SouthGeorgiaBillsFan

You are just biased, and stupid, based on many of your posts I've seen.

Tom Brady couldn't have carried last year's team. Edwards is a fine QB. You just don't know it.

Uh Mitchell already started in a SB game that his team WON genius. But yea, your opinion *is* valid.

Funny how Kawika Mitchell DID start for the SB champs but nobody listed him? Epic !@#$ing fail.

In order for the nice guy coaching mentality to be effective, it requires enforcers in pads. I think this could be a sign of good chemistry and DJ may surprise you all yet. Give it time, young padawans.

What would you classify it as genius?

I was just wondering what was so bad about SKOOBY myself. I rather liked most of his posts, and when I didn't, I certainly enjoyed ridiculing him.

I would love to add him to the roster, but I'm not insensitive to his injury situation. I wouldn't encourage him to play if he didn't want to, but obviously the guy understands the risk involved and still wishes to play - probably his passion for the game. I don't think financial security plays into this at all, surely he could work for ESPN or the NFL network once he retires if he wants to. All that being said, if he plays anywhere, might as well be here =].

Call it whatever - it was also the best possible move he could have made this off-season to immediately improve his team. He got the best guy available, period.

Around here, dog fighters typically hunt hogs to train their dogs, and I'll put a hog hunter up against a Lassie slayer any day of the weak =p. Maybe it is just southern dog fighting etiquette, but even what few people I know that are into that sort of thing would find it appalling to fight them against dogs off the street. Obviously none of us knows really what Vick was into, but I've always had the sense that the media of course was blowing it way out of proportion. The reason: so that we will sit around and debate it on forums like this, rather than just let it die like it should. So I think he was involved in a typical dog fighting ring (which as surprising as it is to some of you, is actually quite commonplace), and I am simply stating that based on what evidence there is, his operation doesn't seem to be any worse than any other dog fighting operation. Is it deplorable behavior? Well, in my opinion, not really. I understand why some people have such an issue with it, and I don't and wouldn't engage in it myself - but to sit here and say we can deal with the weapons charges and domestic violence cases of other athletes but cannot tolerate MV, seems hypocritical. I also would venture to say that those who feel that way (and I'm not including you in that category Dean, just got onto this schpeel while responding to your post, sorry) need to evaluate their priorities. Crimes against human beings, in my estimation, are far far worse than crimes against dogs. I'm not sure whether I feel that way because I place too little value on the life of animals or because I place too much value on the life of other humans - I'll let my detractors decide that. @Booster So they found other species on the premises but that does not suffice as evidence that those other dogs were being thrown into the ring. Maybe I'm stretching a little to make my point here, but you are stretching a lot to perpetuate your accusation that Vick through Lassie into the ring. It is a simple logical fallacy really. You just cannot say "Vick fought family dogs, and there were dogs on the premises that were not pit bulls, therefore Vick fought dogs that were not pit bulls," any more than I can say "Vick only fought pit bulls, and since there were other breeds of dog on the premises besides pit bulls, Vick obviously must not have fought those dogs." All we can say is that the only documentation of actual fighting occurred between pit bulls - and if you Google search "Michael Vick's Dogs" you will see page after page of him in what appears to be affectionate poses with his pits, which I presume is what the "Family Dogs" were - amongst pictures of battered and bloody dogs too, which also were all pits. There are NO pictures of any other breed anywhere on Google, so you can read into that however you like since you apparently are doing that anyway. You have to keep in mind that all journalism is subjective and I am very suspicious of how they worded these articles and that they may be trying to make it seem more heinous than it actually was. I find it hard to believe that anybody would throw a lab into a cage with a pit bull - there simply is not any compelling reason to do so, no matter what angle you see it from. If you are trying to argue that MV is just a degenerate sociopath with no value for life, then maybe throwing lesser breeds into a cage with pits might make a little more sense. But to my eye (which I try to keep as objective as possible), he was in it to make money and have fun, neither of which could be satisfied for a typical person by watching one dog viciously slaughter another. The whole point of dog fighting is the same as boxing or football - you want to see a competitive contest - and stacking the deck really makes no sense unless you have money wagered on the match. In this particular case, I'd like to know who would wager money on Lassie in this situation, enough of it that would make it profitable to actually have Lassie in the ring. Or are you all just content to read about it on espn.com and formulate your opinion that MV actually is a degenerate sociopath, without any substantiated evidence to suggest as much?

In any link that you showed me, I did not see any mention of any other breed of dog than a pit bull. Every search I've performed since you brought to my attention this issue of Vick fighting family dogs, has yielded only pit bulls. No mention of any other breed, anywhere. In fact, this is the only mention I saw of the breed of these so called family dogs: "Vick - who was sentenced to 23 months in federal prison last Dec.10 for his role in bankrolling a dogfighting operation called "Bad Newz Kennels" on his Surry County (Va.) property and for killing some of the underperforming dogs - placed family pet dogs in the fighting ring as trained pit bulls and "caused major injuries" to the pets, according to a 17-page Department of Agriculture report released Friday." (cite:http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2008/11/22/2008-11-22_report_michael_vick_threw_untrained_fami.html) That little excerpt leads me to believe that the family dogs were "untrained pit bulls". I saw no mention of any other breed anywhere in either article that you linked, or anywhere else on TV or the net for that matter. Not to mention - other than Rotweilers, I've never heard of anyone fighting any breed of dog beside a pit bull. It makes sense that if you want to gamble on dog fighting, you acquire the most vicious dogs possible. Nobody would place bets on Lassie, therefore there would be no incentive to make Lassie fight.

The "family dog" you are referring to here would have torn Lassie's throat out.

I can't disagree with you at all. But it incenses me for people to sit here and pretend Vick was not a good and effective player because they personally don't like him, so I have to point out that he actually was successful, and as it stands, has more pluses to list on his resume than does Matt Ryan, although I suspect Ryan will far exceed that eventually. Probably not going to happen this year, however. I expect some fall off from last year. If not, Ryan will be up there with any quarterback in the league IMO considering how well he has handled the learning curve of the pro game.

I think you are unsure of what the word integrity means. Integrity is not the practice of continuing to pass sanctimonious and unfounded judgment against a man that, whom according to the law and a jury of his peers, has served his punishment for his crime. Integrity does not mean pretending that you're high and mighty and never done anything worse that fight dogs against each other, because I'm positive most of us have. And integrity is not pretending that you speak for the majority of Bills fans. I predict that less than 1% of season ticket holders will cancel their tickets. After all, you are the same bunch of clowns who swore to do the same if they retained DJ...and yet...do you have season tickets? Get real.

We will see what the Falcon's record is at the end of the season. We will see how often Matt Ryan finds Roddy White now that he's got big Tony to look for. Keep in mind, as of yet, Matt Ryan, for all his attention, has yet to surpass anything Vick did for the Falcons. Vick has won a playoff game, and made the Pro Bowl twice, neither of which Ryan can yet claim (I am almost certain that will change before his career ends though) And once again, I stated that Vick was a factor in the tremendous success of the RUNNING GAME, which yes, was actually opened up because of Vick's ability to scramble and the conundrum that places on a defense. My point is it would be so nice to have that conundrum to rely upon should TE get injured. It would be much nicer than say...the conundrum Ryan Fitzpatrick will place on the Bills should he ever need to enter the game.

Thanks for the response, sorry I missed it originally. So perhaps they would have lived otherwise - those specific dogs anyway, if not for MV's dog fighting operation. Concession granted, on that point. I still find it horribly irresponsible that people would deem a pit bull a suitable family pet - I've known several people who have been attacked by their own, supposedly non-violent, pit bulls. A guy I worked and his wife were mauled by his three pit bulls, and he claims they had never so much as snapped at anyone. It actually led to his divorce, as his wife had repeatedly stated that she was uncomfortable having the dogs running around in the yard prior to the attack. My cousin was attacked by my uncle's pit bull when she was four and still bears a scar on her face, and he was the epitome of the "family dog" - had never had a single aggressive behavior before that. I myself was attacked by my neighbors pit, that I petted and played with every day. The dog damn near castrated me: I had two holes in my scrotum(luckily he only caught the skin and didn't get any tissue), one in my leg, and the other in my pinky knuckle where I had jammed it into his maw. I hate to think what would have happened if not for my quick reflexes They are an unpredictable breed, which isn't uncommon for dogs. The main difference between a pit bull and a lab is that a lab doesn't have throat rending jaw power. But in MV's case, it wasn't like he was pitting Lassie against Old Yeller in a match to the death All that being said, I still think this is really a non-issue. The guy fought some pit bulls, which are a species of dog that has been bred to fight and kill for centuries. I fail to see what the big deal is here. I understand it is violent for the sake of entertainment, but so is MMA, and football for that matter. I mean at least he wasn't fighting gladiators against each other to the death for the enjoyment of the masses. I understand that it hurts the dogs - but in reality, dogs fight anyway of their own accord, especially pit bulls, and hurt each other, all the time - even family dogs. I personally don't see any problem with placing a wager on that from time to time. But even if I did, I still feel like MV's punishment was more than adequate for his crime, and as long as he doesn't engage in that behavior again, I don't see how anyone has the right to continue holding it against him. If he did engage in dog fighting again, I personally would not care, but at the same time I wouldn't try to convince anyone else the Bills should consider signing him either. All I'm saying is that the guy should get another chance to be an athlete. After all, Mike Tyson did, and the Bills could certainly benefit from having him on the roster (Vick, not Tyson ).

I didn't see the evidence, but you can gladly post it here again and I will look at it. But if you are suggesting he was fighting poodles, then I'd have to say you are the one misrepresenting the facts. Every article I've read mentions only one breed of dogs - pit bulls. So uh..I'm not sure what your saying but please feel free to resubmit whatever post I missed that you are referring to (I actually looked back through this thread and couldn't find anything - perhaps I just overlooked it?) For the record, a google search of "Michael Vick Dogs" yields page after page of pictures of different dogs - every one of which is a pit bull. Perhaps I missed the boat but I'm going to need some conclusive evidence otherwise before I'll grant that, so again, please resubmit your evidence if you don't mind.

In the context of my post it was clearly evident that I was referring to the tremendous success of their running game. I like how you Vick haters conveniently leave out any context that gives meaning contrary to your argument. As far as his relatively low INTs, it seems his receivers were catching more of his "errant throws" for touchdowns than defenders were intercepting, which last I checked, is a good thing. And for the record, Vick's Rookie season was 2001 and the Falcons finished 7-9. They followed that with 9-6-1 and 5-11 in 02 & 03, before finally breaking through in 04 with an 11-5 mark. So I guess that was your credibility I just heard swirling down the toilet. Next please.

When did my argument change? Can you quote my words where I stated Vick should be our starting QB? I considered it to be obvious that ANY team would only consider him to be a backup this year, and I thought everyone else did as well. I still flat out stated that Vick makes the Bills better, and I hold to that, because our backup situation is one of our biggest flaws as a team. So there is no contradiction there. I have not changed any of my arguments, I have simply thrown in new arguments to debunk your continuing litany of horse sh--. I NEVER suggested that the QB wins games, you did. I simply stated Vick would make us better, and to that I hold. The only response that would be acceptable and that I would not have to respond to would be "Yes, Mr. SouthGeorgiaBillsFan, your knowledge and understanding of the dynamics of the game far exceeds my own, and therefore I will not pollute this thread with my nonsense any longer." There is of course option B, which is you provide an argument with merit. But I really don't see that as forthcoming, so...

No, the fact that they lead the league in rushing in multiple seasons defines dominating. I said he was decent, not good. Never once have I suggested Vick should start. He would make the Bills more dangerous by adding depth. There is little doubt in my mind with TE in the game, the Bills are going to be hard to stop. The pitfall is that behind a weak O-line, if TE gets injured, the season is ruined. With Vick, the Bills would have a legitimate backup who can still win, thus making them more dangerous. Your presumptions are underwhelming. If we can sign one of those guys as a backup QB, I'll never suggest we sign MV again. Dude do you realize that you are making an ass out of yourself here? Let me show you overall team defense during the 2001-2006 seasons vs the Falcons records in those seasons, and we can let the other people on the forum decide where the causation lies: YEAR Team Defense Rank Record 2001 30 7-9 2002 19 9-6 2003 32 5-11 2004 14 11-5 2005 22 8-8 2006 22 7-9 In an amazing surprise, it appears that the Falcons team defense correlates to their record for each season to a far greater extent than does MVs performance, which was pretty much as consistent as steel. Holy sh--, I think I debunked you again. Decent does not mean Pro-bowl. And there are many other dynamics that affect a team's W/L record, but I wouldn't expect the likes of you to be sensitive to that. I suggest if you don't want to be called an idiot, don't submit posts to forums that make you look like an idiot. And whenever you are trying to convince someone of the merits of your perspective, subject-verb agreement is ALWAYS important.

Wait isn't that the same thing they said about T.O.? You guys need to come up with a better argument. If you want the Bills to remain in Buffalo, you should be open to anything that makes the team better, and forget about "baggage". The Patriots have the luxury of worrying about baggage, not the Bills, and ironically the Patriots don't worry about it. That seems weird, considering their wealth of SB victories.

The word tremendous was used to describe the Falcons rushing attack. I suggest you work on your reading comprehension some, as the Falcons had the most dominating rushing attack of any team during Vick's tenure. Also, I never stated that Vick was the next coming of Joe Montana. I said his passing was *decent*, which it was. There are many QBs in the NFL who cannot pass with anywhere near the proficiency of Mike Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick being a very very good example. When coupled with the way his footwork opens up the field, it moves the chains. He has a strong arm that can get the ball down field (which should be a plus when considering our receiving corps), and he is not an easy man to sack, which is definitely a plus behind our O-line. Just to further debunk your nonsensical post, let me throw you some Ryan Fitzpatrick career stats: Fitzpatrick CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT RAT 297 507 2682 58.6 5.29 79 12 17 66.9 Vick 930 1730 11505 53.8 6.7 71 52 75.7 Let's take a look at a few key statistics here for a pure pocket passer and disregard Vick's mobility for the time being. He has a lower completion percentage, but a higher YPA, signifying that he is completing more passes down field. His TD:INT ratio is vastly superior to Fitzpatrick. His passer rating is substantially higher (to give proper perspective, Derrick Anderson was 66.5 last year; Carson Palmer was 69; Mark Bulger was 71.4; Matt Hasselbeck was 58.7). That is four NFL teams whose starters (and stereotypical "pocket" passers) were inferior just in passing rating, which does not reflect the yardage Vick gains on the ground. And you don't think that his passing ability out of the backup slot would qualify as decent? Need I really look up the passer ratings of other backup QBs in the NFL to further thoroughly debunk your baseless post? I should hope not. Just for fun, I looked up JP Losman's career passer rating which clocks in just under MV at 75.6. Huh. Also, let's compare the Falcons records during Vick's tenure to the Bills records during the same period: Bills Falcons 2001 3-13 7-9 2002 8-8 9-6 2003 6-10 5-11 2004 9-7 11-5 2005 5-11 8-8 2006 7-9 7-9 Then you throw in MV's average of 643 rushing yards per season (higher than some starting TBs), and it becomes a no-brainer. Also, Roddy White played with MV in only his first two seasons in the NFL - 2005 & 2006 - during that time are you saying he was a premier receiver? That would be a flagrantly unsubstantiated statement. Other than to prove you are not the only idiot who can selectively quote stats to make a point, I think I have also shown your entire argument to be biased and flawed BS. Also, your subject-verb agreement needs work: Thanks again for playing. Ciao.

Exactly what would that assumption be based on? Do you think Jon Runyan formulates his opinions after watching sportscenter? God oh God please let us sign him. I can't think of another player we could realistically dream about that would be better suited to man the position for us this year. He brings everything to the table that we lack now and could make us rather formidable. While I don't see him making a transition to LT, I can easily see him manning the RT spot with little or no blocking help, much the same way as JP did on the left side, allowing us to utilize more TE and RB support over there. Would be a huge acquisition.

Or maybe you just don't want to accept the fact that the Bills have not been a more talented team than 7-9, even when the rest of the sports world easily grasps that rather simple concept.

I would rather switch rosters with the Titans than switch coaches.