SouthGeorgiaBillsFan

I thought it looked like after the initial hit he was out cold on his feet. That would certainly make a lot more sense than "he was fighting for extra yards."

I think he should just set about a dozen bear traps in his yard and call it a day.

No. It looked like a complete pass to me. He clearly had possession when the ball touched the ground. I wanted to believe it was incomplete, but I didn't.

I was absolutely amazed at how awesome the offensive line played. They abused Vince Wilfork all night long. If we get that kind of play consistently *and* can limit the mental mistakes (which IMO can be entirely attributed to lack of experience) then I think even the Patriots are going to have a hard time putting up more points than the Bills. We already knew we had probably the best corps of backs and receivers in the NFL. Trent Edwards is a poised and precise QB who can read a defense and exploit holes in the coverage. And now it looks like our offensive line is mean, aggressive, and quite capable in both run blocking and pass protection - with PLENTY of room to grow. Oh yea and I don't have a single complaint about our defense and/or coaching. Everything looked top notch this week. Yea the loss hurts, but when was the last time you could honestly say that losing to the Patriots was a fluke? The streak will fall at the Ralph. Go Bills.

Don't bother responding to Alphadawg. He thinks that if you get burned you can just run off of one side of the screen and appear back on the other side like you could on the old Atari football game... The NFC pro bowl team would not be able to defend against it. And there was absolutely nothing wrong with the system. You have to understand that Tom Brady and his offense are not stoppable consistently. They are too good. You have to make them use 15 play drives to score, because the more plays they have to run, the more likely they are to make a mistake. That is what the Bills did, and frankly it surprises me how many of you seem to have forgotten that we had the Pats bent over a barrel taking up the 455 until a fluke fumble by a single player cost us the game.

Against the Patriots you have to pick your poison. You cannot defend against the big play and take away the short stuff. They have too many weapons and too good of a QB. It simply cannot be done. You cannot shut down the entire field against most teams in the NFL, but that is especially true against the Pats. You have to make them take 3-7 yard gains all the way down the field and hope that someone on their team screws up during that time so you can capitalize with a turnover or sack. That being said, the Bills defended the Pats as well as anyone I've seen while Brady was playing in a long time, other than of course the Giants, who had the luxury of the meanest pass rush in the NFL. You really should not be complaining at all about our defense. They played so far above expectations that it is not even funny. Any other team in the league I think would have had less than 200 total yards that game. Maybe the Colts could have worked it effectively because Peyton can make those reads just as well if not better than Tom Brady, but he does not have the weaponry to force us into soft coverage so the point is probably moot. Anyway, there was nothing on defense that needs to be fixed, other than a missed open field tackle or two, which happens to every team, no matter how good they are. It isn't like it was a chronic problem as some people suggest. Some people just don't understand the dynamics of the game.

Not very many. I remember it happening one time each against Welker and Faulk.

Trent was standing in the pocket for 3-4 seconds, stepping up, and throwing. That is good pass protection.

Thank you Timba. The whole reason that I started this thread was because that straightforward and obvious logic was not enough for these "Bills fans" to acknowledge Trent's superior performance. The disturbing question is why do they feel that way? I remember on the last drive Trent made a nice completion for 19 yards before being sacked twice, thanks to Demetrius Bell being swallowed whole by the pass rush. It is also much more difficult to throw down field against a prevent defense with time running out than it is to throw from the opposing teams 30 yard line with plenty of time to still run the ball remaining. IMO You can hardly lay that on him.

On each completion Trent averaged over 14 yards, compared to Brady's 9+ yards per completion. The discrepancy is even greater there. Oh I notice how you edited out your reference to yards per completion. What happened...you checked that stat and realized that your stupidity was evident even to yourself on that one? And once again [READ THIS IDIOT]-->I MADE THIS COMPARISON AS A REBUTTAL OF THE ARGUMENT THAT TOM BRADY OUTPLAYED TRENT EDWARDS BASED ON HIS GREATER YARDAGE TOTAL<--[READ THIS IDIOT]. You can't. That would be PREDICTIVE analysis, not COMPARATIVE analysis. How many times do you need things broken down for you? Are you utterly incapable of comprehension, or just so obstinate that you prefer sounding stupid to admitting your perspective could be flawed? How many times are you going to ask the same question in spite of the fact I have continually provided lucid, comprehensive, and concise answers?? Do you understand at all the difference between prediction and comparison? WEO give it up man. Even I had to chuckle at what you would think when you read the answer to that....the company I work for makes bullet proof vests for the military.

Why oh why would being caught off guard by such a remedial "trick" ever be considered a function of the coaching staff? Should NFL players *really* need to be told to "watch out for a quick snap?" COME ON!

Do you understand the concept that the amount of yards gained is ALWAYS a function of the amount of plays run, therefore if you want to make a comparative analysis of performances based on the amount of yards gained, you must either extrapolate the statistics available to the same number of plays run, or you can simply find the average yards per play run. Both methods are doing the exact same thing - deriving a number that is meaningless in that it doesn't actually represent anything that happened on the field in order to compare sets of data that are not equal. For example, Tom Brady didn't pass for 7.1 yards on every attempt. But I don't hear anyone complaining that the 7.1 yards per attempt is an invalid statistic. But since nobody seems to care that Trent's 8.5 yards per attempt was substantially better than 7.1 yards per attempt, I converted the EXACT same numbers into what the yardage would have been at the same number of plays. If you cannot understand that this is a perfectly legitimate technique for comparative analysis, then don't comment on it. I have stated this over and over again, but you are too dumb to understand it. This is not predictive analysis. If it was, then it would be legitimate to argue that my logic is flawed. There is a difference in predictive and comparative analysis, however. I am a trained and experienced engineer that gets PAID to perform these kinds of analysis on a daily basis. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

I'm just curious what you would have had DJ do differently....maybe if he just told him one more time to hold on to the ball Leodis would have realized that there MUST be a good reason to not fumble.... Man I saw the look of "WTF do I do now?" on BB's face all night. That happened to be the only facial expression I give two ***** about. I don't recall BB ever looking that rattled or at a loss.

I know what you did and why you did it. I figured as much. When it became apparent that you wanted to bust my balls, I wanted to diffuse your ball busting potency, and so I came up with my little schpeal about you searching through my posts. So that makes us even. My chest is very puffy. I try not to let it be obvious, but it never fails, once you insult my intelligence, I am more than happy to flame and troll you into oblivion. Dude I have no problem whatsoever with you, just to be clear. I hope you don't take offense to my style of forum posting. If you do - oh well, you aren't the first and probably won't be the last to feel that way. But there is a great deal of ... well stupidity that gets perpetuated on this board on a daily basis, and I for one get tired of seeing it. Thus, I flame. It is the only thing that mitigates my frustration at the nonsensical posts I read here so frequently, and so I am unapologetic. What really perturbs me is the way people sit around on forums and regurgitate the same tired crap they watched on TV last night as if it was their own original thoughts. At least I come up with my own ideas and defend them accordingly. I am so tired of watching Bills fans talk about how we suck (when we actually for once don't) because they saw it on ESPN. I am tired of people being too brainwashed to realize we have something really good going here. And I am tired of being insulted by unthinking marionettes that are utterly incapable of posting an original thought. In this case I was insulted for suggesting that Trent Edwards had a better performance than Tom Brady, and honestly, they way I explained it throughout this thread, there is nothing wrong with my logic. Why are Bills fans incapable of believing that we have a star player in the making? The only answer to that question that makes any sense to me is because they formulate their opinions based on ESPN commentary.

I wouldn't take it as that. I am conceding that my line of reasoning is simply beyond you, because if you think Tom Brady was throwing down field frequently you clearly were not watching the same game that I watched. You can't just make up scenarios to support you position and the expect me to offer a valid rebuttal. Basically, if you offer even a shred of valid logic, even if it is smothered in BS, I will make a rebuttal. But when you try to make a point based on a scenario that never happened, then I don't even bother trying to offer a valid response. And for the record, my insults to the intelligence of other members of this forum are almost always in response to insults to my own. The exception is Alphadawg, whom I insult at every opportunity just because of the unending litany of BS that spews forth from his keyboard. WEO and yourself and growing dangerously close to flame-on-sight status.

While you were scrolling through god knows how many lines and posts of ranting and raving looking for that one opportunity to bust my balls, you should have noticed that my usage of the word has been correct repeatedly, over and over, throughout this thread and many others. Therefore you can safely assume that it was in fact a typo caused by trying to respond in haste and then missing it as I proofread. But kudos to you on wasting whatever amount of time it was that it took you to find that. Was it as satisfying as you imagined it would be?

I have thought that as well since the Cowboys game on MNF. I also have believed that Trent's lack of success thus far is in no way due to lack of ability, but due to lack of talent surrounding him. Trent Edwards is a great QB - you mark my words (well dog actually it appears you've marked my words on your own long ago) but everyone else mark them now: Trent is going to the pro bowl this year, without a doubt.

I am convinced that you did not actually watch the game. The only other option is that you utterly lack any ability to comprehend or even remember what you watched. So I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are merely pretending you watched it. You also clearly do not understand the concept that our cover 2 defense is not the same as the Pats double coverage man to man on the outside...and thus the best option will be thrown to different players in different positions. As the fundamental philosophy was the same (neither team wanted to let the other beat them deep), the result was similar in that both QBs took the short easy stuff that was available rather than make ill-advised passes into coverage, but as the defense itself was different, it resulted in different receivers being the best viable option on a given play.

Actually I was attempting to debunk the idea that Tom Brady had a better performance based solely on his stat line (since that was the only argument anyone could provide to support that position) by using my extrapolation to illustrate just how ridiculous it was to say "well Tom Brady had more yards so his performance was better." It was a fair extrapolation, as far as it goes. People cannot look at Trent's numbers and realize that they were more impressive than Brady's numbers due to the discrepancy in passing yardage. In most other statistical categories (except completion % which is irrelevant because even with a lower % Trent still achieved a higher YPA - you can argue it was due to screens and runs after the catch, but that is also how most of Brady's yardage was accumulated as well, so that point is moot), Trent was clearly superior. So it was necessary to demonstrate what his numbers meant versus Tom Brady's numbers, and to do that required the extrapolation that I performed. I mean really it makes perfect sense. If Tom Brady played better than Trent Edwards, *and* Tom Brady threw twice as many passes as Trent Edwards, then why did only have only the same number of TDs as Trent Edwards or substantially less yards per completion? Why were his yards per attempt lower, despite completing 10% more of his passes? Because he was not getting the ball into open space nearly as effectively as Trent was. My extrapolation clearly and soundly supports this perspective. It was a valid extrapolation because the point was not to suggest or predict what Trent's numbers would actually look like after 53 attempts, but to illustrate what they would look like had he actually posted identical numbers over the same number of attempts that Tom Brady had for the purpose of comparative analysis. I cannot help anyone understand this concept any better if you cannot recognize that difference in the purpose of my original post. Also, each stat individually was extrapolated in linear fashion, so I just cannot agree with your argument against its validity, although I do respect that you have enough understanding of how it works to post a valid response. I respect your thoughts on it as they were lucid and logical. I expect that you can at least grant there is merit to what I am saying. It isn't that I'm joking in my original post, but yea I think you do understand the context of where I am coming from in order to try and make my point.

Eh we all make typos from time to time. Are you really going to make the argument that is a function of intellect?

If they double team TO and Lee there is no sense in trying to get them into the game. With that kind of commitment to shutting down those two guys there are going to be holes all over the defense. There was nothing wrong with exploiting those holes as the Bills did continually on Monday night. Throw the ball to the open receiver. That is what all the great QBs do. If you can run TO and Lee down the field every play and take 4 DBs out of the defensive scheme underneath, then you can pick apart a defense without either man ever touching the ball. Plus rather than throwing lower percentage passes that are more likely to be intercepted, you get to chew up the D with higher percentage, safer passes. I'm not sure why this is even an issue for some people. Wait - yes I am. Because that is what they said on ESPN right?

I was blessed through no cause of my own.

I understand that. But the argument is not that the offense as a whole was more effective than NE - but that Trent Edwards played better than Brady. The purpose of the extrapolation is not to suggest that had he had 53 plays his stats would have been what I posted - as he obviously could have performed better or worse on those extra plays. The purpose is to provide a comparable context in which the QBs can be evaluated fairly based on their stat line, since the predominant argument against my point that TE was better was to quote the game statistics. You can say Tom Brady had more opportunities to throw because their offense was more successful. I say he got more opportunities to throw because their running game was substantially less successful. Really it can go back and forth like that, hence the reason I devised a way to measure their stats fairly based upon the number of attempts each received. Each team had 4 drives that failed to produce points. So it is hard to say definitively that the Pats offense was more successful. You take away drives that the Bills shot themselves in the foot and/or that fluke fumble and you likely would see clearly and definitively that the Bills offense and in particular Trent Edwards was simply more effective.

Moronic? WEO coming from you that means absolutely nothing. The extrapolation serves only to demonstrate that Trent's actual stat line was considerably better than Brady's. He out played him period. Brady was the recipient of a mind-bogglingly lucky play that put him in position to win the game and he took advantage because he is a great QB. That fact has absolutely zero bearing on how good of a game Trent played, and that you people keep suggesting such is insulting to intelligence. You can ridicule all you want but the fact remains you keep flaming me for stating that Trent had the better game and providing evidence to support that claim. The collective intelligence of this forum is exceedingly low. WEO you did not help that at all by deciding to post here. Time and again I have provided solid mathematical evidence, air tight logic, and objective reason supporting my position and all the detractors have provided are insults to my intelligence and repeated use of the same BS to support a position that quite frankly I cannot understand why you would want to defend. You mother !@#$ers WANT Trent Edwards and the Bills to fail so badly just so that you can be "correct" that you are blinded to the simple truth that he outplayed the best QB in the league to start the season. So honestly you can all kiss my ass. I was trying to start a thread here that would give us something good to talk about for a change and I am sick of you brainless !@#$s using your underdeveloped swiss cheese reasoning to try and bring me and my team down. !@#$ you all very much. I can assure you that you are all in fact exceedingly dumb because you clearly are basing your positions on the BS jargon ESPN continues to spew out even while you are so mind numbingly oblivious to the fact that those same "analyst" were on the verge of tears literally when Trent threw that last TD and put us up by 11. Learn to think for yourselves and stop thinking that watching sportscenter or any other ESPN crap makes you "knowledgeable". The whole point of this extrapolation was to provide an argument against the logic that Brady's stat line was better - I am saying that it was not better, just bigger because he had more plays (thanks to drive ending penalties and dropped passes that honestly had nothing whatsoever to do with Trent). So to make that case, I show you what Trent's numbers would look like if projected across the same number of plays. I don't understand how you guys are missing the very short neural synapses required to allow one to comprehend this form of logic, but in considering how STUPID so many of you detractors are, and that is the only word for it, especially for WEO and Alphadawg, I can hardly say that I am surprised. You can say "Brady made the drive at the end of the game yadda yadda...." but without a fluke fumble that still falls short BECAUSE Trent's engineered a drive right before that which stuck in right in the Patriots eye. If not for a fluke fumble Brady's drive was meaningless. So really by every barometer that you dumb ***** are using to gauge Brady's game, Trent was simply better. But I'm the goob right? Get real.

Alphadawg you like to pretend you know so much, but you clearly don't have any idea what a screen is. You preach about people's Madden knowledge and it is more than obvious that you suffer from this because you think that a short dump off to a RB is a screen. Let me explain it for you: a screen is where you *deliberately* do not block certain members of the defensive front, and it is designed to exploit blitzing. WR screens exploit corner blitzes, and RB screens exploit LB blitzes. Teams typically only Blitz when their defensive line is not producing pressure by itself (this is why blitzing from 3-4 packages is so much more common), thus it requires consistent and productive passing offense to set up a screen effectively. You have no knowledge of the game, and thus you get flamed every time you sit here and post judiciously as if you are some guru. You are an embarrassment to the Bills and this forum. Please stop posting forever.