toronto has two words for NFL owners: Rob and Ford. End of discussion." From the Toronto Globe and Mail, funny.

This is the best post ever!

Are the college rules for OT better? They are entertaining.

I agree that defense has a say, but go back and watch the FSU, Florida game, the defense stunk. Cam Erving only played with Manuel for one year. Last year was his first as an offensive lineman. I was only using the example of Manuel's college record because Badobeelz supposition is that he is right because of objectivity, anyone that disagrees is wrong because of subjectivity.

And get your fact straight it was 11 players drafted, 7 were defense. On offense it was, Manuel, Thomson a 5'7" 192 pound running back, a project O lineman Watkins and Hopkins a kicker. One of those five of the first forty two, one was on offense.